1st time breeder

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jelibean

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Im going to be putting my Springer Spaniel in pup this year, having never bred dogs before im a total newbie and need some advice from any experienced dog breeders who are willing to share there wealth of knowledge. My bitch is 2½ and from a really nice line, she has 15 FTCH's in her 5 generation pedigree and have been assured by a well respected Gundog trainer that she is well worth breeding from. My aim to is breed some nice pups so that we can keep at least two to have trained as gundogs for ourselves we left our bitch a little late and now hunts only for herself but has all the basics. We have chosen the Stud dog and have spoken to its owner about when to contact him ect. I know that she last came into season in february so im expecting to start watching her towards the end of July, and that i should aim to keep her weight down and well excercised.
Any advice or comments would be greatly appreciated.
 
You need to make sure you have somewhere she can whelp. If you let her have the puppies in your kitchen you need to be aware that

Ppuppies make a LOT of noise when newborn. The mother contstantly nibbles their umbilical and they squeak and complain about it.

In the first week or so, she will consume their poo. After that, they leave it wherever they do it - so again, prepare for her to have the puppies somewhere where this won't be a problem. A large litter can get a bit smelly too.

Depending on the time of year she whelps you might need to put a heat lamp over her and the puppies if who decided to have her living outside in a stable or something.

It costs a lot more than you think, and takes a lot more time than you can ever imagine, if you don't socialise the puppies really well they will grown up to be social monsters, so love them and play with them loads.

It IS a fantastic thing to do. I still remember cuddling 10 whippet puppies on the sofa every night.
 
Also make sure you know the risks you take when breeding, we lost Mum of our current litter when the pups were 1 day old and are hand raising 7 bundles, feeds start ever 1.5 hours 24hrs a day, they a 2 3 weeks now and we haven't lost any but its very hard work and obviously we are devastated about losing our girl
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oh yes, I forgot that. My whippet had 5 pups then one got stuck, the others had to come out via c-section. We lost the stuck puppy who was deformed anyway. She was fine afterwards, but we only just about came out even after paying the bills.

I bred the litter to keep a mega bitch puppy from a mega mother, so making money was not the reason.
 
Necessary health tests before breeding

Hip score
Eyetest
Dna test for Fucosidosis
Dna test for Progressive Retinal Atrophy (cord 1)
Dna test for Phosphofructokinase Defeciency (PFK)



Also 15 FTCH is not a great amount out of 64 parentages'.

To be frank & I do not mean to sound hurtful.

I would not be breeding from your bitch.
She is not trained herself, hasn't got the most elite breeding with FTCH's the fact that there are so many ESS out there wanting a home & they are good working bred like yours.

IF you choose to go on & breed from her then good luck & I hope you carry out all the necessary tests to improve the breed (which is the only reason for breeding a little is to improve the quality of the breed) Not I want another dog for myself.
And that you do not have any problems during the whelp.
 
What are her lines? Can I ask what you mean by left it too late to train her?

As k9h says, if you do breed from her PLEASE get the necessary tests done, eye problems can be huge in Springers.

Springers are probably one of the most commonly re-homed breeds due to people not understanding the breed, ensure you vet the homes, are able to offer to take back any of the puppies at any point and get a breeding restriction put on the puppies KC registration (and get the new owners to sign a contract agreeing to this).

We always wanted to use our old Springer at stud, he was a fantastic dog, his only flaws were down to our poor training. We even had two bitches come out to us, but he didn't know what to do!
I am actually pleased we didn't breed from him, as the Puppy would have always been compared to him, and it wouldn't have stood a chance.
As the owners of the Stud dog, it wouldn't have cost us a thing, however if you are only breeding to get a new pup, as the owners of the Bitch, it would be far cheaper for you to buy a pup!
You could get one with similar lines, not hard in Springers, the same lines are used over and over again. You'd be hard pushed to find a Springer without Rytex or Badgercourt nowadays.
 
Also don't forget to check the Stud's health tests, we also asked to the BVA paperwork hip/elbows etc... as not everyone is as truthful as they should be
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I really really don't mean to be rude or unhelpfull but I know a couple of people who have responded to your queries are experts in their field and all the tests have to better than amazing for the sake of the puppies.

If you breed something 'sub standard' (again - I am not meaning to be defamatory) then you have sub standard pups, which if bred from will create lower and lower standards. Which probably will include health problems etc.

I would also like to say that given the fact that dumped pets have gone up more than 50% in the last year I really dont think these numbers need adding to at this time?

I dont want to quote, but there is someone on here who is a dog expert and she said that if you cannot garauntee ALL of the puppies a home for life should the new owners not want them in the future then you should not be breeding them.

Sorry
 
Thankyou for your comments, all of which have been taken on board.
Firstly id like to point out that in my original post i didnt state anywhere that I had a bitch with "Elite Bloodlines" nor did i say that i was breeding her to make money.
She has already been tested for Hip and eye, and one of the points of this post was to find out what other tests should be done all of which and more if neccesery will be carried out.
I also did not state that my bitch was untrained, she is trained to retrieve, she acompanies my husband when he shoots over our land for pigeons and rabbits, but when left to do so she will hunt for herself, this in itself is fine for the purpose we require but we would have another one trained professionally from a pup to as higher standard that it was capable.
Also as far as improving the breed is concerned, the one thing that really annoys me when talking to anyone about the springer breed is that everyone comments on the springers over excitable and untrainable temprement, my bitch is very calm and responsive and this is one thing always commented on.
My bitch is by no means substandard and i do take offence to that comment quite frankly, if only such emotion was put into trying to deter the breeders of farsical matings such as labradoodles, cockapoodles and so on instead of loving owners with plenty of land and sufficient funds to take care of the dogs they choose to keep.
 
The same emotion is put into every breeding post, and I wonder why you want to breed rather than go and get 2 puppies, it would cost less and is less risky for your current bitch? Might be worth examing that with so many animals in the shelter at this time.
 
^^^ Agree with TS&H, we have this convo a lot on this board!

I have two dogs bred in the purple, they are great dogs, but as far as I can see into the future, they won't be procreating.

I actually bought the bitch as a breeding prospect but she hasn't turned out as expected. It has been a hard decision to make but having puppies from either would be for my benefit, not for the benefit of the breed that I love and a breed which indiscriminate, selfish breeding has helped cock up, in a lot of cases.

I will only ever, if at all, breed from dogs that are 100% in mind and body and with no health defects whatsoever.
But even then it can go wrong.
We haven't bred a litter since the late 1980s because, simply, there has been no need to bring more GSDs into the world.
Our first litter was a complete accident.
The last litter, the one we really wanted, two top notch examples of the breed, ended up in nothing more than a lot of dead puppies. We were an experienced kennel by that time.
Could you cope with that?

In fairness to the OP, you do sound a bit more clued in than a lot of other 'I have a bitch, I want to breed her' people that come on here.
 
[ QUOTE ]

Also as far as improving the breed is concerned, the one thing that really annoys me when talking to anyone about the springer breed is that everyone comments on the springers over excitable and untrainable temprement, my bitch is very calm and responsive and this is one thing always commented on.


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The reason that these comments are made about Springers is because people who have no idea about the breed take them on, so you get Springer without proper training, or exercise, and they are bonkers. This is a risk you take with selling your Pups, unless you can guarentee they will all go to experianced home that do something with them, be it agility, working, etc etc.

I have an EXTREMELY busy Springer, however provided he is given enough exercise, and I put enough effort into training him, he is a pleasure to own. I would not consider breeding from him because his puppies would be extremely difficult for novice owners, in fact he has just had his balls off, so he definately won't be bred from!
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He is in reality my first dog, but I have been around Spaniels for a long time, and I know what to expect from them.

Just because your bitch is a particular way means nothing to the outcome of the puppies. My Mother has a fabulous Working Cocker, he has lines to die for, she was offered an substantial amount of money for him and he is a brilliant working dog. He was put to Stud on an equally good bitch, however the resulting puppies have been a wide and varied selection of dogs, with probably only 1 or 2 as good as their parents.

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My bitch is by no means substandard and i do take offence to that comment quite frankly, if only such emotion was put into trying to deter the breeders of farsical matings such as labradoodles, cockapoodles and so on instead of loving owners with plenty of land and sufficient funds to take care of the dogs they choose to keep.

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I think you will find that anyone who makes a post with regards to breeding often gets this response. No where in your OP did you state you could take ALL the puppies back if needs be, hence peoples reactions. As long as you would be able to take back every puppy, have had all the relevant tests done (as has the Stud Dog) and are prepared for all eventualities then what you do with your bitch is up to you.

I for one would rather go out and buy 2 puppies, than go through the time, expense and risk of breeding myself, but that is again, your choice.

What lines does you bitch have? Just out of curiousity? I am a big Springer fan
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I would certainly never breed again - we bred a litter of ridgebacks from my very well bred and perfect example of the breed bitch with a top winning ridgeback - the stud fee alone cost a fortune! Anyway we got 10 gorgeous puppies - we kept 3 - as you do!!! But the rest went to really good homes but it was a nightmare trying to find the right people - the last pup went at 14 wks.
They cost an arm and a leg to feed - we fed them on James wellbeloved puppy and goats milk which we started them off in a dish at 2 weeks old - by 3 weeks the bitch had had enough of them - so it was feeds every few hours. We broke the washing machine with the continuous bedding/toys being washed at least 3 times a day. The pups got an upset stomach for 3 days because the bitch came in one day and puked for the pups which they dived into with great gusto - I have never seen so much mess in all my life!!!
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- a bin bag a day full of poop!!!
Needless to say it was great fun - but never again!!!
I will be only ever buying one in the future - and in this current climate dogs are the last thing on peoples lists, so finding homes is going to be even harder.
I have to say everyone who breeds always say they have a well bred dog - there are heaps out there with similar pedigrees as a stud dog can cover 100's of bitches and if you think each litter is on average 5 or 6 - that is alot of dogs with those lines, so you have to think what makes your pups stand out to make them that bit more salable than the heaps of other springer litters.
There are as others have said very high numbers of springers in rescue organisations as some breeders aren't responsible and won't take back a pup - could you manage if someone told you at a year old they couldn't cope with their dog and gave it back - it takes alot of work to un-do a badly behaved dog that someone else has wrecked!!!
Your dog is still young so maybe wait a year and see how the world picks up again and will also give you time to get homes found for potential pups.
 
Not all of us are against breeding on here (not even all of those that might seem to be against it, is against all breeding 100 %) and personally I must say that this "I'm breeding my bitch"-thread is one of those on HHO who has gotten the most "calm" replies that I've read this far. I've dreamt about breeding my dogs during all the 19 years I've owned dogs, but haven't had a bitch who I thought was good enough + passed the test required, until last year when my Jonna had a litter.

I'm quite sure I have openly admitted on here that I kept a bitch from the litter with the clear intention of that, if I consider her good enough + she passes the tests required, I will breed her in the future and I have never gotten a bad comment about it. That my mother and father fell in love with the other bitch puppy and she also ended up staying is probably off topic, but with only three puppies I only needed to sell one.

But luckily a large litter for a Finnish Lapphund is 7 to 9 puppies, they usually only get 4 to 5 puppies, but still, if you can't get them sold or one or two is returned, even 4 to 5 puppies, 12 weeks old can be quite more than a handful...


Read all the breeding books you can and be prepared that it will cost you a lot more than it would buying two puppies from somebody else. Start trying to find potential buyers now, so you have a list of maybe 10 people to phone, be prepared that a few will have changed their mind once the puppies are born or maybe they wanted bitches and you only got one bitch... Think through how you will handle the situation if everything doesn't go as planned, weak puppies, birth complications etc.

Good luck.
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I would certainly never breed again - we bred a litter of ridgebacks from my very well bred and perfect example of the breed bitch with a top winning ridgeback - the stud fee alone cost a fortune! Anyway we got 10 gorgeous puppies - we kept 3 - as you do!!! But the rest went to really good homes but it was a nightmare trying to find the right people - the last pup went at 14 wks.
They cost an arm and a leg to feed - we fed them on James wellbeloved puppy and goats milk which we started them off in a dish at 2 weeks old - by 3 weeks the bitch had had enough of them - so it was feeds every few hours. We broke the washing machine with the continuous bedding/toys being washed at least 3 times a day. The pups got an upset stomach for 3 days because the bitch came in one day and puked for the pups which they dived into with great gusto - I have never seen so much mess in all my life!!!
grin.gif
- a bin bag a day full of poop!!!
Needless to say it was great fun - but never again!!!
I will be only ever buying one in the future - and in this current climate dogs are the last thing on peoples lists, so finding homes is going to be even harder.
I have to say everyone who breeds always say they have a well bred dog - there are heaps out there with similar pedigrees as a stud dog can cover 100's of bitches and if you think each litter is on average 5 or 6 - that is alot of dogs with those lines, so you have to think what makes your pups stand out to make them that bit more salable than the heaps of other springer litters.
There are as others have said very high numbers of springers in rescue organisations as some breeders aren't responsible and won't take back a pup - could you manage if someone told you at a year old they couldn't cope with their dog and gave it back - it takes alot of work to un-do a badly behaved dog that someone else has wrecked!!!
Your dog is still young so maybe wait a year and see how the world picks up again and will also give you time to get homes found for potential pups.

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A lot of these things are just guidelines and there's a lot of perfectly normal differencies. Yes a lot of bitches stop feeding their puppies when they're around 3 to 4 weeks of age, but my bitch still gave her puppies one daily suckle at 7 weeks of age (actually, when the male puppy came back for a visit around 12 weeks old and at some time tried to suckle, Jonna didn't object, though she was "empty" by then, so he soon gave up). However, even with the bitch feeding for a longer time, it still costs a fortune, because then the bitch needs more food.
I also let the puppies test three different tastes of "hard food" and one "wet", so they wouldn't only be used to one taste, in case they inherited their mothers opinion about preferring to eat what she's used to eating. She did also puke up her food to the puppies without them getting an upset stomachs because of it.

Another thing only briefly mentioned by The Henmeister, is if you have any reserve stud dog? That is not the first time I've heard of dogs refusing to mate, f. ex. I've heard about a woman with two male dogs and having a bitch owner coming home to her with their bitch, with the intention to using one of the dogs. Bitch came in full heat, took one look at the intended male and didn't let him near. Next day when they did a new try, she again refused and when they had decided to give up for a while, the bitch managed to make herself available for the other male... Luckily the other male was also approved for stud work and the puppies turned out great (some became champions as I recall).
Another example, the stud dog I used to Jonna, after already having fathered two or three litters, a bitch owner came with a bitch very clearly in heat. He was interested on a distance, but once he had looked her over up close, he turned away and went inside to lie down in his bed and went to sleep!

So, just because we think their pedigree's/looks will match, they might think otherwise once meeting each other and that is a decision I believe we must respect. So, in case you really want to breed, you should have chosen a reserv stud dog. Besides something like above happening, accidents could happen, both "average" accidents and if he's used as stud dog on other bitches before yours, there is accidents that could happen while doing that.



Another thing besides taking back a puppy or dog from a buyer that you need to think through, is what support you can give the buyers? I don't know everything about dogs, but I like to believe I know more than the average dog owner and I think an average puppy-buyer should be able to count on the breeders help if they encounter any problem. Besides the feeding instructions I gave my puppy buyer three pages I had written with simple, basic advices that had worked for me and my dogs and they begun with something like "I don't know everything about dogs, but if you have any problems or difficulties I will do my best to help and if I don't have the solution myself, I probably know where you can get the help you need."
Their first dog was a rescue and a few months old when they got it and though they feel having Jonna's puppy has been unbelievable, incredibly easy compared to their first one, it's still nice to be able to offer support for the small things, such as if there's any risk with the puppy eating a meal or two of their old dogs food and vice versa (which there wasn't).


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