3rd hack on youngster - I knew this would happen! *long*

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Berkeley you will do fine! You have the right attitude and are not afraid to ask for advice. Don't beat yourself up about getting off. Actually most professionals I know will not ride a rearer, they cannot afford the chance of injury! Don't let this become a problem, just put it behind you and start a new day tomorrow. Going back to long lines is an excellent idea and I am sure you will see it through. Don't rush it, some horses just need a little bit more time. Long lines will get him going forward, remember, FORWARD, FORWARD. Good luck and keep us informed, you will do great! xx

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Agree with this and just wanted to say I would have done the same thing and hopped off. They only have to rear once or twice and I hop off, pushing a horse forwards whose defense or argument mechanism is to rear is IMO a hundred times harder than say for example a bucker which I would say, for most of the time (I know there will wlays be exceptions) I find much easier to ride through and get tough with. Horse goes up and that's me off I'm afraid!
 
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If we are dealing with a real youngster (which I take it yours is as you said this was only his 3rd hack), then there is no way he should be made to go out on his own at the moment, end of story.

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Disagree totally! All our babies hack out as soon as they are 'safe' to walk, trot, canter and stop in the manege (2-3 weeks after first sat on usually.) They START with a companion - usually one who has been broken in 2 months longer (they're FAR more sensible than the old, experienced hunters!
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) And they are required to go in front from day 1.

The role of the 'companion' is to slow down traffic coming from behind, to move up beside the baby if something BIG is coming, and to come up and give baby a lead if it gets frightened and sticks. (And of course, the second rider can call for an ambulance after catching loose horse, if required!
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Once they start hacking they hack every day, just 30 minutes or so, and after 4-5 outings they go solo. After that, they go solo some days, in company other days, and only when they are good in front, or solo, do we allow them to go 2nd or last (and then only for part of a hack!)

The OP made an error in trying to force the issue through puddles on first solo hack, AFTER getting off for a puddle on the previous hack. We never make an issue of anything trivial on the first couple of outings - and we never get off (mind you, if they started rearing, then maybe - an unbalanced rearing baby is NOT for the faint-hearted - but they never DO rear because we don't put them between a rock and a hard place!)

Puddles are for another day. My colt was a silly prat about puddles initially so I ASKED him to go around them until I found the 'right' puddle! (On an unmade track that NO-ONE drives up at more than 10 miles an hour, the puddle was right across the road, and with solid hedges either side.) I turned him and asked him to rein-back - whoops - he was in the puddle. We stopped and turned - still in the puddle. There was only one way to get out - through the puddle! We continued up the track and turned for home - the ONLY way for him to go home was through the puddle, so he went through it on tip-toe! We did that route and that puddle until it dried up. Only had to do the rein-back trick once more - and he's been fine with all puddles (and he's been through trillions) since.

Babies DO need a confident AND SYMPATHETIC rider - they must TRUST the rider to keep them safe. And while you need to encourage them to do things that are scarey, you MUSTN'T try to FORCE an issue - that just teaches them to fight back. Work around the problem, sneak up on it, and GRADUALLY increase the challenges!
 
The other thing i would say is i would not trot home either i know it is difficult but walk out with a schoolmaster every 2nd or 3rd day and dont nec set yourself the task of going so far just to the track one day then to the end of ti etc. go difffernet places but little and often and do not get off. Can you also have soemone walk behind you with a lunge whip. I had to do this with my youngster when he was on his own. had hacked out with shcoolmaster for 6-8 months no issues went in front no probs but becuase he had been led a lot he got 100 yrad down rd and stopped, went backwards down dykes, reared bucked etc etc. In the end my mum came out with us for a month in the landrover with lunge whip hanging out of passenger window.
 
My horse absolutely refused go go through puddles as a youngster even with an experienced horse to give him a lead (as a general note though he never took a lead off another horse). Unfortunately we never had a nice big puddle that filled the whole road so he used to get away with it - I'm reasonably brave but a fly leaping horse in the middle of the road was very unnerving.

One day I was at a show and the only way into the warmup arena was through a massive puddle that filled the whole entrance. My friend very kindly walked through it on foot (soaking her feet in the process) with him. From that day he has never looked back!

From what you have said about your youngster I would avoid hacking him out on his own until the puddles have disappeared and I would take him out in company but only on a hack with no puddles. At some point you will need to deal with his behaviour but I would build up trust by avoiding a confrontation.
 
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I was up and down like a slappers knickers
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. But it totally worked and now we hack out alone with no problem. She never wanted me off, she just needed a lead. I got there without a big fight.

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PMSL at quote of the day, slappers knickers!
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Oh and my girl is the same, walking her past things and popping back on has worked brilliantly over the years.
 
Someone on this forum (can't remember who it was) once said to me that they had broken dozens of horses every year since god knows when and they had never had an incidence of 'napping'! I think I had said something like "typical yongster and napping issues". Oh, how marvellous for them! But on the other foot, surely they cannot qualify to give advice on the subject! It always amuses me tbh, such professionals but had never come across 'napping'! Look, it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you achieve what you set out to without distress to rider and horse. We all have different methods, listen and learn. xx
 
i def would not take a youngster out on his own for the 3rd time.
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if mine start mucking around i never let them get away with it. the only time i have got off my yongster was the other day when there was a resycling bag in the way and it was out side a pub with lots of people outside!!!
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lol i didnt want any trouble because i no some people would kick up a fuss if they saw me kicking him to go past it and some times tapping him with the stick. i have two youngsters and they are 5yo and 6yo i hack them on there own now because they are so used to it and i feel in control when doing it. good luck with yours. also just wondering how old he is??
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I don't have nappy horses. My current youngster is not very forwards, and so will do lots of hacking & fun stuff to get him enjoying his work. I would be horrified if he napped or reared - and he will rear for fun ALL the time when I'm not on board.
When you've broken in lots of horses you know how to head the behaviour off at the pass. I think you have an obligation to ensure the horse becomes a well rounded individual who can go off and have a secure future. You do this by breaking/educating properly, when they are on project horses/unsellable it's a bit late for them.

I am always amused/amazed at the number of people who are free with their advice because they HAVE animals who nap or rear or whatever. It is not a coincidence that some people have horses who don't do these things.
 
When my mare started hacking out on her own she also started napping and then rearing when she reached certain points on our hacks, no particular reason, in the end I did get off and lead her past as it was the only way to continue. It probably took me a year to get her hacking with no problems, I dont think the getting off caused a problem, it gave her confidence to go forward again. Having said that I also didnt really have anyone to hack with and she only went out a couple of times with another horse then i got my husband to walk or cycle with me, whilst doing this she was fine, it was only when she started on her own the problems started. So you do need to have company until they are rock solid but then again you dont want them to get clingy so its a case of making a judgement so you dont set yourself up to fail.
 
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When my mare started hacking out on her own she also started napping and then rearing when she reached certain points on our hacks, no particular reason, in the end I did get off and lead her past as it was the only way to continue. It probably took me a year to get her hacking with no problems, I dont think the getting off caused a problem, it gave her confidence to go forward again. Having said that I also didnt really have anyone to hack with and she only went out a couple of times with another horse then i got my husband to walk or cycle with me, whilst doing this she was fine, it was only when she started on her own the problems started. So you do need to have company until they are rock solid but then again you dont want them to get clingy so its a case of making a judgement so you dont set yourself up to fail.

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This is a really good point. It is down to the judgement call. I think we were too ambitious today. You are right about relying on a schoolmaster to go out with all the time. I started off thinking I will have 2 rides with the SM and then one alone. It hasn't worked. Yet. But it will.
 
its all very well professionals or people who have broken dozens of horses replying in horror that they don't need nanny horses, their youngsters never nap, they would never get off etc- great that is why you do it for a living!

OP, if you are sure you don't want to send away you need to look at other ways around this blip before it becomes an ingrained issue.

are there any routes you can take that are very quiet/ off road?
if i was you i would take him out on long reins so he has to go forwards by himself without following you.

i would avoid a fight about puddles until you come across one that blocks an entire track so there is no choice to go around!

my mare used to hate going through water/mud but i used to purposely hack her out after torrential rain so there was standing water everywhere!
much easier than trying to get them through a puddle 1ft x 1ft!

when he is long reining out really well i would find a nice circular route and would long rein out in proper tack and get on when you are 1/2 way round and ride home.
as you do this regularly you can make the long reining session shorter and shorter.

this works wonders with nappy or unconfident horses and is the way i start all of my youngsters out hacking as i have no nanny to go with.
 
QR IMO horses should have their first couple of hacks with a nanny and then go it alone. If they've been longreined out and about then it shouldnt be an issue. small hacks on easy circular routes-do it on a sunday morning when its quiet to start with. dont worry OP, he'll come right although if you are nervous of going it alone maybe get a more experienced mate to do it for you?and fwiw, my horse has been hacked alone since he was 4 and an escort for others since then and wouldnt go through puddles back then! does now-goes through/over anything. hardest thing with youngsters is picking your battles and noone gets perfect at doing it without making the odd little mistake
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could you try walking him on that route in hand maybe on a lunge line to get his confidence then when you have done that quite a few times then try going out with another horse after doing that try making him be the lead horse thats what we are having to do with my mare as she was getting quite dangerous i also got off and led her through things even when we were out with another horse but her problem was huge sideways bucks and galloping back home. i know not much but hope it helps
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I don't have nappy horses. My current youngster is not very forwards, and so will do lots of hacking & fun stuff to get him enjoying his work. I would be horrified if he napped or reared - and he will rear for fun ALL the time when I'm not on board.
When you've broken in lots of horses you know how to head the behaviour off at the pass. I think you have an obligation to ensure the horse becomes a well rounded individual who can go off and have a secure future. You do this by breaking/educating properly, when they are on project horses/unsellable it's a bit late for them.

I am always amused/amazed at the number of people who are free with their advice because they HAVE animals who nap or rear or whatever. It is not a coincidence that some people have horses who don't do these things.

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I've had horses who WERE very nappy and eventually become non-nappy. That, but your reckoning, makes me far more qualified than you to comment...........

Nappy horses are a pain, but it's almost always a lack of confidence, rarely them being 'naughty'. Therefore getting off and leading (if that's what helps them feel more confiendent) is exactly the right thing to do. IMO the 'getting off teaches them to nap' school of thought is bollocks and shows a total lack of understanding of how horses think.

The only mistake you made was letting the situation go too far, before you got off. Next time hopefully you'll get off a bit sooner, give him confidence to go forwards then get back on once he's happier.

As others said he just needs practise, lot of pratice. If a confience-giving school master isn'tavalible, take him out in-hand. I've found that's the best way to get them out and seeing the world if they're a bit worried. After a bit take him tacked up and hop up when the goings good and build up to riding the whole way.
 
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I've had horses who WERE very nappy and eventually become non-nappy. That, but your reckoning, makes me far more qualified than you to comment...........

Nappy horses are a pain, but it's almost always a lack of confidence, rarely them being 'naughty'. Therefore getting off and leading (if that's what helps them feel more confiendent) is exactly the right thing to do. IMO the 'getting off teaches them to nap' school of thought is bollocks and shows a total lack of understanding of how horses think.

The only mistake you made was letting the situation go too far, before you got off. Next time hopefully you'll get off a bit sooner, give him confidence to go forwards then get back on once he's happier.

As others said he just needs practise, lot of pratice. If a confience-giving school master isn'tavalible, take him out in-hand. I've found that's the best way to get them out and seeing the world if they're a bit worried. After a bit take him tacked up and hop up when the goings good and build up to riding the whole way.

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I think from what most are saying is slow down in the expectations and try something new until something works - which it will. I think the long reining and in hand ideas are great and I will do this tomorrow. To be honest I was thinking of doing the same route tomorrow to expose him as much as i can but from the general views on here I should avoid that scenario for a while.I really appreciate your advice. There have been some great ideas and support to my post. I'm very grateful. Thanks so much for the practical, rather than academic, views and opinions.
 
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I am always amused/amazed at the number of people who are free with their advice because they HAVE animals who nap or rear or whatever. It is not a coincidence that some people have horses who don't do these things.

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what's that meant to mean you cheeky mare, fyi my mare is an ex racehorse who had never hacked out on her own, had been mistreated and was in a new place. That's why she was nappy going out on her own, sheer lack of confidence. I put the work in to finish up with a pretty decent riding horse who certainly would not have any place on project horses.
I doubt very much if the op's horse will end up on project horses either as she is putting the work into him and sensible enough to ask for help and other opinions when she feels she needs them.
 
I wouldn't worry about getting off, although it maybe better if you 'happen' to get off when you see something he may find questionable rather than after trouble starts, this way he won't associate rearing with you getting off. If he longriens that may help because he will still have to go forwards with out the security of having you lead him. Also when you ride out with another horse you can have your horse go in the lead most of the way but with a companion to go up front for added confidence with scary stuff.
Good luck with him - I'm sure he'll be fine
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i def would not take a youngster out on his own for the 3rd time.
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Me neither - I'd take him out alone FIRST time
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But off road, and lead/longrien on the road. What works for one person/horse don't always work for another.
 
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