6 year old napper... should I persist ?

[watermill]

I bought my first horse 3 months ago. He is a 6 year old 17.1hh german sports gelding. I am a novice, but my girlfriend has had horses for many years.
We both rode him out at the sellers yard no problems.
He has been hacked with another horse ( 17yr old TB mare) since coming here with no probs, but recently started to nap when first attempts were made to take him on his own, by me and my girlfriend.
We tried getting off, leading him, pushing him on etc but the prob is now worse with him rearing.
Everything else about him is great and in traffic with another horse he is very good. I think it is too dangerous to use a stick/whip when on the road.
We took him to a loval show recently with an old pony for our little boy to do some games on and when seperated from the pony he started to get very uptight, shouting and pulling to get to where the pony was !
Should we persist for the winter? Any ideas please?

 

[Rambo]

Well, he's won the first battle then

Never, ever, get off a horse that is napping. You have far more control on top than you do on the ground.

He's probably trying it on, and you just need to persevere with him and don't let him win any more battles. If he has a tendency to stand up on his back legs when put under pressure, then simply don't put him under any, but be prepared for a long stand off for the first couple of times. I'll almost guarantee he'll give up after a couple of 'defeats'

 

[AmyMay]

As you are a novice I would say that this horse is clearly not for you, I would move him on before some damage is done.

Sometimes we go for horse purely on looks - and I bet he is a cracker. But get something smaller and more common for your first horse. And something that is also older and wiser.

 

[PapaFrita]

Perhaps because I got her off a racing yard and she was used to going out in a string, PF used to refuse to hack out on her own. She would just plant herself to the spot and refuse to go forward. She's still a bit unsure when we go somewhere she's never been before but I got her hacking out on her own by being very patient, very stubborn (more than her) and taking her a tiny bit further (sometimes only a few metres) further than she went the time before.
Good luck!

 

[lennysmith]

I was in this postion a year and half ago. I believe but it is only my opinion, you have 2 options: either find someone who will quite happily sit on him for ages and try and get him off the yard, or, which is what i did, sell him. As a novice your confidence is so so fragile, I am still nervous now thanks to my old nappy mare, and my new girl is a saint.

I hope I dont come across as harsh, I just hear exactly what I was saying a year and a half ago. There are things to be done, ie long reining, schooling will also help as once he listens in the mscholl he should start to listen going out, in theory. However, I was anovice and just couldn't do it. Maybe with help you could? Rearing is a hard habit to break, let alone a dangerous one. One which I believe shouldn't be tackled by a novice.

Goodluck with whatever you decide xxxx

 

[Sal_E]

Alan - there's been a few posts on here over the years regarding napping - it would probably be time well spent to trawl through & read up on it, as there's lots of opinions & lots of advice.

Personally, I think Rambo's advice for a novice rider not to get off a 17.1hh young warmblood when napping/rearing on the road is dangerous - I understand why she's saying it but your safety (& confidence) must come first. I don't really want to get in to this argument again, as I say, see old posts!

Hope you get it sorted.

 

[vic07]

I am sorry but I agree with anymay. My boyf's first horse with a supersafe halfinger. He gained so much confidence from it. But even now he wouldn't cope with your lad. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

 

[Rambo]

[ QUOTE ]
Personally, I think Rambo's advice for a novice rider not to get off a 17.1hh young warmblood when napping/rearing on the road is dangerous - I understand why she's saying it but your safety (& confidence) must come first. I don't really want to get in to this argument again, as I say, see old posts!

Hope you get it sorted.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to clarify....the original post does say that the experienced girlfriend was doing the same. This does imply there is an experienced person on hand to help resolve the problem. I agree, a novice isn't best placed to resolve this issue.....oh and btw...i'm a bloke

 

[SillyMare]

I agree with Rambo - I know there are different schools of thought on whether or not to get off but personally I feel far safer and more in control on top.

Lots of nappy horses just give in if you wait them out - try not to end up in the situation when he feels he has to go up. Just quietly stand, insist he faces the direction you want to go, keep asking 'nicely' and eventually he will go the way you want him to. Pats and praise once he is going sweetly forward again.

A brisk trot can work wonders whenever you feel him starting to think about napping, but you need to be quick to pick up the signs and get him going forward before he really makes his mind up.

Oh, and if he is more confident with company then don't ride him on his own for the time being. Work on getting him to go in the lead but with a nice steady friend who can take over if need be. Over time try to get him to work consistently 2 or 3 lengths ahead of the other horse and only once this is completely established try again on your own.

6 year-old is certinly not too old to break the habit and it sounds as though it isn't too established if he didn't do it when you first got him.

Could you get help from an instructor or experienced friend? Perhaps get someone else to ride him for a while and then get them to ride another horse out with you so they can help if you get stuck.

 

[Tempi]

if you want to sell him he sounds perfect for me

firstly get someone to lead him whilst you are riding - clip a lead rope through his bit ring, get them to carry a long stick and walk on the outside of you and lead you along. It might look ridiculous but it also might work.

i have been through the same problem as you with my mare when i first got her. If he wont go forwards make him go backwards, then when hes fed up of going backwards turn him round and see if he'l go forwards again - if he wont its backwards again. He WILL give in, i did this with my mare and a 15min ride used to take me a good 1hr- 1hr 1/2.......

If you dont want to go hrough all this then sell him on, but make sure you make people aware of his napping problem when you adveritse him

whats his breeding?

 

[Sal_E]

Rambo - I'm stunned to hear you are a man. You've always been a women in my head - very sorry

Alan - I've bumped a post by JoElla for you - it shouldn't be too far away from this one, entitled 'first time of feeling really unsafe'. Well worth a read.

 

[Tempi]

just want to add that what sillymare wrote about a brisk trot is good advice - but i know with Bloss when i got her into trot as i could always predict when she was going to nap - she'd suddenly drop her shoulder on me, spin and try to shoot off. bloss still does this mid trot now and the other day out hacking she had a funny fit and did this and it took me 25mins to get her past this imaginary thing in the bushes........

 

[juliehannah58]

I agree about the leading advice from P-G, but I would not recommend the 'backwards' method with a known rearer, if anything will make a tense horse go up that will!

My strongest advice would be to consult a person with lots of experience so you can work through this problem together, if you want to work at sorting it out you WILL be able to. If you feel it has knocked your confidence too much at this early stage, I would suggest putting him in livery for him to be sold.

Hope you sort out what is best for you

 

[flyingfeet]

Warmbloods can be a pain in the a*se with napping

I had to have huge fights to get mine out of the yard as a 6 year old. He started rearing and completely scared the girl who helped me keep him fit.

I think you are best off letting your girlfriend ride him until he is over the napping.

I was lucky that mine was napping on home ground, so easier than the road (he was refusing to leave the yard). Now he wouldn't dare nap (8 years old).

 

[JoBo]

Oh Alan, I have been there and please, please, please don't give up on this horse!

Have you read my old post bumped by Sal-E?

Well I just thought you would like to know that I'm am confidently hacking Otto (cantering and jumping logs) out all on my own now, and I haven't had a single nap from him for months and months!! So it can be sorted!

I had my instructor come out with me and we walked past those damm ponies he was napping at 100's of times. And ok he still doesn't like them but he does walk past now without even thinking of stopping!

He's only young; maybe he is just lacking confidence in you at the moment? Me and Otto got over our problems and you and your horse can too!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dieseldog]

What a nightmare, bit too late to send it back to who you bought it off without losing loads of money.

If you are feeding lods of hard food to him I would cut it out until you feel like you are in control, keep giving him loads of hay/grass.

When you ride him and you think that he has started to think about napping, although he may not have done it yet, he'll probably go stiff, make him go forward straight away, you need to have a zero tolerance regime and be consistent.

If he does manage to do it and you can't face a fight because of where you are or he is rearing, try to get him to stand and turn his head in the direction you want to go and hold it there - his head should be next to you leg. He will eventually give up and sigh, then ask him to go the way you want, repeat as necessary - this has worked for a couple of my horses who were terrible (or very good) at napping, might be worth a try

Good Luck.

 

[Tempi]

My horse is a known rearer and this is the only thing that will prevent her from rearing, if shes walking backwards she cant rear at the same time - dont ask me how she cant, because i dont know!! but shes never ever reared whilst going backwards and it certainly dosent make her tense. i know a few people that do this with rearers all with good results - i guess it depends on your horse in the end.

 

[Theresa_F]

You have two choices

One - get someone in to sort him out as he sounds beyond what you and your girlfriend can deal with. Cut his feed right back - mine was a nightmare on anything more than chaff and nuts and still had plenty of energy to compete.

Agree with about not getting off, but when you are on your hind legs and going everywhere in all directions on a big lively horse it is not a fun place to be. I only got off Fleur once, but we were vertical in the middle of the road with cars - she had issues with riding but was good handled from the ground.

If he is then ok going out with people but not with you, it is time to consider are you the right match?

You may need to improve your riding or have to accept he is too much horse for you. Sorry to sound harsh, but this is the truth - and I have found this out the hard way.

Two - A bitter pill to swallow, decide you are not made for each other. If you make this decision, sell him and then go out and buy something more suitable to you and your abilities and then learn to have fun which at the moment you don't sound like you are doing.

It took me 5 years of blood sweat and tears to realise that Fleur was not the horse for me. We are now both happy - she is a broodmare and I have my wonderful hairies - I so wish I had not waited so long before realising we did not suit and were never going to.

Good luck with whatever route you take and I would add that there is nothing wrong with admitting you have bought the wrong horse or having to face that you are unable to deal with him.

 

[the watcher]

I was in the same position with a 6 year old last year, and so close to selling her, I can't tell you. but we persisted, we went out in company..pushing her into the lead to give her confidence and schooling alone. I also put her onto a magnesium based calmer that made a huge difference.
Do not underestimate what an impact a change of yard and routine can have on a horse

 

[dunc_n_toby]

Young WB's so bloody quirky! been through that phase, by the sounds of it - no disrespect but you need to hand the reins over to someone more experienced with this sort of thing. He will get out of it but could cause a nasty accident in the wrong hands

 

[OWLIE185]

Your girlfriend was clearly not thinking about your safety or confidence when she found this horse for you. I would suggest that you dump her instantly and find someone that has a more sensible head on their shoulders.

As a novice rider you need a horse that is safe in all situations and you can have fun on. That sort of horse is not bought from a dealer but found locally where it is known for its quiet temprament.

 

[4whitesocks]

for me the question is has he figured out yet that napping/rearing = getting out of doing what he doesn't want to do....if not then you have to not get into that situation until you are sure that whoever is on board can persist until he submits...however the method, be it with a person ahead of you, making him turn etc etc....I have been in this position and I'm afraid my corrective action came too late and the mare had realised that when she napped, reared & spun I was terrified and she got her own way...so the minute she didn't want to do something what she had learnt from her fear of riding out on the roads by herself then translated into her way of getting out of everything....I sold her because I just couldn't cope and had spent 9 months trying to reschool her but in the end she nearly killed someone so...BUT the moral of the story is act now to stop the association, decide on your plan and stick to it if you really want to keep this horse but don't put yourslef in the situation (hacking out by yourself) without having a real plan of action and a determined person on board who really knows what they are doing...

 

[watermill]

thanks everyone for the replies..........just off to work now, will have a proper look when I finish at midnight !!!!!!!

 

[Tempi]

i think thats slightly harsh - i do hope you are joking. Whilst the horse does sound like its too much for him your comment is totally out of order.

 

[Kelly1982]

I personally think that this started as a confidence thing with this horse due to all the changes that have gone on around him recently and now he is using it to his advantage as you have let him get away with it.

You do need an experienced person to ride him through it IMO but my concern would be that even if they did, he may revert back once he realises he has the upper hand again.

 

[vicm2509]

I really do symathise with you, my horse was exactly the same when I bought him and 6 months later with a lot of persistance and lots of help from people on here we have almost overcome the problem.

You do have a few options. But what I will say first is that if you are not 100% confident to carry through with getting the horse to go forward then please do not attempt it as every time you let your horse get away with it by giving up you have effectively taken one step back and the problem will get worse and you will loose your confidence aswell.

I would now say that either your horse is trying it on or he is scared when put in an unfarmiliar situation as he is does not yet trust you to keep him safe (this comes with time).

This is what i did...

My horse refused to walk off the yard, he would run backwards, spin, rear etc and it would get worse the longer I persisted. To start with I got another person to walk infront of him and he was 100% fine with this. Next step was to get the horse off the yard on my own, as soon as he refused to go forward I would turn him around and walk him backwards. This was fine on the yard but if he did it while on the roads it was very scary. After getting someone to walk with me for a few months I decided to have a go on my own.

I leart to anticipate his stops, as soon as I knew he was going to do it I gave him a dig with my spurs and a little smack which worked most of the time. I also found that talking to him all the time and giving him a pat when he was going forwards worked wonders at reasuring him.

If you are on grass then the best thing to do is turn the horse as tight as you can in circles while keeping you leg on (the horse cannot rear if you do this), when you feel ready bring the horse out of the circle and keep your leg on, this should work as the horse learns that no matter what it still has to keep going forwards.

If you dont feel you are able to do this then maybe you could get someone else to ride the horse for you? It is possible that you are waiting for something to happen when you get on him now, he can sense this and it may be making him worse.

Please if you decide to keep him then dont give up, its a long road but im getting there and it really is worth all the effort.

Feel free to PM me if you need any more help.

 

[brighteyes]

This happened to me. He is insecure and needs help from you. Stick with it, as I did and now I wouldn't be separated from my fella for anything. He did the rearing thing and wanting to go back to his friend. Have hacked him out on his own countless times. It may take a while but if you like him, persevere. Firmness is required but if he is genuinely anxious, as mine was, agression will only make matters worse. Be careful out on the roads though. Good luck.

 

[Blizzard]

I had similar thing with a mare, so hoping I can help a bit!

Basically she would nap, rear, buck, spin and even try to roll if she didnt want to do something!
No messing about with her LOL.


what i found was doing more groundwork with her, and lunging her with someone on so she got used to going forward with someone riding her, really helped.

also long rening so she got used to going out alone and being independant, she had driven so this was far more appealing to her.

Vicm is totally right about him sensing your nerves too, perhaps some Bach flower remedies for you and the horse may help a little?
Really he needs someone on him who wont take any crap and wont give in, consider paying for a really experienced Jockey or instructor to ride him at your place.

Everytime you give in it reinforces the behaviour in his head, this isnt your fault though, being a novice you cant be expected t cope with al this, and girlfriend shouldnt have told you to buy a 6yr old warmblood as a first horse, an older, safer hack would have been ideal.

Im all for beautiful horses but my partner is a novice and we are just buying him a 16yr old safe hunter as a first horse, sure we could have got a 5yr old TB for the same price, but the ost important thing for a novice is safety and being on a horse that is quiet enough for you to actually learn on and learn from.

 

[LEC]

I bought my horse in Nov last year and I bought him knowing he was being sold because he naps. He was treated far too nicely and scared his previous owner he came to me and every time he tried it on he got a hiding. He is still not perfect and does think about it but he has learn't who is boss and is 100% better. You can overcome this but you cannot give in!

 

[trelawnyhorses1]

weve had the same prob, alot of german horses are backwards thinkin and ul find it very hard to over come this. as a novice i would sell him if i were u to a v.experienced person or a reputable dealer. we have took our horse who is like this cubbin and trying to make things fun to persuade him to think forwards!!