2012 Olympic Venue

[jaffs]

Wouldn't Windsor be a better place for the Equestrian Events at the 2012 Olympics? was it ever considered?.
It is London, the backdrop amazing and the Grounds perfect.
Greenwich is far too small to cope with the crowds.

 

[seabiscuit]

Windsor has terrible ground hence why Windsor horse trials has now been axed for good...unfortunately...

 

[Paddywhack]

Windsor Horse Trials stopped running 2005 after the event did a huge financial loss.My horse actually competed there. I remember that they sold some off the XC Fences to pay BE back.You got Smiths Lawn but that track is awful

 

[Weezy]

Blenheim would be perfect, easy to get to from London and a stunning backdrop and infrastructure already in place.

 

[welshchick]

[ QUOTE ]
Blenheim would be perfect, easy to get to from London and a stunning backdrop and infrastructure already in place.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what my unhorsey OH keeps telling me! Fab venue, indeed.

 

[jaffs]

For the life of me i just cannot understand why we will spend millions on a venue which will be ripped up afterwards, it makes no sense whatsoever!!
We could update somewhere and leave a real legacy for our future generations of equestrians.
Sailing will have Weymouth as a fantastic Legacy.
WE should have something too.

 

[lifeslemons]

I think people need to stop moaning. As we all know, equestrian sport is in a precarious and fragile situation at the moment. We need to create a united front and focus now on producing brilliant sport in 2012. Yes Greenwich will have some draw backs, but in my mind what could be better than this central London location. Usually we are thrown out to the back and forgotten. Here we will be central. Fantastic.

I had also heard plans that there might be some stabling and training facilities else where... perhaps at the old army baracks in St Johns Woods. This will allieviate some of the overcrowding. But I believe its safe to say Greenwich is here to stay, so lets concentrate on putting on a show.

 

[lucretia]

[ QUOTE ]
I think people need to stop moaning. As we all know, equestrian sport is in a precarious and fragile situation at the moment. We need to create a united front and focus now on producing brilliant sport in 2012. .

[/ QUOTE ]

completely agree with this part of your post but we might get everyone behind the idea if it was a permenant centre we were building. sadly Tom, all of this debate is just a smoke screen, alternative venues are already being looked at. everyone is forgetting that to run the equestrian in greenwich will mean closing the area down for the test event (IOC mandatory) for approx 2/3 months while they sort out the test event then open the park again then close it for the actual games. it is entirely un practical.
can you really imagine that they are going to dig up a world heritage site? suppose it was stonehenge? suppose the chinese had decided to dismantle part of the great wall? or athens put the roads and tracks through the acropolis (long format was in when they got the games)? everyone would have been horrified. never mind the games themselves, think about equestrian's precarious position and what a serious backlash from London would do to the sports even if they are all still there.
if the IOC drops one equestrian sport this time, most likely eventing cos of cost, the rest will be gone by 2016 so i think the priority is to keep the cost and protest down and horse sports in.

 

[Karen_Spinner]

Thanks for your views on this topic. The debate surrounding Greenwich and the future of horse sports in the Olympic movement is subject to a special news report in this week’s H&H (on sale 4 September), which I do hope you find informative.

Best wishes,
Karen Spinner
Acting deputy editor

 

[lucretia]

thanks Karen, we shall read with baited breath, but i suspect Horse and Hound will have been fed the official line which is that everything is still hunky dory for greenwich!

 

[seche]

I heard those barracks (in St Jns Wd) were being sold for development, ( I work in the industry) - well this was some months ago; and there sure isnt the room in the Knightsbridge barracks - I can just see all the Olympic horses all happy to stand on ball and sinkers.. Practising their dressage by Prince of Wales and Rutland Gate, and fitness work up Rotten Row, (where you arent allowed faster than a steady canter) followed by a cooling swim in the serpentine (sorry what a funny thought!) I think they will have to build a whole equine set up in east London - otherwise Lorries in central london now with the LEZ in place its going to get silly.

 

[jaffs]

Thanks Karen, don't get my HH 'til Friday (post around here works to it's own timetable!). But look forward to reading it.

The LEZ is a good reason why leaving a legacy in Central London wouldn't work, the majority of horsebox owners couldn't afford to drive in there!!
The congestion charge is bad enough

 

[kerilli]

As long as there's enough room for spectators, I think Greenwich would be fine, but I'm sure I read somewhere that there would only be room for 20,000 spectators on xc day. I think they'll need room for 5 times that at least, judging by the number who go to Badders and Burghley.
Windsor is a great idea, stunning backdrop, tons of room. Surely it wouldn't be impossible to put down a permanent all-weather track that could be used in perpetuity? Wasting all that money is ridiculous imho.
I dread to think what it will cost to shut down Greenwich Park, re-route traffic etc etc as has been suggested.

 

[Weezy]

Tom, I am not moaning about Greenwich, I just personally believe it is a really stupid idea to sink millions of pounds into something that will then be dismantled! Add that to the fact that they will prob have to ballot viewing tickets and where on EARTH will everyone park. What about the Greenwich residents? Their lives are going to be serious impacted - is that fair?

Why not go with a venue that already has infrastructure in place (i.e. Blenheim)? Why not INVEST the money rather than just spend it?

 

[pootler]

Looks like I'm going to have a full house then

I'm just over the road from it! However, I am thinking of getting off my backside and setting up a pro-Greenwich organisation to take on the local NIMBY's who are really starting to get on my nerves.

They are all moaning and whining as a default position, working on the basis guilty until proven innocent. It doesn't help that a certain Evening Standard journalist appears to be taking great delight in stirring things up. I get the feeling he would like the perceived kudos of being the one to get the Greenwich venue turned down.

I believe that he is career building for himself using negativity towards Greenwich for his own personal gain.

 

[pootler]

Also having looked into this briefly - a local resident has set up a group called NOGOE a couple of hundred people apparently recently attended a meeting to reject the use of Greenwich Park. Lets face it that's not many and I get the feeling that the group doesn't actually have much support (see page 2 of this link to another local group)

http://westcombe.gold.ac.uk/newspdfs/wnews7-08.pdf

 

[flyingfeet]

I don't care how it happens but Greenwich should not be used.

In the age of green taxes and recycling, the thought of doing everything on a temporary basis and then chucking it away is the ultimate excess and waste.

Maybe London is doing this so that the equestrian events do get thrown out?

Sailing has a brand new centre, its no where near London and its already in use training our competitors. Why on earth are the equestrians not doing this?

Again I cannot understand what the BEF were thinking.

 

[lucretia]

well said Weezy, cotswoldsj. my thoughts on this are well known and feel free to read my comment in the thread i started earler today above this one.
Pootler if you live there you know its totally impractical and a waste of money and have you considered they have to close the place down to run the test event in 2010? more wasted money. and 200 people is quite enough to delay hings nicely when if we all just got behind spending the oney on a permemant site we would all be helping equestrian immeasurably. the last three Olympics at least have left huge white elephant XC courses that will barely ever be used again and they didnt have to dg up a world heritage site to do it either.cutting down all those trees in the park, digging up the footpaths, how can anyone justify it, just to get a nice view from the course?

 

[pootler]

Yes Lucretia I live next door to Greenwich Park, I walk in it at least 4 times a week and yes I believe it is possible to run the event there. Yes I support the event.

Have you ever been to Greenwich Park?

 

[lucretia]

behave! i was born in camberwell, most of my family still live in bermondsey blackheath and lewisham so i have been known to go there. Have you ever been to Blackheath towncentre? do you really think the people who live round there are gagging to have their lives made a misery for two years for a horse event?

 

[pootler]

I live in Blackheath.........

 

[lucretia]

then dont be giving me this all the residents support it stance, you must know they dont. and i think you should read daffodils letter on the other thread. greenwich is just not a practical venue.

 

[pootler]

At what point did I say all the residents support Greenwich as a venue? I don't agree with your view and you don't agree with mine... However, I am a resident in the borough so do have a pretty good idea of what is happening locally. Which isn't necessarily the same as those reported in the newspaper.

People who disagree with something tend to get more press than those that don't have a negative view. I can't imagine seeing a headline saying "95% of Greenwich borough residents support the Olympics in the park" of course it will be the dissenting 5% who get the coverage.

 

[lucretia]

Hopeless. the voice of selfishness and ignorance speaks. perhaps its get bad press because anyone who is a true south londoner and loves the area knows that no matter how fab it might seem to do this ,realisitically spending millions to rip up a beautiful place in a deprived area where most people couldnt care less about horses is just folly. Not one of the supporters has come up with a reason other than we want it here and it will look nice to justify both the expense and the wrecking of a one of londons green spaces. re sow the trees? i ask you.

How many people in deptford even know what dressage is? What do they want or need with a xc course in bermonsey even if it was staying there? the sheer stubborness of the supporters of this plan is staggering. Look at the facts. the facilities needed will not fit in the park, nor will all the spectators and the park will be ruined for ever. stop being digging your toes in because you think it would be nice to have the event on your doorstep and think about the majority of people in the area who dont drive the leafy A2 to ride their eventer at the weekend. they will be playing in the streets same as we did. All the stables that were there when i learnt to ride are gone bar two. a great many residents in the area are very poor and do not need their access to a rare green space restricted for two years for sports that are practised by such a minority i defy you to find fifty people who live within two miles of the site who seriously compete.
i cant remeber an equestrian issue that has made me as furious as this. i am not just a londoner i am a south londoner and i am passionate about this because it is all just so wrong. ther will be no permenant legagy or jobs or improvents that the area could really use, its sickening how selfish some people are being.

We cannot agree to disagree on this its the olympic games not a pony club gymkhana.

 

[pootler]

So I am selfish and ignorant because I don't agree with your view. You think by being rude to me I am going to change my view? How dare you.

I am entitled to my views which are different to yours. Don't embarrass yourself by trying to bully me. I don't care how passionate you are about the subject, bullying can never, ever be excused.

 

[Nickijem]

[ QUOTE ]
So I am selfish and ignorant because I don't agree with your view. You think by being rude to me I am going to change my view? How dare you.

I am entitled to my views which are different to yours. Don't embarrass yourself by trying to bully me. I don't care how passionate you are about the subject, bullying can never, ever be excused.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said pootler!
I am actually one who does not support Greenwich as a venue for many of the reasons that have already been stated but I certainly don't think you are ignorant or selfish for having your opinion!

 

[lucretia]

i see we are hiding behind the 'i am entitled to my opinion' defence. well you surely are and i am entitled to mine particularly if you can offer no justificatoion for such an opinion when all evidence points to a contrary conclusion.
if you can give me one good reason why your hold your opinion i will apologise but thus far i have heard nothing to make me change mine.

 

[jaffs]

Well put Lucretia. It is absolute Madness to hold the Olympic Equestrian Events at Greenwich, (i do know the area very well...worked there for 13 years.)
I would like to see a report on how and why this site was chosen above others.

 

[duckling]

There was a debate about this in New Lounge a while ago... the majority of contributers, local or otherwise, say no way.

There is a huuuge facebook group - over 5500 members - calling for it to be re-sited (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=21076315126). Surely this number will be a small percentage of those who agree with this.

I seem to remember reading something about the trees in Greenwich park too - some were planted at the millenium and were sponsored by families in memorial of someone they'd lost. I'm sure they line a path through the park or something and for the cross country to run, some of those trees would have to be 're-sited', and understandably the families that had sponsored these trees were furious that they might be moved... Some had scattered their loved ones ashes around the base of those trees. It seems unethical to rip them up.

Greenwich Park is lovely, but not big enough and as has been said with so many other options it would be mad to stage it there.

PS - I'm also a South Londoner, nice as it would be to have it on my doorstep, I'd rather travel and have a course that will be of benefit to the equestrian community in the future.

 

[lucretia]

are you sure you are not me ducking, i am commuting between andover and beckenham these days! and i am rushing off to join te facebook group right now. you are quite right about the trees by the way. xx