5 months barefoot but struggling with footiness!

J

jessieblue

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I seem to pop back here every few weeks for some much needed confidence and advice with my barefoot journey. Some will remember my horse had collateral ligament desmitis confirmed on MRI both fronts 5 months ago. Been barefoot since then and had made remarkable improvements in his feet. We have been working well and now back in the school as well as roadwork. My main worry is that although he seems very happy in the menage and on smooth tarmac, he is still footy over any gravel or stoney going. I believe his diet is good. He gets a scoop fast fibre morning and night with a handful high fibre nuts and his prohoof micronised linseed and seaweed. Soaked hay and a small trickle net of haylage. Now stabled 24 hrs (courtesy of livery yard, but trying to find alternative livery with more turnout) I get him out every day either school or road. The lanes I have to ride on to get out on the smooth roads, are very lumpy and very messy with mud stones and crap everywhere, he finds this challenging and even with hoof boots on the front sometimes doesnt seem all that happy. I feel he has slipped back a bit in his comfort on these sort of surfaces although in general we have been doing longer road rides, its just the conditions have deteriorated on the roads which makes it hard to get to good smooth road riding. It worries me every time he gimps over the stones, I start to worry if he is in pain or discomfort and if I am doing right by him. I am very torn as I need to exercise him and cant do menage every day, obviously.

My vet met with my trimmer the other day and reluctantly had to admit his medio lateral balance and heel first landing was hugely improved. His turning on concrete was much improved too so all looked good. This damn footiness seems to persist though. Leading he seems comfortable even over stoney going, but add my collossal weight and he seems to struggle! Its worrying me and I wonder if anyone has advice or experience with same. Do I just need to man up and crack on even if he struggles a bit or should I restrict exercise to comfortbale surfaces, which is basically the yard and the menage!!

Any advice welcome and diet advice too. Am happy to look at that if anyone thinks it could do with tweaking.

http://youtu.be/08uGaX8WwF4
Slo mo vid of how he is currently loading.

http://youtu.be/1WQx0nUG3QQ
Vid of schooling in the menage, just coming back into some canter, very slowly!
 
Hi, fellow hoof nerd ;)
I have think you need to take a look at diet again. Large quantities of Fast Fibre can rob other nutrients. In my case my black horse looked like he'd been tangoed orange over summer. I found that I had to change from Prohoof to Forageplus winter balancer, plus extra MagOx and phosphorus. He has now gone black.
After having our grass and hay analysed I had to vastly reduce the fast fibre and add the new FP balancer. Amazing difference! I up the linseed to keep weight on if need be over winter.

It'll take a few more months for the hoof to fully grow out and toe to come back, more concavity etc. You need to sort the movement as being confined won't help.

PM me if you wanna chat and talk more nerdy hoofiness!! 😉
 
JB have you tested the horse for Cushings? We are finding tons of them, some quite young, whose only symptom is footiness.
 
I had an idea seaweed was not ideal, I stopped using it early on, [well I still gave them a sprinkle just to use it up]
As the current diet is not fixing the problem, I would probably change to speedy beet, non-molassed chaff and ask the pro earth people about the supplement.
Make sure the correct amount is fed if you are soaking all the nutrients out of the forage.
And salt.
I also found hair colour responds to the diet fairly quickly.
Can you lead him over the rocky bits and mount when you get to to the road?
 
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I had found this a couple of weeks ago with my mare who went barefoot in May. We too are in for the winter although we have a small field for very limited turnout. I think it is also to do with circulation and I found that booting her and lots of walking helped. This last week she has been so much better and lovely and free in her walk.
 
Ok, am trying to add pics! Be patient lol!

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Solar views from top RF,LF,RH,LH (I think!)

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Side view top, LF, bottom RF. Below is the LF 5 months ago just after shoes first came off and ready for MRI scan

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These pics were taken after trim 4 weeks ago. Actually I will take new ones as he was trimmed again friday and the hind frogs look even better now. Central sulcus has closed more. I dont have solar pics from 5 months ago, sorry.
 
Trimming the frogs and bars makes my horses footy. Could you ask your farrier/trimmer to leave your horse's frogs and bars alone and see if that helps?
 
Yes faracat, I wondered about this. I use a trimmer, farrier is a no go for barefoot and long story short couldnt go there. I understand why he does as he want to keep thrush at bay and I believe has something to do with centering the frog tissue to stimulate the frog spine (dont quote me on that as new stuff to me but just started to read about it after trimmer telling me) Being as he is stabled 24 hrs at the moment I doubt thrush is the biggest worry. Trying to find another yard by the way. Its a good point tho as he does often seem sore just after a trim for a week or so.
 
I wondered about the frogs, maybe I was lucky, had a horse with good feet and after removing shoes he really never had the frogs trimmed, and the one farrier I asked said he never touched the bars on any horse unless essential to fitting shoe.
I think farriers do it as part of their check for thrush, but to be honest, I think they do a lot of things without thinking too much about it.
This is not meant a a criticism of farriers, I found when I got My Boy going barefoot, and it was working, I was unable to break free from my diet/management routine in case things went the other way!
The rockley management mantra is "less is best", Thing is, good trimmers would be losing clients like me pretty rapidly.
I found one farrier who always trimmed feet to perfection, and Boy was unbalanced for about four days till things settled down, the other farrier trimmed to conform with the feet [slight imbalance] and horse had no problem.
Best thing is to let horse self trim on a tarmac road, and have a rasp to round off the edges every two weeks.
 
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Things that jump out to me:

1. Diet. it might be worth noting that seaweed is a bit of an 'out of date' supplement for barefooters as it is high in iron and iodine which you want to avoid. Forage Plus balancers or Progressive Earth Pro Hoof both contain high levels of copper, zinc, vit e, magnesium, salt which will help with the footiness and overall quality. I'd also remove the cubes.

2. Stabled 24hrs. You might have more problems with thrush and there's a lack of stimulation that would have helped thicken the sole and improve the digital cushion. I spray a mixture of 50:50 apple cider vinegar and water on frogs every other day to keep thrush at bay.

3. Bar/frog trimming. Removing the excess tissue will cause them to go footy. I suspect he's actually not growing a lot of hoof considering he's in 24/7 so it might be that your trimmer is taking more off than needed. I'd ask them politely if there is a reason as he's footy.

4. There's no shame in using boots for hacking over stones. My TB is barefoot but booted for hacking. She gets the protection as and when needed without the implications of shoes.
 
Ok thank you. Yes seaweed is for the biotin I guess. It also helped with getting him to eat the supplements in the beginning, but can leave it out. He is on pro hoof so hope thats a good supplement. I did wonder about the barts and frog causing footiness, so will see if it settles in a week and in the meantime have ordered some foam pads to help. Will also get boots for the hinds I think to make him generally comfy. On smooth tarmac he is very happy, even trotting, it is just the rough unneven stoney roads that we have so many of around my yard. I( treat his frogs with silvestrasol which I was recommended is a very good thrush treatment. I dont see any obvious signs and trimmer seemed happy on friday. By the way cushings test came back negative.

The stabled business has to change. Its not acceptable, so I am looking desperately for an alternative yard. Hate moving but its unavoidable especially after some things I have read on forums today!

thank you all for really helpful input here. x
 
I just wanted to pipe in and say that my mare was footy for quite a while and she was on fast fibre and linseed which Ii thought was great until I found out its treated with lots of stuff so looked for an alternative. I came across Thunderbrook base mix so put her on that and within a week she was sound over everything despite being out on summer grass at the time. That was the only change I made so I wonder if theres something in the fast fibre that doesn't work for some horses as mentioned early. Id also agree an swap haylage for hay. Andd also remember its still quite early days. Hope things get better:)
 
Hmmm, claribella, this is very useful! I just heard the same from someone else as well that ff has lots of things in there you dont need. The rest is unmollassed beet pulp, so maybe just give beet pulp?? Would be cheaper as well Im guessing. Thank you this is well worth a try before I pull my hair out lol
 
claribella said:
I just wanted to pipe in and say that my mare was footy for quite a while and she was on fast fibre and linseed which Ii thought was great until I found out its treated with lots of stuff so looked for an alternative. I came across Thunderbrook base mix so put her on that and within a week she was sound over everything despite being out on summer grass at the time. That was the only change I made so I wonder if theres something in the fast fibre that doesn't work for some horses as mentioned early. Id also agree an swap haylage for hay. Andd also remember its still quite early days. Hope things get better:)
Click to expand...

claribella whats the consistency of the base mix, is it like fast fibre/speedi beet? Does your horse eat it ok and do you feed it with chaff?

thanks :)
 
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