8 acres, 7 horses?

[Janesomerset]

We were all invited for coffee at our livery yard this morning. Had a suspicion something was going on. The yard has filled up this summer. There are 6 horses, 6 stables, two small barns, a small tack room and about 8 acres of grazing. When we arrived, a chap who used to keep a horse at the yard was also there, and we were all informed he was bringing his horse back tomorrow! The ensuing debate ended in him stonking out and a very uncomfortable atmosphere. One of the horses here at the yard is not currently stabled at night, but what if he were to become in need of the "empty" stable? Our main argument was insufficient grazing. My horse and my friend's horse are muzzled, so we were told "yours don't need grass" but on the contrary it has to be long enough for them to graze! We hate arguments and feel bad about what has happened. Just interested to hear any other opinions! Are we a load of bullies?!

 

[Jesstickle]

Well I have two horses on two acres at my yard and consider myself lucky as others have less per horse. We have a stable each though!

 

[Crazydancer]

We have 10 horses on 10 acres, all live out 24/7, we do have 4 stables for emergencies/convenience, but none are used regularly. The grazing gets a bit muddy in places during the winter, but recovers, and we still usually get a spell in the summer with too much grass.

 

[honetpot]

It doesn't matter wether your horses are muzzled or not you are paying for grazing and its up to you wether you use it. Depending on what part of the country your in they are forecasting drought next year.
I think the YO hasn't thought it through, probabely said it was OK as a favour. Does he need the ag for the extra livery money?

 

[DougalJ]

I'm pretty sure its an acre and a bit per horse - so should be enough. However depends on what type of ground you have, how good the grazing is and how kind the weather is. Our fields have really turned boggy over the last 2/3 days of a bit of rain on it.

 

[FairyLights]

I have 1 horse per 2 acres inless they are in a lot of the time even in summer inwhich case I would put more on but 8 horses to 7 acres is too many horses.

 

[aimeetb]

As of march we are going to have 9 horses on 2.5 acres! Needles to say I am moving!! I understand what you are saying, its so annoying when the YO get greedy! X

 

[Janesomerset]

Thank you for your replies. I should have said that the grazing is on a hillside, therefore dries off very quickly in summer; not too boggy in the winter except around the gates. The 8 acres includes some gorse, shrubs, hedges, trees, brambles etc. plus toilet areas, badger holes and the muck heap! So not really 8 acres available for eating! We think the yard owner did say yes as a favour, (he is not a horsey person really!) but it went rather pear-shaped!

 

[indie999]

Probably not enough but it depends how it is managed too. Not sure if they are in or out at night. If they are in at night then 8 acres will be fine. Re if a horse gets ill and needs a stable am sure someone could accomodate. Mine has lived out 24/7 for most of his life with no need for a stable(in fact he was lame and ended up in a small fenced off paddock as he hates being in and got stressed. Cuts etc he has been out in all weathers on his own too).

Good of the owner to bring you all in to inform you, but if its going to cause so much trouble may be better to find somewhere else, unless if this other guy is paying perhaps you got a reduction in your rates then????for having to share??

Good luck

 

[Enfys]

Are you relying on the acreage to actually sustain your horses without additional forage?

If so, then you may have a point and the old 1.5 acres per horse and 1 acre (or whatever it is) thereafter may be valid, if additional forage is fed then 8 acres for 7 horses is perfectly adequate.

I have up to 15 horses on 8 acres, there is plenty of space for them, and they do very well, never any worries about fatties, my land is more like rough common grazing, with about 3 acres of pasture, the rest is set aside with three separate areas of woodland. I do offer hay for at least 10 months of the year though.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

It always used to be '2 acres for the first horse and 1 acre per horse after that'.
We have kept 5 on 3 acres, although they came in at night and had supplementary hay in the field. We currently keep 3 on 3 acres with no problem. It is different when the horses are at home though.
I do think you are over-reacting, although I understand why you think there should be a stable per horse, especially if you are paying for a stable and turnout/grazing.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Sounds like it's crap grazing, and not enough for the amount of horses you already have there, so yes the stabling would be needed, if the really bad weather comes back, who's horse would have to stay out full time???Did the owner ask you all before this bloke turned up or dropped it on you, and yes you are paying for the grazing and this time of year I would expect the muzzles to have come of as this time of year there is no goodness in the grass.

 

[Enfys]

I am afraid that it is up to the YO as to who comes on the yard or not, nothing to do with you.
You pay for the facilities, and as long as they are available (your choice whether you use them or not) then the YO is fulfilling his/her side of your business agreement. It was extremely reasonable of the YO to actually inform you of what's going on. If you don't like it then you, as a customer, can always vote with your feet and take your custom elsewhere. As to the stable issue, if you pay for a stable then that is yours,presumably as your horse is stabled then it is being fed at night, at this time of year I would look upon the grazing merely as turnout, and as a fan of rough, more natural grazing what you describe is much more preferable than a flat, waterlogged mud hole.
If an extra stable is required then that is the YO's problem not yours Don't worry about it, it is not your concern.

I certainly don't ask my Owners their permission to bring other horses on to my property!
Of course I inform them if a new horse is being introduced to their paddock/group, my Boarders do have the option of single turnout, they know that I am very careful about no crowding, supervise the introductions and first turnouts and have horses in compatible groups, that bullying is not permitted and I am not a "Oh let them get on with it, they'll settle in a couple of days" person. I bend over backwards for my Owners, but they don't dictate to me

 

[freckles22uk]

I think your all lucky, ive got 4 horses (one being a stallion) and 1 pony, and have less than an acre, not by choice I have to add, last year I had 8 horses and a LOT more land with some grazing, but had to move this year due to my divorce,

But, here Ive got no grazing at all, and I have to feed 3 times a day, they all live out, no stables, stallion has his own paddock, but I cant complain, they all seem happy enough..

Bu I guess its what your used too...

 

[Enfys]

As of march we are going to have 9 horses on 2.5 acres! Needles to say I am moving!! Understandable in your case, although in the summer I had 8 on 1 acre!

I understand what you are saying, its so annoying when the YO get greedy! X Hmmm, yes, that ugly old greed thing, mortgage, maintenance, rates, insurance, tax...

Please don't go tarring all YO's with the same brush, it is really annoying.

It is actually beyond me why YO's do it, they'd be better off knocking all their fences down and growing hay as a cash crop If I hadn't spent thousands putting the damn stuff up, and didn't, on the whole, have such lovely Owners, I'd grow hay over having horses anyday.

 

[Honey08]

I think that it sounds manageable, and that it was very nice of the YO to get you all together to let you know rather than just bring the new person on without saying anything!

It does sound as though there is a need of an extra stable though. Leaving one horse out would surely end up in a fuss and even more poached gateways. Although it would be easy enough to partition something off to serve as an emergency stable in one of the barns if need be.

 

[Holly Hocks]

We currently have six mares on two acres at my yard - out during the day for about 8 hrs and in at night - they are all healthy - if not overweight, due to the grazing being good and it never seems to stop growing! However if this situation continues through summer (which I don't think it will as the farmer is pretty accommodating when issues are pointed out to him - he just needs it pointing out sometimes!), then I will be moving my horses elsewhere as they obviously can't stay out 24/7 in summer on it.

 

[HarlequinSeren]

The acreage sounds manageable, but as for the stable issue, personally I would expect the livery who is already there to keep the stable, whether it is used or not as it is part of the facilities they are paying for. The YO would then have an issue of either getting a new stable put up (likelihood?) or the new livery's horse would have grass livery only. It would be unfair to allow the new livery (even though he has been on the yard before) to poach the stable of the other livery who is already there.
HS x

 

[Janesomerset]

I don't think we came across as being dictatorial to our yard owner. I hope not, because we all get on; he is always willing to listen if any of us (or the horses) need anything particular and in turn we do numerous repairs and look after the yard and fields to a very high standard. He asked all six of us what we thought. It would have been better if he had asked before promising stabling which does not exist! As Echo Bravo says, who would have stayed out for a month of snow and ice like we had last winter? All six of us said we feel there is not sufficient grass to support 7 horses all year round, especially in summer when the fields quickly turn to dust. There wouldn't have been any "introduction" or "compatible grouping" either; there are only two fields. The horse who was coming is a recently gelded and quite feisty two-year-old, and the owners of the two elderly horses (one 20+ and one 30+) on our yard were concerned about compatibility. However, our main concern was grazing and it is very interesting and informative to hear different views. aimeetb, hope you find somewhere nice; I used to live in the West Midlands and good livery was a bit scarce there then.

 

[TelH]

I have 4-5 acres with 7 on, they are only ponies, the biggest is 13.2hh and 4 of them are 11hh or under. They all come in at night and there are a couple of months over winter when they get hay in the field. But I manage fine like that.

 

[Fantasy_World]

Please don't go tarring all YO's with the same brush, it is really annoying.

It is actually beyond me why YO's do it, they'd be better off knocking all their fences down and growing hay as a cash crop If I hadn't spent thousands putting the damn stuff up, and didn't, on the whole, have such lovely Owners, I'd grow hay over having horses anyday.

Actually please don't go tarring all horse owners with the same brush either.
This user was entitled to say what she did and no she wasn't aiming her comment at you so why make it sound as though she was getting personal with you?
Also the OP is making a valid point too.
The main reason I have left places is because YO's have got too greedy and built more stables than the land can actually take whilst not maintaining the fields/paddocks sufficiently to stop them from getting poached or horse sick ie no poo picking, over grazing, no firm turn out restrictions in bad weather/winter and no worming programme.
Perhaps more land owners should consider growing cash crops then heh? May sort the wheat from the chaff and we may actually just get the top livery yards run to BHS standards being the norm then besides every Tom, Dick or Harry thinking lets try running a livery yard lark!

 

[amandaco2]

ive got 7acre well draining and 5 horses on it. they come in at night in winter. fields normally have ankle deep grass most the year......
for me its more important they have enough space for the number of horses per paddock and it doesnt get muddy.
they are split into a 1 acre and 0.6acre for one horse and mine get the rest split in half.
ive got 3 empty boxes and thats the way they are staying unless i magic up another 3 acres of land!

 

[Janesomerset]

Thank you for all your replies! HarlequinSer, the chap who wanted to return was quite adamant that his pony must have a stable as he is a show pony, and he made it quite plain that he wanted the large stable currently rented to a fairly recent arrival who has a Shire horse. The Shire only comes in when the weather is particularly atrocious...but we all know how atrocious last winter was. The grazing was our main issue though, and having just looked at all the "skid marks" down the fields this morning after yet another batch of hail and torrential downpours, we think it probably wouldn't have it made it through winter let alone summer! Especially with a new pony causing the inevitable chasing around there would have been. We stand by what we said, but it's very interesting and helpful to hear other viewpoints. Thanks again.

 

[HarlequinSeren]

Janesomerset, and what would the YO expect to happen to the shire horse during the bad weather this year? Personally I think the situation is very unfair on the shire and it's owner, as the YO gave them a turnout AND a stable when they signed their contract, and now the stable is being withdrawn. I would at least expect the price to be dropped for that livery if they agree to not wanting the stable anymore. However they should not be forced out of it if they do not agree as that would be breaking the contract.
This is assuming a contract stating what facilities are available for this livery has been signed?
I agree with you about the turnout as well though, as there would as you say be some chasing in the settling in process for the new pony.
HS x

 

[AmyMay]

Move??

 

[CBFan]

I think 7 horses to 8 acres really isn't that bad! I'd love to have an extra acre to our field!

I think the management of the fields might have to change to accomodate the extra horse but not greatly - maybe sectioning bits off to rest them, maybe feeding hay at certain times of the year , which lets me frank, most of us have to or would like to do anyway. You have two horses than need to be muzzled... surely the best thing for them is to have their own smaller paddock more suited to their needs anyway?

The biggest concern for me would be more horses than there are stables and the fact that it is unfair to ask an existing livery to vacate their stable that they may have plans to use.

As for the snow debate... horses CAN live out in snow contrary to popular belief.

 

[Ibblebibble]

Janesomerset, and what would the YO expect to happen to the shire horse during the bad weather this year? Personally I think the situation is very unfair on the shire and it's owner, as the YO gave them a turnout AND a stable when they signed their contract, and now the stable is being withdrawn. I would at least expect the price to be dropped for that livery if they agree to not wanting the stable anymore. However they should not be forced out of it if they do not agree as that would be breaking the contract.
This is assuming a contract stating what facilities are available for this livery has been signed?
I agree with you about the turnout as well though, as there would as you say be some chasing in the settling in process for the new pony.
HS x

totally this, if the shire owner is paying for a stable then they should have access to a stable, simples
As for the grazing, plenty of yards have more horses than acres so it would be do able with 7 on 8 acres but not ideal.