4x4 road tax may go up to £400 a year!!.

custard

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Another point about putting road tax directly onto fuel: (I agree with the theory 2p a litre would probably cover it)

Nobody would be able to get out of paying it then like the idle *** that dont bother to insure their cars either. I work in an area where they reckon at least 1 in 5 isnt insured and you wouldnt believe how many people seem to think it's an 'optional extra' on a car, guess what we're all paying for it!. Our local Police force siezed about 12 000 last year alone for no insurance or no licence, ha ha!!!
(Evil laugh)
 

flyingfeet

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Wonder how much a prius can tow??
Do you think the gov't are just trying to encourage people to tow with an illegal set up

We will all have to go out and by old landies that don't pay any road tax at this rate!!

What about all the prats in porches - less mpg than a 4x4!!
 

evsj

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If we paid tax on fuel instead then that would be great cos most of my travelling (to work) will be by train.


Oh, no just realised - that just gives Southeastern railways another excuse to raise rail fares (again)
 

Morrigan_Lady

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[ QUOTE ]
OMG! That is ridiculous.

Due to all those stupid people who buy 4x4s when they don't bloody need them!

[/ QUOTE ]

Amen to that sister!!
 

Ashf

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[ QUOTE ]
Ok - some people do need a 4x4 - fair enough!
But the vast majority of country dwellers who have one do not really need one - most have horses as a hobby, not a career. I am just fed up with the attitude that only people in the country should own one! If I had to sell my horse and trailer and move to a town, I'd still want to keep my car.

[/ QUOTE ]

It could be argued that a reduction in farming livestock would be far more beneficial as most of the methane emission into the atmosphere comes from cattle - methane being much much worse than CO2 regarding the global warming gases.

It could be argued that cattle farming on a large scale should be taxed as heavily as flying a jumbo jet as a private plane, both are used for personal gain (a large herd to provide an income, a private jet plane to whiz oneself around for business or pleasure)

If people had to justify keeping horses by following a career in them, then nearly all of those who worked with them would be out of a job as livery nearly always makes up a good proportion of any yards income, and this would effectively shut the door on anyone not born with parents who own farms or yards from getting involved with horses on anything other than just hacking out with riding schools or trekking centres.

It would indeed promote the notion that horseriding is an elitist pursuit !

I'm a townie and my daughter is doing an ND course in Horse management @ Hartpury in the hope she can follow her dream of working with horses as a career.
Had we not kept our own horses (DIY on a farm) and she gone out competing with them (courtesy of the 4x4 and trailer), it would have been unlikely that she would have gained enough experience for the entry test or indeed enough to carry her through the course.

You have to spend serious money with riding schools to acquire the experience of riding and handling which owners take for granted, and many of the kids on the course who's parents paid for their kids to have their own horses in full livery really struggled with the concept of mucking out as they never had to pick up a shovel or push a wheelbarrow to the muck heap before now.
 

Sooty

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I am merely trying to point out that nobody has more right than anyone else to drive a 4x4. As for global warming, tis a myth. Those cows can fart until they come home, the sea gives off more CO2 than they ever can! The tax on uneconomical cars (not just 4x4s) is nothing to do with the envirnoment, if it was they would use the money to develop alternative fuels.
 

SecretSquirrell379

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I drive a 4x4, theoretically speaking I don't need a 4x4 but I want one, it makes picking up feed etc so much easier, so I bought one. Its my choice what car I drive, I pay for it, pay for the fuel etc. Weezy is right, it is nothing to do with the environment, not in this country. I was in Vietnam earlier in the year, you should see the polution in the town there
now they have got a problem
 

Sooty

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Exactly! It is personal choice. Wherever you live, you should be free to drive the car you want to. Sadly Pollution and environmental damage are being overlooked in the craze to cut carbon emissions, and every political party is the same. I think I'll start a 'truth about the planet' party!
 

Ashf

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I am the original cynic when it comes to global warming.

I think that the scientists are onto a winner as their theories will be proven or not until long after all of us are dead (and they know it)

Whatever we do as inhabitants of this planet, nature could double or triple our meddling in the blink of an eye and in the grand scheme of things, it would just be another shade in the sediment for future generations to discover.

Division and confusion is exactly what the government want to see in the electorate. The policies are more based upon raising money for their grandiose spending plans than doing anything constructive about it (which would actually make a difference) and unless the US, China and India make changes then whatever we do will count for nothing.

If we are so busy hating each other for the personal choices we make, they will be happy because we will as a nation be diverted from focusing on the poor decisions which they make !
 

classiclady

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I am so sick of this topic as it isn't just 4x4s that are big engines as so many of you before have said the exc cars and people carriers have the same size engines as my 4x4s that are sat on my drive. We own a Frontera 2.2 sport and jeep 4.7 but I forgot to mention both these cars have been converted to run on LPG and my emissions are 0.034 the max limit is 3.500 the jeep came out at 0.010 so can any one say to me that my cars are damaging the planet.
 

Ashf

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I belong to forums and if you even hint at cynicism of the green movement, you are renounced as a heretic and will burn in hellfire and be damned forever.

Heck, even mention that you drive a 4x4 and you would receive less stick if you ate your own babies
 

Toby_Zaphod

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The government want to punish the Chelsea tractor drivers & end up puinishing us all. I hate my 4X4, it's expensive to insure, to maintain, to buy fuel for but I need it to do the towing that I do. Mine is not new, infact it's rather old, & I cannot really afford the doubling of tax.

By having this policy it will affect Landrover Sales & jobs. It will affect Ifor Williams, Bateson, Rice, Richardson, Wessex & the other trailer makers both with sales & jobs.

Yet again the idiots in Central Government are screwing around with the way of life in the country. They are going the way that Thatcher went....the longer you are in power the more you feel you can do what you want with impunity. No waonder Blair wants to stand down because no one in their right mind would elect him again


Rant over....sorry but they've really P****d me off
 

evsj

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[ QUOTE ]
The government want to punish the Chelsea tractor drivers & end up puinishing us all. I hate my 4X4, it's expensive to insure, to maintain, to buy fuel for but I need it to do the towing that I do. Mine is not new, infact it's rather old, & I cannot really afford the doubling of tax.[ QUOTE ]


Exactly. My point earlier that was most of us on this forum who like to compete, who choose travel our horse for whatever reason etc etc do NEED 4x4 (or whatever you want to call them). Otherwise, I like thousands of other horse riders would be restricted to riding around a sand school/field and never take part in competitions.

Some little dolly-bird living in an exclusive street in Chelsea does not NEED a huge range-rover. London has public transport for starters and there are hundreds of different cars that are infinately more practical in a city than some massive 4x4. I spent alot of time last year working for a client in Kensington and the street where he lived consisted of either range-rovers, x5, prsche cayennes or merc 4x4's and the occasional sports car - I am not exagerating!

I don't disagree that everyone has a right to the vehicle of their choice but because the '4x4' is so fashionable with those at the top of the food chain, TB and friends have seen a way of making money from it. But it penalises the people who do need to use them - farmers, anyone living in rural area (my parents are nether horsey or farmers but they couldn't get up and down their hill in winter without their old landrover) and those who need to take their nag anywhere.
 

airedale

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like I said - the gov. can choose to use the carrot or the stick but typically choose the stick (upping road tax) instead of the carrot (putting duty onto fuel instead and letting people work out for themselves that a vehicle that does 50 mpg is better than one that does 20)

However the shiny 4x4/peoplecarriers in towns ARE driven by people with a certain 'mentality' - i.e. they seem to become 'disabled' and unable to walk the minute they exit their front door

I had my own 'I don't believe it' moment this evening - I was the 3rd of 3 cars to pull over by a post box - first car was posting a letter, 2nd car was 10 ft away from post box and then me. I got out, walked, posted letter, got back into car and then watched gob-smacked as car in front - started engine, drove 10 ft, stopped engine, got out, posted letter, got in, started engine and drove off.....

.........and yes - it was a nice shiny Range Rover Vogue 4x4 chelsea tractor.

THOSE sort of people NEED to be hit in the pocket - even if only marginally

and whilst saying "they can afford it so it won't hurt them" - NOT necessarily true !!!

The combination of these taxes and upping council tax IS starting to bite the posers of this world (I accept it's also hitting 'real' people as well) - my friends husband does 'receivership' work and regularly atm is getting clients with 850k houses, 650k mortgages and unable to meet the mortgatge and not able (too thick ?!) to realise that there may be aconnection with the RR Vogue and the Ferrari parked in the drive (also on credit !)

sometimes the only way to make ignorant people see sense is to walk up to them and thwack them one - and sorry - but I DO fall into the category that 4x4s should only be 'permitted' to be owned by people who are registered farmers, registered agricultural workers, registered horse owners (we were discussing licensing horse owners), etc and NOT by the residents of Chelsea !!!
 

lottie1990

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19 June 2006
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England
oh it better not go up, £400! ive noticed theres lots of people buying 4 x 4 just because of there power. We have one for a job to tow the trailer, it has a purpose! ohhh we shouldn't have to pay that much! grr!
 

henryhorn

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Do you know what I did with my 4 x 4 this morning? Skidded round slippy snow covered fields checking horses, drove ahead of the tractor to open the gates for daughter so the horses couldnt do a mass escape whilst she got back in after opening gates, and then carted a load of heavy stuff up to the recycling bins at the end of our long drive.
To say they will quadruple the tax is so damned unfair. I can't fit lots of rugs in the tractor when changing them on field horses, I can't tow the hay trailer in summer with an ordinary car, and we live up a steep hill which when snowing is only accessible by a4 x 4 or tractor!
I just wish Mr Brown would come and try life without taxis buses and nearby shops.. Carrying six heavyweight rugs half a mile to the top fields would soon make him see why some of us have to use 4 x 4's....
 

airedale

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but you could tow trailer with tractor and put rugs on the trailer
you tow the trailer in summer with the tractor to shift hay
when snowing you use the tractor (and if it's that bad that often maybe rig up a snowplough device for the front mountings)
use electric fencing or a properly made 'gate pen' to stop the horses escaping. Lots of people have those round me as their fields open directly onto main(ish) lanes

there you are - no need for the 4x4 (sorry -bit tongue in cheek really - I do accept that people in rural areas need 4x4s). However people in Chelsea don't need 4x4s and tbh the gov. rules the majority, not the minority - and there are more (idiots) in London and other urban cities driving unnecessary 4x4s than there are people in rural areas with a genuine need for them

so the sins of the majority are affecting the minority

I also think that another reason for the rise of 4x4s is this obsession with 'traffic calming' road humps that adversely affect the response times of ambulances and fireengines and are more harmful to 'normal' cars than 4x4s.
 

spaniel

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So what do I say to my 'London' friends who have a Rangey then....they have a second home here in Somerset which actually they spend more time in than their London home. Without the rangey they havent a hope of reaching the cottage due to potholes and adverse weather.

They also shoot. The rear of the rangey has been 'made secure' to carry guns and dogs. Theres no way they could do this in their other car.

Do I tell them to stay in the capital, allow someone local to buy their cottage, shoot the dogs and sell the guns to the gun school??

Of course not. How they choose to live and spend their free time and their hard earned income is entirely up to them. This is an attack on all of us not just those of us who are fortunate (IMO) to live in rural areas and have sporting/horse hobbies. The chelsea tractor may be irritating to many of you/us but no more irritating than those kn*bheads in sports models who carve up and down country lanes at the weekend with no regard to anyone but their noisy exhausts. I am damned sure they have bigger engines than most of our 4x4s.

Live and let live. Why has this country become so devisive....no, silly question, its this blasted labour government. This is the one thing they ARE good at....driving a wedge between different sections of society.
 

airedale

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If they are affluent enough to have 2 homes - which most people don't have - then they could have the RR in London but keep it parked and use public transport in London and only use the RR to commute to/from countryside

and whilst you are perfectly right that an unmade road may well need a 4x4 does it HAVE to be a RR or a Jeep - there ARE more economical/green alternative 4x4s - that is part of the argument - there are - as lots of other people have said - small 4x4s and huge 4x4s.

and btw I manage to get to a rural property - on a steep hill - on ungritted roads - across a 3/4 mile long unmade potholed road - every day without fail (or the animals don't get tended) for the last 10 years in a normal, average, automatic saloon car and it hasn't suffered one little bit by being driven on unmade roads - it's still on the same shocks, suspension, etc and is now 12 yrs old. I've used it to speed up bringing hay in at harvest, it goes on and off showgrounds in the mud without getting stuck (going past stuck 4x4s at Badminton about 4 years ago when it was a quagmire) - so sorry but I DO feel entitled to say that I can and do manage a rural existence without a 4x4 and will continue to do so. My saloon car gets all the animal feed for 9 horses, sheep and poultry every week at the cash n carry, transports 3 med/large dogs and will seat 5 people comfortably.

WHY would I need a 4x4 ??
 

belly

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shropshire
What a poo.
Like many others I only have the disco because we tow horse trailor, caravan and my husband has show motorbikes!!!
We are certainly NOT well off. We have never had a holiday abroad and the only time we go away is for the odd weekend to Wales in the tourer!!
This makes me soo mad!!
 

spaniel

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They do indeed only use the RR here in Somerset, it sits on the drive in London.

Interested to know what car you drive, sounds like a trojan!

And whats the problem with certain models of 4x4 all of a sudden. A fart powered Jimny more acceptable???

 

CAYLA

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The rise in car tax has F*ck all to do with the environment.....like someone already mentioned upping taxing on 4x4s is a visual thing......there are many more saloons and small sports cars that guzzle more gas than most 4x4s.
I have a diesel 1.9 4x4 and I get more MPG than most of my friends driving tiny little petrol cars


More tax on fuel would of course make more environmental sense......that is if thats the actual reson.....but we all know it is a way of squeezing more money from us.........they can put whatever vehicles they choose in the higher tax bracket they deem to be gas guzzlers but the real proof would be at the pumps
but they can make more money going down the tax root.

I also agree with the comment of big 4x4 makers going out of business causing huge job loss and economic damage

It certainly wont make people part with their 4x4 cos the price of them will plummit and no one will want to buy cars with such a high tax bracket.....so in effect we wil be stuck with them......and how will this help the environment?
It will certainly rake more money in for the government in tax.....but it will not help the environment one little iota


Instead of charging us all more why not reduce the price of environmentally healthy cars/windmills/solar panels/....it is all so bloody expensive or give us subsadies to convert to LPG......SIMPLE because the government will not gain from this in regards to them squeezing more money out of us
 

airedale

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a very unfashionable zero street cred Nissan made in Sunderland so to me that counts as 'Buying British'

the excuse made by a lot of people for having 4x4 is that they need it to go up hills and cross terrain - to do that it doesn't have to be the size of a small tank

however Arnie S. in california had another answer to the 4x4 issue when challenged about owning and driving two Hummers. One is converted to run on bio diesel and one runs on LPG

Now perhaps if the road tax on 4x4s was also according to fuel type...........that would be more environmentally acceptable - and I am an environmentalist as I have had and used both solar and wind power for my main energy source since 1998 - hence my 'beef' with those who drive in London (and other cities) in general and in 4x4s in London in particular - especially those on the school run

people here have posted about how much it would cost in jobs if 4x4s were priced up higher - but does no-one consider the cost to UK industry due to the goods stuck in traffic jams of 4x4s and people carriers on the blasted school run - the sooner this country gets school buses like the USA or makes kids walk like we used to do the better (or puts a zero parking zone of a 3 mile radius around every school in the country between 8am and 9.30 and 3pm and 4.30 on every school day)

I do agree about the tearing round country lanes - but in all sorts of vehicles, not just 4x4s - it is obscene near me that you cannot do more than 40 mph on a wide dual carriageway with no turnings on or off it and with good visibility and yet you can do legally 60mph on the lane at the end of my drive on a narrow hilly, twisting lane with hidden drives

but then - speed limits are for urban areas where the majority live - not for rural areas which is populated by the minority

also don't forget that mainly rural areas are mainly conservative or libdem and mainly urban areas are mainly labour - so with this gov. the rural area just doesn't count overall
 
L

lilym

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MY MARE WILL NOT GO INTO A LORRY!! i have a trailer that is my personal choice, not all of us can afford lorries you know, and if we all had small boxes we would be stung to the hilt on those too. the freedom of choice is rapidly disappering in this country. i also use my 4x4 for removing things from muddy fields, and the parking at some shows and events means lorries getting stuck all over the place??? you really seem to have it in for the rest of us don't you, well i for one will not be driving some piddling little death trap thanks very much.
 
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