5"4 adult on 12.2hh Dartmoor - thoughts?

[BallyRoanBaubles]

I'm 5'4 and same weight as you and recently bought a 13.2/3 built like the proverbial outhouse fell, this was going down from a 16hh ISH. I dont feel underhorsed at all on him and dont look big on him, he really takes the leg up!

When I was looking I also tried a 13.2 fell that wasnt as well built as my boy, and felt too big on him.

For me personally I wouldnt want any smaller than 13.2 and chunky for my main horse, my fells stride feels no different to my 16hh which I like.

 

[Not_so_brave_anymore]

Nothing is built properly any more. All breeds are becoming lighter framed and lighter of bone. Some of the Shetlands I have seen picking up hoys tickets could pass as small dartmoors better than the breed they are supposed to be ... old fashioned show ponies would not be show hunter ponies, even hunters have become more refined over the years.

All to produce a more sporty animal.

I have an absolutely beautiful 12hh dartmoor, with an illustrious showing career behind her, and I certainly wouldn't put an adult on her! I have to actively remind myself that my 25kg 9yo son is definitely NOT too heavy for her, but he really does look big. By contrast, I've just acquired a proper old fashioned Shetland. At only 36" her legs are half the length of the dartmoor, but double the width. She'd carry my 9yo all day.

 

[Spirit2021]

I am 4 foot 11 and I have short legs I feel like 12 hand pony is way to short for me. I have ridden them in the past for a few people . If you want a pony go for 13 to 14 hand Chucky pony nothing lightweight.

 

[Hallo2012]

As a specialist fitter of natives don't give a saddle fitter this headache, I think there are much better matches. There is the theory of how much weight a pony can carry, and I'm sure a well built Dartie could carry you, there is the practice of actually doing it - finding a saddle that suits both of you, keeping it well maintained and balanced, and avoiding all your weight being on the back of the saddle and ultimately causing damage. See https://www.ahsaddles.com/post/2019/04/30/horse-shopping-saddle-length-part-1

i think a lot depends on rider build surely?

im boney and narrow so despite being tall i can easily sit in the middle of a 15 saddle as long as its flat (show saddle) and my knee can come over the front.

my saddler (specialises in smaller natives) had no issue fitting a 16 show saddle to my 13hh for me and said he would be happy with me in a 15 or 15.5 on a 12hh.

but it also depends how happy the rider is to do everything in a flat straight saddle............i am totally used to galloping and xc with zero knee support now but it can be disconcerting at first!

i am surprised how many people under 5'4 dont like tiddlers, they are SO much easier than bigger more suicidal hysterical sport horse types!

 

[sbloom]

i think a lot depends on rider build surely?

im boney and narrow so despite being tall i can easily sit in the middle of a 15 saddle as long as its flat (show saddle) and my knee can come over the front.

my saddler (specialises in smaller natives) had no issue fitting a 16 show saddle to my 13hh for me and said he would be happy with me in a 15 or 15.5 on a 12hh.

but it also depends how happy the rider is to do everything in a flat straight saddle............i am totally used to galloping and xc with zero knee support now but it can be disconcerting at first!!

Not so many riders ARE as tiny as you though, and you ride really long and can adapt very well. I speak from my 12 years of fitting adult riders to ponies as a large part of my job, and you're more unusual than usual (in a very good way!). For most people a small seat and straight cut would be pushing them onto the cantle. And for many shortening stirrups enough to jump or have a blat means their lower leg is destabilised by the knee being sat on and not behind the block.

Your show saddle probably has very minimal blocks, this reduces this effect, but most riders would find the support inadequate for flatwork. A higher, slightly more prominent block would suit most every riders better than a long thin pencil block as are on most showing saddles.

I can think of only a tiny handful of adults that would be absolutely fine in a 15", AND the pony being absolutely fine of course.

 

[stormox]

You would have to ride like a jockey or your legs would be too far below him to give correct aids. 13.2hh to 14hh would be ok.

 

[BallyRoanBaubles]

i am surprised how many people under 5'4 dont like tiddlers, they are SO much easier than bigger more suicidal hysterical sport horse types!

Agreed, Im certainly a tiddler covert!!

 

[Hallo2012]

Nothing is built properly any more. All breeds are becoming lighter framed and lighter of bone. Some of the Shetlands I have seen picking up hoys tickets could pass as small dartmoors better than the breed they are supposed to be ... old fashioned show ponies would not be show hunter ponies, even hunters have become more refined over the years.

All to produce a more sporty animal.

i agree.
I specifically wanted a chunky sec B with good bone

Not so many riders ARE as tiny as you though, and you ride really long and can adapt very well. I speak from my 12 years of fitting adult riders to ponies as a large part of my job, and you're more unusual than usual (in a very good way!). For most people a small seat and straight cut would be pushing them onto the cantle. And for many shortening stirrups enough to jump or have a blat means their lower leg is destabilised by the knee being sat on and not behind the block.

Your show saddle probably has very minimal blocks, this reduces this effect, but most riders would find the support inadequate for flatwork. A higher, slightly more prominent block would suit most every riders better than a long thin pencil block as are on most showing saddles.

I can think of only a tiny handful of adults that would be absolutely fine in a 15", AND the pony being absolutely fine of course.

its a Black Country Classic so although it has a *knee roll* its a flat roll so basically does nothing once your knee is over it.

it HAS taken some getting used to but its easy enough to do sitting trot in, and easy to move legs for changes etc so whilst most people think "ugh....show saddles" id encourage people on ponies to try a good one (not fylde!)

in your honest opinion, is the same saddle but 15.5 viable on a full up A? i used to have a 15.5 dressage saddle and again just had my knee over the front so i could sit in the middle of the saddle correctly.
im not wide hipped and am fairly narrow in my thighs so not sitting on the back of the saddle or falling out the side of it. I look more top tall than leg long on Raf and on the 11.2hh i school. But a big cresty stallion will balance that a bit.

 

[Hallo2012]

You would have to ride like a jockey or your legs would be too far below him to give correct aids. 13.2hh to 14hh would be ok.

not always. i just use a tiny pair of rounded spurs to allow me to be precise and i am much taller than OP! i school 2 x11.2hh and if they are in front of the leg its not particularly difficult to adapt your leg aids a bit.

 

[sbloom]

i agree.
I specifically wanted a chunky sec B with good bone


its a Black Country Classic so although it has a *knee roll* its a flat roll so basically does nothing once your knee is over it.

it HAS taken some getting used to but its easy enough to do sitting trot in, and easy to move legs for changes etc so whilst most people think "ugh....show saddles" id encourage people on ponies to try a good one (not fylde!)

in your honest opinion, is the same saddle but 15.5 viable on a full up A? i used to have a 15.5 dressage saddle and again just had my knee over the front so i could sit in the middle of the saddle correctly.
im not wide hipped and am fairly narrow in my thighs so not sitting on the back of the saddle or falling out the side of it. I look more top tall than leg long on Raf and on the 11.2hh i school. But a big cresty stallion will balance that a bit.

Welsh As tend to be dippy so a very flat tree, on the long side, may not work as well. As vary, I fitted Uphill James Fox in a 16" but that's super rare, most take a 15" and some a 14", but we don't make half sizes as the trees only come in full sizes, and of course all footprints vary.

I would honestly say you're borderline in that one, just my opinion, but it's very slightly tipping back (fractionally, and it's only a moment in time of course) and you're very slightly behind the balance point of the saddle. You're light and very balance so you probably get away with it, but many riders, even of the same dimensions, wouldn't.

 

[Hallo2012]

Welsh As tend to be dippy so a very flat tree, on the long side, may not work as well. As vary, I fitted Uphill James Fox in a 16" but that's super rare, most take a 15" and some a 14", but we don't make half sizes as the trees only come in full sizes, and of course all footprints vary.

I would honestly say you're borderline in that one, just my opinion, but it's very slightly tipping back (fractionally, and it's only a moment in time of course) and you're very slightly behind the balance point of the saddle. You're light and very balance so you probably get away with it, but many riders, even of the same dimensions, wouldn't.

i have got a new BC on order -classic again but on the native tree which fits us both a bit better now he's fully matured, this is the euro tree and a tiny smidge flat now so can move forward a bit whoch i guess is what you are seeing.
The native tree didnt move at all and sat better on his slightly dippy shape but had to order one M2M in black for dressage!

I would be looking at the native tree on an A too, saddler has already said its the only one that will work for an adult on an A.

 

[Hallo2012]

recent side on pic (you have to ignore the too big prolite under it, they dont do pony size in the super thin style)

 

[sbloom]

It's very borderline as I say, but if you draw a line down through your upper body it's a little behind the centre point of the saddle/tree. Not enough to worry about with your ability but smaller would be more tricky, and obviously we're really talking more about general riders here. So yes it can be done, but it's not ideal and I'd not want to extrapolate your experience to mean it's suitable for many other taller (or heavier of course) adult riders on small ponies.

 

[Elf On A Shelf]

It's very borderline as I say, but if you draw a line down through your upper body it's a little behind the centre point of the saddle/tree. Not enough to worry about with your ability but smaller would be more tricky, and obviously we're really talking more about general riders here. So yes it can be done, but it's not ideal and I'd not want to extrapolate your experience to mean it's suitable for many other taller (or heavier of course) adult riders on small ponies.

You must cringe or avert your eyes when you see a lot of the people riding Shetlands these days ... I know I do!

 

[sbloom]

You must cringe or avert your eyes when you see a lot of the people riding Shetlands these days ... I know I do!

It's not restricted to one breed, all breeds, of all sizes. I see the "holes" in horses' backs, and hear about and occasionally see the hock issues that many say are directly attributable. However I think on this thread we're not quite into that territory, just referring to it as a bit of a warning . And it IS much harder fitting a saddle for a rider that really needs a bigger seat size, when fitting traditional saddles. And generally traditional saddles offer the brands and models with the best trees and panels for native backs.

 

[SEL]

I'm 5'3" and just over 8 stone. My 13h dales x exmoor is wide and has no problem at all with my weight but I do find there is a temptation to shorten my stirrups to get the contact with her sides (I feel my legs are a bit too long and I'm bringing them up). Shorter stirrups push me back in the saddle.

She's in a 16" saddle, but its not sitting correctly so saddler due out soon. I definitely couldn't go to a 15" but I'll be interested in what the saddler says because she is short backed.

I definitely wouldn't go any smaller (she was supposed to be a temporary project) and would prefer her to be a hand bigger.

 

[Flame_]

i am surprised how many people under 5'4 dont like tiddlers, they are SO much easier than bigger more suicidal hysterical sport horse types!

No one's saying that! I'm all for adults on ponies - they are generally easier, handier, sounder, cheaper to buy, cheaper to keep and less of a PITA than big horses but IMO, again generally speaking, 12.2 is kid-sized, once you get over 13.2 you're into the cross-over region.

 

[Tarragon]

It is definitely the case that the limiting factors are both weight, and also length of saddle for the rider.
My 13hh pony has a 17 inch Strada saddle here

 

[maya2008]

I would agree re saddles - both my current and previous New Forests are/were a 16” saddle...so perfectly sized for a small adult.

 

[Gloi]

I had a 13.0 (if he stood up tall) Icelandic for over 25 years and I'm 5'4" and not skinny. We did 1000s of miles over the years and I rode long and was used to my feet being below his belly. He never felt big but he was strong and tough and rarely ailed anything. I couldn't tire him and when we did multi day rides on holidays he thrived on it and was keener each day.
I have a 14.0 pony now and he seems massive.