2yr old will not back up 🤨

[Pc2003]

So just back from the yard to get my 2 in due to impending storm tonight.
One is a 2 yr old. He was an absolute toad to lead in, turning into me and rearing.
Eventually we managed to come in fairly nicely so decided to do some basic backing up/getting out my space etc.
Oh my god he literally will not move back. At all. He just stands there and either literally doesn’t flinch or he tries to bite me. He will not yield to pressure. Not sure if he just doesn’t understand or what but he won’t move a cm back. I’ve tried poking finger, waving/swinging rope, walking at him waving my arms and shouting 😂 long stick/short stick, blue pipe, plastic bag. Even if I whack him he will not take a step back. Someone else on the yard came towards him hitting a bucket with a wooden spoon and he STILL won’t move back. Seriously what else can I do??!

 

[AmyMay]

They won’t go back instantly, even with pressure. They’re more likely to move in to it. You just have to be patient, and teach them that a finger in the chest means move back.

You can do all the hollering and arm waving you like. That’s not education, that’s frustration and temper.

 

[meleeka]

Stop trying to scare him into going back for a start. I think you need to devote more time than one session. Start by asking him to move forward when you ask. When he understands that you are asking him to move his feet you can move on to sideways and then back. A good book should help but they aren’t born knowing how to yield to pressure, it has to be taught and to do that the pressure has to be released the second they move from it.

 

[TPO]

Ok stop.

Stop hitting him, shouting at him, waving pipes at him, using sticks and plastic bags. The most you will achieve is that he moves backwards out of fear. That is NOT how to train a horse.

You haven't said how long you've had him or what you've done with him but there is obviously something missing from his education when he doesn't lead well.

No idea what your experience is but I'm guessing you dont have much with youngsters.

I'd advise hiring a trainer to work with you and your horse to educate you both. Educate yourself independently as much as you can.

I'm not a fan of him personally but Warwick Schiller has a methodical series of videos that will show you step by step what to do. You could spend your money in worse ways than by signing up to his plan and following it.

I'm a big Richard Maxwell fan. His book "Train Your Young Horse" would be a valuable addition to help with training you to train your horse.

I'd also recommend 100 ways to improve your equine partnership and 100 ways to improve your Horse's behaviour by Susan McBane as well as one of her other books Know Your Horse. These will give you an insight into why horses act the way they do and will hopefully deter you from escalating situations in the way that you have described above.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Is this the youngster that you were only catching up once a week to handle him, and who wasn't leading very well? How much leading practice have you done since you posted about that?

 

[MotherOfChickens]

I’ve tried poking finger, waving/swinging rope, walking at him waving my arms and shouting 😂 long stick/short stick, blue pipe, plastic bag. Even if I whack him he will not take a step back. Someone else on the yard came towards him hitting a bucket with a wooden spoon and he STILL won’t move back. Seriously what else can I do??!

how is this funny?

what else can you do?get someone to help you that doesn't resort to banging a bucket with a spoon.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Seriously what else can I do??!

Seriously, if you even have to ask that question, then sell him on to someone who has a clue about handling youngsters.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

Lots of good advice above - they are not born knowing how to do what humans want, they only know how to be horses!
Try holding a tasty treat under his nose, near his chest so that he *has* to move back to take it from your hand. watch him very carefully so that you can say 'back' as he starts to move the first foot.

A much pleasanter way for him to learn what you mean!

 

[Pc2003]

No I’ve had him from December. He’s normally okay to lead. He came in overnight for a couple of months over winter and was generally fine to lead. This has been since he’s been living out and not handled as much. I agree probably a bad time to try. I struggle with the balance of leaving him to be a youngster but then thinking he should be handled daily.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

No I’ve had him from December. He’s normally okay to lead. He came in overnight for a couple of months over winter and was generally fine to lead. This has been since he’s been living out and not handled as much. I agree probably a bad time to try. I struggle with the balance of leaving him to be a youngster but then thinking he should be handled daily.

No I’ve had him from December. He’s normally okay to lead. He came in overnight for a couple of months over winter and was generally fine to lead. This has been since he’s been living out and not handled as much. I agree probably a bad time to try. I struggle with the balance of leaving him to be a youngster but then thinking he should be handled daily.

You can handle him daily and leave him to be a youngster for 23 1/2 hours per day, just do what is necessary to check him over, which will probably include leading him into the stable.

 

[paddy555]

Even if I whack him he will not take a step back. Someone else on the yard came towards him hitting a bucket with a wooden spoon and he STILL won’t move back. Seriously what else can I do??!

I hate to say it but you are simply going to ruin him. Hitting a bucket with a spoon? seriously????

Why would you whack him? he hasn't done anything wrong.
Put him in the stable and start by very calmly using your finger in his chest and telling him to back until he does one tiny step then praise him and take your finger away quickly. It may take a long time to achieve that, he isn't going to know the command. Keep repeating it and immediately taking your finger away each time he even moves a muscle.
You will have to slow everything down, the leading, the backing to get him working in hand. One step (his steps) at a time whilst he is learning then repeat and repeat and repeat every day.

All of my youngsters could be led in with just a rope round their necks and could back up even as yearlings or younger. Doing that did not ruin them as youngsters it just meant they understood what was required from an early age and we all had an easy life
. As PAS says he can be a youngster for the rest of the day but they have got to be able to be led etc. If they can't do this what would happen if he needed the vet or someone else had to look after him.

 

[TPO]

No I’ve had him from December. He’s normally okay to lead. He came in overnight for a couple of months over winter and was generally fine to lead. This has been since he’s been living out and not handled as much. I agree probably a bad time to try. I struggle with the balance of leaving him to be a youngster but then thinking he should be handled daily.

My post above stands. Buy (& read!) those books (& more), watch videos of good trainers, go to demos/clinics and hire a trainer.

By questioning how often/how long you should handle a youngster I'm guessing g you have no previous experience. It is even more important that you get a good trainer in board. At 2, if mentally ready, you could be long reining and giving your horse lots of exposure to the world. If you don't start working to bring your knowledge up to speed now and start handling and training your 2yr old now you're going to find yourself in serious trouble as he is only going to get bigger and stronger.

 

[LaurenBay]

Do more groundwork with him. It needs to be consistent. By all means you don't need to hours every day. But even 15 minutes a day would go a long way. As someone else said ask him to move forwards first and then praise him, then ask him to move back, you do not need to wave your arms, shout or wave objects at him. Put your palm flat on his shoulder and hold it firmly there. Even if he lifts only one foot and places it slightly back. Praise and remove your hand. Ask him to move forwards again a few steps and then repeat the process. Make sure you use the word "back" so that the Horse can associate the word with the action. Be patient and remember this is not him being naughty or stubborn, he doesn't know what it is you want him to do.

 

[TPO]

I also wouldn't be too quick to be teaching back when, according to a previous post, you don't have forward.

You really need help from a good trainer with the groundwork to help train you both forward, halt, moving hips, shoulders, back and transitions.

 

[buddylove]

Richard Maxwell has tutorials online that you can buy and download, great if you are a visual learner like me. I love the halterwork series

 

[Tiddlypom]

You can handle him daily and leave him to be a youngster for 23 1/2 hours per day, just do what is necessary to check him over, which will probably include leading him into the stable.

This

I bring my youngsters in twice a day for a token feed, then put them back out again. It's as much for the daily handling practice as for the feed. It keeps them ticking over nicely, plus they think that coming in to the stable is nice as they get fed, so win win.

 

[Fransurrey]

My youngster learnt to go back using a gate. He naturally backs away from it as it swings open, so I simply introduced the cue (voice command: "Back-back!"). Now, I simply have to pat his chest wherever we may be and use the voice cue (or pull reins backwards if I'm leading and need to back up). Due to his age I often wear a hi-viz jacket with some training sweeties in the pocket, so he gets a good scratch on the neck, lots of good boys and a herbal treat. This will transfer to ridden work, as I put most speed aids on voice cue.

 

[windand rain]

Sounds like too little basic ground work and too much aggression. I would also recommend Richard Maxwell's books and halter preferably with an experienced pair of hands on the halter. Teach him to walk forward on the Halter then to turn if he locks his feet then simply quietly and without drama pull to one side gently so he overbalances and has to move his feet, Intantly relase the pull even if its just the wobble movement of rebalancing he will get that message so once he leads frontwards, sideways he is ready to understand back. The halter is used to apply light pressure and a hand on the chest may help although I have found that the halter is enough if used gently enough you are not trying to cut off his breathing or pull him over it is the subtle quick movements that are rewarded anything else is ingored not escalated

 

[TPO]

Sounds like too little basic ground work and too much aggression. I would also recommend Richard Maxwell's books and halter preferably with an experienced pair of hands on the halter. Teach him to walk forward on the Halter then to turn if he locks his feet then simply quietly and without drama pull to one side gently so he overbalances and has to move his feet, Intantly relase the pull even if its just the wobble movement of rebalancing he will get that message so once he leads frontwards, sideways he is ready to understand back. The halter is used to apply light pressure and a hand on the chest may help although I have found that the halter is enough if used gently enough you are not trying to cut off his breathing or pull him over it is the subtle quick movements that are rewarded anything else is ingored not escalated

While I would normally agree in this instance I would definitely NOT recommend the halter and instead advise using a normal headcollar.

The timing of the release is so crucial, and there being a release, that I dont think OP has the experience for that. Based solely on the first post the tendency is to escalate and I dont think those are the right hands for a pressure halter

 

[Pinkvboots]

No I’ve had him from December. He’s normally okay to lead. He came in overnight for a couple of months over winter and was generally fine to lead. This has been since he’s been living out and not handled as much. I agree probably a bad time to try. I struggle with the balance of leaving him to be a youngster but then thinking he should be handled daily.

He can still live out to be a horse and still have daily routine handling everyday! I assume your going up to him at least once a day catch him bring him in and just do 15 minutes of groundwork give him a brush and turn him out again.

My 2 year old colt was out most of the time but came in everyday for a while, I groomed him picked his feet out, he would be bathed and would load if I needed him to as I used to show him in hand so i got him used to it very early on.

 

[windand rain]

While I would normally agree in this instance I would definitely NOT recommend the halter and instead advise using a normal headcollar.

The timing of the release is so crucial, and there being a release, that I dont think OP has the experience for that. Based solely on the first post the tendency is to escalate and I dont think those are the right hands for a pressure halter

true why I said experienced hands on the halter but you are right in the wrong hands it could be a disaster hence the emphasis on gentle movement and subtelty

 

[vhf]

The only time I have ever known a horse utterly refuse to back up, it was a sticking stifle issue. This often shows up in their early years, but isn't very common. Not knowing what you mean is much more likely.
At two, they can be learning how to test your boundaries, and the spring grass is coming through, so the natural reaction to being asked to do something they don't understand can be to respond negatively.
You need to think about making the right choice easy and the wrong choice hard so your youngster wants to go backwards for you. But he can't do that until he understands you are asking him to go backwards in the first place. How can you make him want to go backwards for you if he doesn't understand? You have two basic approaches (three if you count scaring the living daylights out of him), trick him into doing it and then rewarding (using food usually), or waiting until he does it and rewarding. You need patience and spot on timing either way. Good luck!

 

[Hormonal Filly]

How much ground work have you done with him? Every day? They aren't born knowing how to back up, poor sod was probably so confused by all going on with all the smacking and arms everywhere!

When my gelding was a youngster I was daily handling him even a few minutes a day.
Around the yard, turning him, asking him to walk on so eventually it was by command, then trot on and halt, and then training the back up. I gradually introduced it and I would occasionally use a treat. Maybe try pushing the treat into his chest and he'll probably walk back to try and start saying 'back', it may work. Mine was never nippy so it didn't bother me using occasional treats. It mean't when I started long lining him everything was easy, as he knew stand, walk on, trot on and back up just in voice commands alone.

 

[eggs]

I've had two young horses that had an issue with backing up. One just took a while to learn and the other turned out to have wobblers. For the one that took a while to learn like Fransurrey we used the going through a gate to give him the idea.

 

[Hormonal Filly]

I've had two young horses that had an issue with backing up. One just took a while to learn and the other turned out to have wobblers. For the one that took a while to learn like Fransurrey we used the going through a gate to give him the idea.

I did think that, a friend had a poor mare that had wobblers. She was put to sleep before the age of 3, so sad. She couldnt do things like back up either.