A bad experience with puppy on beach jumping up - advice please

[Oriel]

I took my young (18 week old) Border Collie down to the beach yesterday evening. The tide was well out and he was having a great time chasing around in the shallow water. There weren't many people on the beach other than dog walkers. A girl aged about 12 walked across our path and my dog jumped up at her - not in an aggressive way but the girl then started to run up the beach towards her parents. Unfortunately my dog thought she wanted to play and ran with her, ignoring my calls to get him back. I shouted 'sorry about that' to the family and resumed our walk.

I stopped to look out to sea a while later and the father of the girl who must have been following me approached from behind and said 'my daughter's got a huge gash on her leg caused by your dog'. I apologised profusely and tried to explain that it wasn't aggression and that he was a young dog. He got really angry and said my dog was going to run up the beach and rip someone's throat out! I was really shaken and think the man sensed it because he then said 'come the revolution you and your sort will be shot' I was horrified

I'm certain that the girl didn't have a 'gash' on her leg - I was feet away from her when my dog jumped up - I expect it was a scratch. I know that it's not acceptable for my dog to jump up and feel upset that he did.

I'm a new dog owner and so am learning all the time (I take my dog to obedience classes and have just started very elementary agility classes). Is this type of reaction from people common? I was so worried he might follow my car that I went round roundabouts twice to make sure I wasn't being followed home.

Obviously I need to gain control of him on the beach when he's excited Can anyone offer advice please?

 

[Sandstone1]

I understand why you are upset, but these days dog owners have to be so carefull.
I have a gsd and am quite used to people looking worried when we pass them.
The only advise I can give is dont let your dog off lead when around kids untill you have a good recall. I know its a pain but people can be very worired about dogs running up to them.

 

[Nickijem]

Oh I do really feel for you but dogs have an incredible ability to embarrass you at times. The man certainly over reacted but as dog owners we do have a big responsibilty. My springer puppy jumped up a man when out walking and he went mad because he had his work trousers on!
My collie did even worse when he jumped into a stranger's car when he was filthy leaving muddy paw prints all over his leather seats! I told him to send me the valeting bill but he never did.
As a previous poster suggested, keep your dog on a lead near children for now and discourage any jumping up by going down to the dogs level to fuss him.
Good luck and try not to worry.

 

[AmyMay]

Do you know what? I wouldn't give it a second thought.

 

[Spudlet]

If you ask Slinky nicely, I'm sure she will tell you all about the time my little darling raided an entire line of picnics on the beach

I'm also sure it was not a gash - I'm sure he was being a drama queen. You get them from time to time! You also know that it was naughty of your pup to jump up too, so it's not like you are dismissing this - it was not a good thing to happen, although all dogs will do these things from time to time, especially as puppies. So what you need to do is to be sure it can't happen again. As suggested, use a lead or long line around people at the moment.

18 weeks is young, so I'm sure it was puppy exuberance, not an attack! But talk to your trainer about socialising your puppy around children. Take him (on the lead) to places with children and just walk him around, getting him used to the way they run about and shriek - concentrate on getting him to ignore them and look at you instead - your trainer should be able to teach you how to train a 'look' command if they haven't done already. You could also take a favourite toy and have a game with him (still on the lead) while you are there - take him to just outside of the distance where he gets interested in the children and have a little game of tuggy or something. You should be able to move closer in time. He will learn that they are not so exciting as he thinks - while you, the person with the lovely toys and treats, is definitely worth looking at.

Finally, make sure that he only gets fussed by people when he sits (you have to boss people about to make sure this happens as you will always get the ones that say they don't mind - yes but other people do mind!) as when his bum is on the floor, he can't be jumping up. If he gets up, make them stop fussing and put him back in the sit.

 

[Oriel]

amymay
Do you know what? I wouldn't give it a second thought.

I have children myself (grown up now) and asked myself how I'd have reacted. I'm sure I would just have just reassured the child that the dog meant no harm and was just trying to play. I did hear the mother say 'oh its a puppy'. The girl actually didn't seem that bothered - she didn't cry out when he jumped up or seem particularly worried by him. With hindsight I should have asked her to stay still and grabbed him - a lesson learned there. I was not alert enough to the danger as there were very few people on the beach other than walkers as it was about 7.30pm.

I do feel that I must do something about his jumping up though because if she'd been a toddler then I guess she'd have been knocked over - although of course a toddler wouldn't have run up the beach which was part of the problem (not her fault I know). The children my dog has been exposed to are always up for a game with him, so he obviously thought she was inviting him to run with her. Obviously I put him on his lead afterwards.

I was really shocked at what the man said to me - I was genuinely scared.

He's pretty good at recall normally but I think he was so excited at being at the beach he ignored me calling him back. How do you get your dog to come back to you no matter what they're doing? Any tips? I can do it at home when I have his attention - I say 'off' and turn away from him - which works. Its when we're out that there's a problem.

I will try going down to his level and see if this helps Nikki - does this work when he approaches strangers?

 

[Oriel]

I was busy typing my response so didn't see your post Spudlet...

The 'beach picnic' scenario makes me feel so much better! I can't imagine how embarrassing that must have been!!!

I have learned a lesson (the hard way). I do think he was an over-reacting bully. I doubt he'd have said what he did if I was a man - I hope its not something that I encounter again.

I will ask my trainer about the 'look' command - we haven't covered that yet. I'll definitely take treats and toys next time.

Something my trainer says that I'm a bit unsure about is that a dog should either be on a lead (a slip lead) or off the lead, nothing in between. She says that those extending leads shouldn't be used at all. I would have thought that taking a dog to the beach on a slip lead would be a tease for them - sort of showing them the wide open space and telling them they're not allowed to enjoy it. What do others think?

 

[EAST KENT]

If there IS a next time make sure to pic the "gash" with your phone,just like in car accidents.Forget it..you have just met the beach bully.

 

[Spudlet]

A long line is better than an extendable lead as you have more control. I'm not an extendable lead fan and we don't allow them in class. I'm interested to hear about the slip lead rule - we don't have those in our classes either, because we work the dogs on both the left (heel) and side (right) and as we swap often when doing heelwork, it's not practical to keep changing the lead over so it's not upside down (the exception we make is for gundog training clients who sometimes come into an obedience class to brush up, as their dogs shouldn't be pulling by that stage anyway so it doesn't matter so much). We wouldn't allow a slip lead on a young puppy I don't think - we would bring that in later on in their training. If a client came with an unsuitable lead, we'd lend them a proper one then explain to them why and ask them to get a new one for class in the future.

Anyway, a long line (a lunge line basically) would go onto the collar or a harness and allow the dog more room to run while maintaining some control. It's a good way to practice your recall with a backup there if you need it.

You should not worry about keeping your dog on a lead on the beach if you need to though. It's the same as always allowing a horse to canter in the same spot - soon, they will start playing up because they expect it! Your dog needs to learn that he goes off the lead at your pleasure no matter where he is - after all, what if you take him to somewhere like the Lake District? He'll have to be on the lead there because of the sheep! He won't see it as a tease, dogs don't work like that. So don't concern yourself there.

And yes, as you may have gleaned - I am an assistant dog trainer and my dog is a lout at times, although not so much these days! He's still not perfect though by any means

 

[NeverSayNever]

oriel i really feel for you. I admit im paranoid about meeting folks like that as with the best will in the world, with all the training and socialisation in place you can never 100% guarantee something like this wont happen. I only let my dogs off in places where there arent other people in the vicinity, we are very fortunate to have acres and acres round us that I can hack/walk and not meet anyone else.

I do of course take my lot to the beach and forest sometimes but Im very very careful. In the forest they are always on the lead as I can never be sure who/what we might meet round the next bend. On the beach I have a definate strategy. They stay on leads until we are at the waters edge and then I have toys with me and I walk the length of the beach staying at the waters edge, basically now and then 'working' them for the toys. Yes they race about together having fun but every few minutes I throw in a 'down' command for them all then a recall, and frequently send toys into the water for recall. This way everyone is focused on me and if I see a family approaching into what I would deem our 'safe' area I recall in getting everyone focused on the toys and either keep them all at heel and toy-focused as we pass or simply pop leads on. The joke of it is that my lot are not badly behaved at all! But Im so paranoid about meeting that 'beach bully' and someone complaining about my guys in this anti-dog society we now live in that I do everything I can to keep them safe.

Once, years ago, I was with my lab at the beach and he took off into the salmon nets!! There was a tractor coming with the blokes who emptied the nets and my lab put on his deaf ears and totally ignored me! Only reappearing with the most handsome fish between in jaws of a very decent weight The blighter crunched and ate most of it before I could grab him and I literally ran off the beach before the men came after me

 

[lexiedhb]

Hmmmmm I would say long line until you have better recall. Not everyone likes dogs, especially those jumping at them/ and or chasing them- cute puppy or not.

 

[Oriel]

Spudlet, our trainer insists on slip leads - if folk turn up to the class with a normal collar or harness she gives them a slip lead. She asks everyone to lead from the left so the leads are always the right way round. Its something that I've not been happy about but being a new owner have just taken what she's said to be the correct way of doing things. The trainer really yanks the lead to get them to walk to heel - not so bad on the larger breeds but some of the little ones look as though they might get hurt.

My dog has a normal collar & lead, a slip lead, a harness, an extending lead and a halti type lead (he doesn't wear it all at once! ). What would you say is the best collar/lead combo for just regular walking/exercising? He does tend to pull.

 

[Spudlet]

I'll PM you.

 

[Oriel]

NeversayNever thanks for your advice. Looking back I feel a bit of a fool for not watching out for potential problems. I'm definitely going to go armed with treats and toys to keep him focussed on me. I think I'll also take hubby or my son for protection!!!

Are the lovely collies in your signature your dogs?

 

[mystiandsunny]

It's your recall really that's lacking. If it was 100%, then you could have called your dog to you before there was a chance to get too close to anyone else. I know people who walk whole packs of dogs in woods/bridleways etc, and never have a problem because all the dogs come instantly. Recall training isn't something you can just do once a week at a class though. It's a way of life almost when they're young. You can't get it successfully just with treats/toys either (as there's always the risk then that something will occur that's more interesting). There has to be a 'what if' - so what if your dog doesn't come? What's the consequence?

I use an old method, that has enabled me to have a JRT that is 100% and can be off the lead anywhere, at any time. Basically, they never get anything without working for it, ever. Even dinner requires 'come' and 'sit', all fuss requires following a simple command (like come, or sit, or down) first. So nothing is ever 'free'. That ramps up the value of fuss as a reward, and after the initial treat training to come, lots of fuss becomes sufficient (your dog won't always be hungry!).

Then once the dog is 90%, you take them to a safe (enclosed) environment and set them up with something FAR more exciting than you are. Let them get engrossed in whatever it is, then call them. They won't come, but you knew that would happen! You keep calling, and walk over to where they are. Grab, them, and pull them back with you to where you are when you started calling, still calling all the while, and making no eye contact or attention at all. When you and they get to where you called them from, LOTS of fuss, and let them go play again. Repeat until they get the idea - come when called, fuss and allowed to play again - not come when called, get grabbed anyway and have to come in a not so pleasant way that takes longer. You can attach a line to their collar if they're a tad fast so you can step on it and get them that way. Then repeat on multiple days with multiple different distractions. I can call mine back from chasing a fox - it works!!!

 

[paddi22]

I'm a dog lover/owner and it drives me mad if people whose dogs aren't trained don't have their dogs on a lead. There's no excuse for letting a dog run up and jump on someone, especially a child.

A woman last year had a lab puppy on the beach, a gorgeous little thing. it barrelled up to us looking to play and jumped on my dad and scratched his leg. The owner didn't really seem to think anything was wrong, but the issue is my dad is elderly and on medication for warfrin and when he bleeds it doesn't clot so it's very serious. i ended up having to bring him to doctors to try and stop the bleeding.

My dog is a narky little rescue jack russell who is terrified of other dogs, and i always keep her on the lead as I don't trust her to run off. It drives me mad when other dogs run up and the owners say "oh don't worry my dog is very friendly!" while my dog it terrified and go on the attack, and i end up wading in to try and split them up.

I've seen owners though who dogs are perfectly trained and behave, and i've no issue with them being off the lead. But if a dog is not perfectly trained i really think it should be kept on a lead. There is no excuse for a dog running up and jumping on others.

 

[NeverSayNever]

NeversayNever thanks for your advice. Looking back I feel a bit of a fool for not watching out for potential problems. I'm definitely going to go armed with treats and toys to keep him focussed on me. I think I'll also take hubby or my son for protection!!!

Are the lovely collies in your signature your dogs?

thank you, yes they are

I use an old method, that has enabled me to have a JRT that is 100% and can be off the lead anywhere, at any time. Basically, they never get anything without working for it, ever. Even dinner requires 'come' and 'sit', all fuss requires following a simple command (like come, or sit, or down) first. So nothing is ever 'free'. That ramps up the value of fuss as a reward, and after the initial treat training to come, lots of fuss becomes sufficient (your dog won't always be hungry!).

i agree with this method Oriel - its particularly important for collies, to be trained this way. If you dont already, have a toy that is 'yours', never let the dog have it without working for it first, make it high value in their eyes. You have to work with that toy at home to build the value before taking it out places but it will help keep the focus for you out and about. No recall can ever be absolutely 100%, you cant guarantee the 'what if'.

 

[cefyl]

I'm a dog lover/owner and it drives me mad if people whose dogs aren't trained don't have their dogs on a lead. There's no excuse for letting a dog run up and jump on someone, especially a child.

A woman last year had a lab puppy on the beach, a gorgeous little thing. it barrelled up to us looking to play and jumped on my dad and scratched his leg. The owner didn't really seem to think anything was wrong, but the issue is my dad is elderly and on medication for warfrin and when he bleeds it doesn't clot so it's very serious. i ended up having to bring him to doctors to try and stop the bleeding.
.

Exactly. Unfortunately there are so many off lead and out of control dogs in North Wales at the moment on beaches many of the beaches will end up being barred to dogs in future summers. My mother some years ago got scratched by a dog running up to her and jumping up at her on the beach, scratched her arm in the fold of the elbow. Now she was fit and healthy, and middle aged at the time but ended up with septicemia, and was very very ill for quite some time.

 

[MurphysMinder]

Just use a long line on him in future in similar situations, he is a puppy and as you say probably got over excited. I wouldn't worry about the chap on the beach, just make sure it can't happen again. My GSD pup is 18 weeks old and she started jumping up and grabbing clothing (not at strangers just family and friends). She had started with just jumping up and I had everyone very well trained to turn their backs and ignore her, unfortunately she then, by accident, grabbed my sons jumper and of course got an instant reaction as he bent down to her to get his sleeve out of her mouth! So she decided this was a great way of getting peoples attention A couple of blasts (not at her) with a Pet corrector spray and she is now getting the message, luckily she is calmer with strangers we meet, but she is always on lead and I make her sit before they are allowed to talk to her. I won't be letting her off in open spaces until I have cured this problem and got a good recall, as you can imagine if a GSD jumps at someone they are quite likely to start screaming dangerous dog.

 

[TarrSteps]

Lots of good advice. You know it was wrong, he had no right to speak to you like that, all water under the bridge, although I well know it's awful when it happens!

Just to pick up a point in one of your posts though, did you say something about allowing him to chase the kids he knows as a game? I know it's great fun but perhaps he's not old enough or even the kind of dog that can be allowed to do that? There are lots of ways they can have fun that don't encourage bad habits. It's also doing the kids a favour to explain to them why the puppy needs to be trained a certain way. I never expect kids to be responsible around my dogs - in fact, quite the opposite - but I do find sometimes kids (and adults) who have dogs can be the worst offenders as they think all dogs are like their own. My younger dog is off limits and it's maddening the number of people who want to ' make friends' with her! By the same token, my OH, who has not had dogs before is a bit inclined to be overly friendly to strange dis

 

[TarrSteps]

Oops. . .strange dogs, even ones I'd steer well clear of.

If the puppy thinks screaming kids are for chasing it's at best confusing, at worst potentially dangerous.

Sorry if I've got it wrong - on the phone so tricky to read back - but I thought it worth bringing up!

 

[Oriel]

Hi, thank you all very much for the very good advice.

Tarrsteps - he doesn't chase the other children as such. The ones he comes into contact with generally are generally around 10-15 yrs old (children of friends) and have dogs of their own. They greet him with much fuss and he leaps up, etc. Now that I see the danger I will ask them just to ignore him until he learns to sit to be petted.

Obviously I'm not happy that my dog jumped up but I've learned so much this morning and am pleased that, hopefully, my dog is still young enough to learn before things get out of hand.

 

[NeverSayNever]

good luck Oriel -Im sure you'll be right on top of it now, its not the end of the world hun, these things happen, to everyone at some point! Can we see a piccy of your lovely pup?

 

[Oriel]

I'd love to upload a picture but can't work out how to do it. I've clicked on the insert image and its asking for the URL

Can anyone help please

 

[NeverSayNever]

I'd love to upload a picture but can't work out how to do it. I've clicked on the insert image and its asking for the URL

Can anyone help please

you need a photobucket account, its quick and easy to sign up. You upload your pic to there then copy and paste the image URL into your post here and it will appear as if by magic

 

[TarrSteps]

you need a photobucket account, its quick and easy to sign up. You upload your pic to there then copy and paste the image URL into your post here and it will appear as if by magic

You can also upload to your HHO album. Go to the Control Panel - "User CP" at the top left of this page - click "Photos & Albums". You can then add a photo from your computer and when it's downloaded and you click on it it will have both a URL and a BB code underneath. When you click "insert" in your post copy and paste in the BB code (no idea if the URL works too - it probably does) and voila, a photo. You can also add other photos into the album for people to see.

 

[CorvusCorax]

While I agree they are rubbish for training and not for using near roads or with untrained dogs, I do use an 8m flexi for my GSD at the beach - having said that he obeys commands at a distance and recalls (these days when he thinks I am going to throw something into the sea for him), it's more for people's peace of mind at the beach as an offlead GSD running around can freak people out. So it might be an option once you have recall cracked.

I do always have the dog on the left for heelwork so slip leads are not an issue but that's a style thing I think!

 

[Littlelegs]

Lots of good advice already. Don't take Mr beach bully to heart, I have a dog who is incredibly obedient, never approaches anyone or does anything, won't even play with other dogs or kids if they instigate it unless given permission. I also have a little girl, so whilst I don't take him in playgrounds walks are often places you meet families. Because he looks very much like a doberman, I am pretty immune to random morons telling me he shouldn't be in public, should wear a muzzle by law, potential child killer etc. Usually from a distance while dog at my side. And often by other dog owners clutching snappy little dogs.
Really, it shouldn't be the end of the world if a puppy gets a bit silly, but so many people have the view dogs should all be on leads its best to train them well enough that no-one has a valid complaint.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

Long line til you've perfected your recall.

Ignore the beach bully, sounds like an idiot.

Elementary agility at 18 weeks? Whose idea was that?!

 

[NeverSayNever]

Long line til you've perfected your recall.

Ignore the beach bully, sounds like an idiot.

Elementary agility at 18 weeks? Whose idea was that?!

doesnt have to put a strain on joints hun, no jumping or high impact stuff ... i used to run puppy agility classes from as soon as theyd had jags and were allowed out. All mine start as soon as i get them home, the foundations are vital. Its all play based fun