1/10th Lame?

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Rollin

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A horse I particularly want to buy had slight hind limb lameness on vetting. After a month of rest, vet reports still 1/10th lame on one hind foot, not in a straight line, just when lunged.

I am quite nervous about slight lameness as we plan to compete this horse. This horse fine on flexion test but reacted to hoof test and was thought to have a bruised heel.

On the other hand I am quite a risk taker when it comes to buying horses. Our best brood mare was bought for a song because she had juvenille arthritis in her hind fetlock. Her first foal was one of only three stallions approved for the stud book out of 13 presented to an international jury!!!
 
If it's a bruised heel it will be right in a week or so, not a month. I wouldn't touch it as a competition horse until I see it sound and stay sound in work. There's a world of difference between an unsound brood mare and an unsound competition horse! I hope for the sake of people who breed from your stallion that juvenile arthritis is not hereditary?
 
cptrayes said:
If it's a bruised heel it will be right in a week or so, not a month. I wouldn't touch it as a competition horse until I see it sound and stay sound in work. There's a world of difference between an unsound brood mare and an unsound competition horse! I hope for the sake of people who breed from your stallion that juvenile arthritis is not hereditary?
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No it is not hereditary, most common cause is joint ill in a foal. We had the mare x-rayed and two vets opinions before we purchased and bred from her!!

Actually, the vet who vetted this horse told me that a month is not long for a bruised heel or sole it would not be sound in a week, which is why he recommended a period of rest.
 
In view of your comment that a bruise, would heal in a week, contrary to the vets advise, I did a quick trawl through the internet. Various comments from 4-6 weeks to several months.
 
Well my personal experience is that foot bruises of all kinds, if treated with cold and rest resolve in days. Why would it take weeks? The only reason I could see why it would take weeks would be if the bone inside the foot was bruised, and if that was the case then I'd be asking serious questions about how the feet are so weak that a bruise that bad was caused, and I certainly wouldn't buy it to compete on.

The horse has already had 4 weeks. That's one hell of a bruise!
 
Thank you for your reply. You obviously have plenty of experience. I have never had a horse with a bruised sole or heel, (13 here at the moment) so did not know what to expect. I have to be guided by the vet's comments.
 
I'm no foot expert but my mare has bruised soles at the moment, on vets advice we have just done two weeks box rest and have been advised to start another two weeks with limited turnout on a surface and walking in hand. The vet is pleased with this progress so based purely upon this I would say 4 weeks is not too long for it to be just a bruise.

You could always get x-rays to eliminate anything more sinister.
 
Kat the question for me with your horse is not whether four weeks would be a good or bad length of time to recover but what on earth is wrong with her feet that they are so weak that she was able to bruise them so badly? This is what would concern me about the OP and whether s/he buys the horse. It simply isn't normal for a horse to bruise its feet like that. Of course you will do whatever is needed to get your horse right, but if I were the OP I'd think long and hard before buying one that had such a bad bruise that it took well over a month to recover unless I knew exactly how it was caused.
 
Rollin said:
Thank you for your reply. You obviously have plenty of experience. I have never had a horse with a bruised sole or heel, (13 here at the moment) so did not know what to expect. I have to be guided by the vet's comments.
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I hunt Rollin, and in the heat of the chase it is normal for us to storm up tracks made of hardcore with bits of broken brick, concrete or even concrete reinforcing rods sticking out of it. Over many seasons, you'll sometimes get a bruise, but I've never had one keep a horse off work for a whole month, not even when a piece of angle iron punched a hole straight through the horse's sole.
 
I have to agree with cptrayes, I've had horses with the odd bruise over the years and a week out of work would count as a bad one. After 4 weeks you have to think it's either a bruised pedal bone or something else all together.
 
I have little experience re bruises but I do know that a livery we had on our yard a few years ago failed the vet on 1/10 lameness with no obvious cause. They bought him any way, for a much cheaper price, and he went on to win lots - eventing. Sometimes the gamble is worth it, sometimes not - depends maybe on the price?
 
cptrayes said:
Kat the question for me with your horse is not whether four weeks would be a good or bad length of time to recover but what on earth is wrong with her feet that they are so weak that she was able to bruise them so badly? This is what would concern me about the OP and whether s/he buys the horse. It simply isn't normal for a horse to bruise its feet like that. Of course you will do whatever is needed to get your horse right, but if I were the OP I'd think long and hard before buying one that had such a bad bruise that it took well over a month to recover unless I knew exactly how it was caused.
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Fair enough, as I said I'm no expert just passing on an experience.

As regards my horse, I haven't a clue, the vet simply says she has naturally thin soles. But she's been working sound for the 18 months I have had her shod only in front and this is the first time we've had a lame step from her, even when she's lost shoes so it is a bit of a mystery. I'd love to know what caused her to bruise now, but I can't pin point anything so I can only come to the conclusion that it was a combination of factors which happened to hit her at the same time - we have a couple of others on the yard with foot issues at the moment so ground/grass at the moment could well be a factor.
 
jules9203 said:
I have little experience re bruises but I do know that a livery we had on our yard a few years ago failed the vet on 1/10 lameness with no obvious cause. They bought him any way, for a much cheaper price, and he went on to win lots - eventing. Sometimes the gamble is worth it, sometimes not - depends maybe on the price?
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The price is quite fair and we know the vendor very well. I asked about x-rays but the vet did not think it necessary. The horse is only lame on circle and reacted to a hoof test but flexion did not make the condition any worse.

If this horse had been vetted in France it would have been passed sound!!!
 
cptrayes said:
I hunt Rollin, and in the heat of the chase it is normal for us to storm up tracks made of hardcore with bits of broken brick, concrete or even concrete reinforcing rods sticking out of it. Over many seasons, you'll sometimes get a bruise, but I've never had one keep a horse off work for a whole month, not even when a piece of angle iron punched a hole straight through the horse's sole.
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I don't think it is unusual for bad bruising to take more than a week for the horse to feel comfortable again. We had a pony that was habitually only shod in front, but as soon as he went hunting with our local pack (AKA the tarmac terriers) he needed to be shod behind, otherwise he would come back and be absolutely crippled the next day once the adrenaline wore off and it would take him a minimum of 3 weeks to come right again.
 
LCH611 said:
I don't think it is unusual for bad bruising to take more than a week for the horse to feel comfortable again. We had a pony that was habitually only shod in front, but as soon as he went hunting with our local pack (AKA the tarmac terriers) he needed to be shod behind, otherwise he would come back and be absolutely crippled the next day once the adrenaline wore off and it would take him a minimum of 3 weeks to come right again.
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I'd ask you the same question. What on earth was wrong with a pony who could not do a day's hunting without hind shoes on? I am hunting my third barefoot horse again this Saturday and will be going out with a fourth at Christmas once I have his feet conditioned and his fitness up.

If that pony was used to not wearing hind shoes, it should have been able to withstand a day hunting without getting bruises that took three weeks to come right. That just isn't normal.
 
I'm baffled with this thread. Why, with the market as it is, would anyone buy an unsound horse? Unless it was a complete bargain. If the vet is so sure there is no problem, then why not wait until the horse is sound and then buy it?
 
Rollin said:
The price is quite fair and we know the vendor very well. I asked about x-rays but the vet did not think it necessary. The horse is only lame on circle and reacted to a hoof test but flexion did not make the condition any worse.

If this horse had been vetted in France it would have been passed sound!!!
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I'm sorry but my horse is sound in a straight line, with hoof testers and flexion but is lame on a circle (1/0) and he's just been diagnosed with navicular and pedal osteitis so, personally, I would X-ray if you love it but I think I would walk away TBH.
 
cptrayes said:
I'd ask you the same question. What on earth was wrong with a pony who could not do a day's hunting without hind shoes on? I am hunting my third barefoot horse again this Saturday and will be going out with a fourth at Christmas once I have his feet conditioned and his fitness up.

If that pony was used to not wearing hind shoes, it should have been able to withstand a day hunting without getting bruises that took three weeks to come right. That just isn't normal.
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I agree that he SHOULD have been able to hunt without hind shoes on, which is why I tried more than once, but for whatever reason he COULDN'T. You could see the bruising very clearly on both his hind feet which were white, and then he would take ages to come right - and this wasn't a pony that made an unneccessary fuss about things as he bounced back from an RTA that broke his jaw, and left him with pelvic problems, fell through a bridge out hunting and waited placidly for 6 strong men to lift him off (he was a scrappy little Welsh A) and then carried on unperturbed. Bruising his feet however left him horribly lame for a long time - and both my vet & farrier advised that it wasn't especially abnormal. Fortunately I have 5 others that have wonderful rock crunching feet that can trot over flints without flinching, and just one laminitic cushingoid pony that I have had to give up and put back shoes on as his feet can't now cope with stones - we are on week 8 of box rest due to laminitis that may have been triggered by foot bruising and certainly hasn't been helped by developing PPID /EMS.

I do agree with you however that there is no need to buy a lame horse when there are plenty of sound ones about, but if OP likes the horse sufficiently to wait until it is sound/or get x rays done, where's the problem?
 
cptrayes said:
I'm baffled with this thread. Why, with the market as it is, would anyone buy an unsound horse? Unless it was a complete bargain. If the vet is so sure there is no problem, then why not wait until the horse is sound and then buy it?
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We ARE currently waiting to see how this horse does, the vendor and I are on good terms.

You refer to the current market - that may well be the case for warmbloods, ponies, cobs, TB's but I am not in that market. I only breed rare breeds and their blood lines are very important to me.

I have a mare who has been unsound since April, never lame in 10 years. Three vet visits and osteopath - no joy. X-rays revealed nothing. We took her to an FEI vet who took different view of feet, strapped on wedges and she was a different horse. Problem was my farrier - on my fourth since coming to France.
 
An update on this horse. I also had hocks x-rayed, for my own interest. (Probably I am the only breeder in Europe to have hock x-rays on a lot of horses of this breed and I have not found this to be the case.)

First vet, before seeing the horse said horses of this breed were known for their weak hocks. I should have asked how many he had treated.

After x-ray, vet's opinion there was a problem and this horse would not stand up to the stress of competition. We almost walked away.

BUT I sent the x-rays to a very well known UK Vet Hosp. whose clients are quite used to paying 100,000's guineas for yearlings. Just had a phone call to say there is nothing wrong with the hocks they are quite normal.

I am now wondering about this VERY subtle hind limb lameness.
 
I'm going to have to be another twitchy one.

My horse was intermittently lame on a left circle earlier this summer. Initially treated as a bruised sole. When he didn't come right, X-rays were taken and ringtone diagnosed.

He is sound in a straight line, and sound going right even with left leg nerve blocked.

Hope you get a firm answer with this horse, as you are clearly keen.
 
Rollin said:
I am now wondering about this VERY subtle hind limb lameness.
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PSD.

Unstable sacroiliac joint.

Meniscle tear in stifle.

Cartilage degeneration in any joint in the leg or hip (not visible on xrays)

Soft tissue damage in side foot - collateral or impar ligament or ddft - also not visible on xrays.

?
 
Rollin said:
We ARE currently waiting to see how this horse does, the vendor and I are on good terms.

You refer to the current market - that may well be the case for warmbloods, ponies, cobs, TB's but I am not in that market. I only breed rare breeds and their blood lines are very important to me.
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It would have been good to have had that information before we were asked to comment.



I have a mare who has been unsound since April, never lame in 10 years. Three vet visits and osteopath - no joy. X-rays revealed nothing. We took her to an FEI vet who took different view of feet, strapped on wedges and she was a different horse. Problem was my farrier - on my fourth since coming to France.
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Go barefoot?
 
cptrayes said:
It would have been good to have had that information before we were asked to comment.





Go barefoot?
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What before asked to comment - that I have Rare Breeds? On my sign off. Just 20 pure bred CB foals worldwide this year and 50 Shagya foals each year in France. Amazing how many British horsemen have never heard of a Shagya Arab. (

We purchased this small stud from two French people who are Show Jumpers in France. When I mentioned we planned to breed Shagya's the wife exclaimed "Aston Answer" and rushed to her bookcase to show me a book about Milton, complete with a photo of Milton with his dam Aston Answer. The book was written by an American - so the French and the Americans know more about his breeding than we do.)

I posted to ask for views on slight lameness, interestingly the vendor did not notice any lameness, that is all. I have very little experience with lame horses other than when they give themselves a knock in the field.

My existing mare has never been lame in 10 years. We suspected the farrier was a problem. The Professor recommended asymetric shoes, thicker on the outside edge and she is already improved. We are taking her back to the vet hospital in three weeks.

Thank you all for your help.
 
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