A bit of a dark question: how would you feel...

A lady local to us was found dead lying beside her newly purchased mare.

Couple of weeks later I went with my friend to trial a horse at a local dealers. Beautiful mare, did everything asked of her very sweetly. Can't remember why friend didn't buy her.

Couple of months later said mare freaked out and almost killed new owner. Yes, it was the first mare. No one knew why, but I'm afraid she didn't get a third chance.
 
My old horse was sold to me after a fatality.
He was an eventer and had been out on a course that by all accounts should have postponed due to weather.
His previous was a bit of a 'To hell with it' type. Sadly they came unstuck and rider received terrible head injuries and sadly lost his fight a few days later.

My boy was a bit head shy when I had him but I never took him back on a XC course again. He was never blamed for the accident as I think it was a combination of factors and certainly no malice on horses part.
 
Not a fatality, but a couple of years ago, I was riding my young pony in the arena. Livery wanted to ride with me, but she was nervous and was dithering over getting on. She totally caused the accident :mad: , clattering the mounting block with a whip, scaring my pony, who set off broncing, I griped to stay on, scared pony more (had only been started 2 months and just getting established incanter) I came off at a broncing gallop on a frozen arena. (was only ment to be working in walk ). Pony was very very distressed as I had broken ribs and badly winded myself, along with damaging my spine and hip. Livery threw her in stable tacked up while air ambulance arrived. Dont remember much as on strong drugs,in hospital for 3.5 weeks in total. :(The Mark Davis Injured Riders Fund employed a groom to look after my 5 ponies and the liveries horse (was ment to be part livery, but she got free full livery off a charity for 8 weeks with no donations cheeky cow). Pony was very quiet and very shut down. Livery spread it about she was a dangerous pony and she could not bring herself to look or handle her after what pony had done to me. (When realy it was all her fault it happened)

Groom said pony would stand with head incornor of stable and rock (like a mentally disturbed person) totally in her own world. The 1st she saw me, I managed to get to the front door with a zimmer frame. She freaked. She tried to run away, then stood and shook all over and totally shut down into herself. I kept talking to her till she came round, and she would not look at me or come near. After 3 months I could handle theponies again, I had a disturbed pony,and many who would have nothing to do with her after livery had said stuff. 2 yrs down the line, I have a loving and loyal pony. Still building confidence. SHe canstill withdraw into herself, but is getting better. All who saw her, are adament she thought she had killed me. I dont know, and I dont care. I will never know how she was treated in the 2 weeks before the groom was employed. Maybe its best I never find out. She does not have a nasty bone in her little body. Pony had a crap few weeks of handling all coz of how the livery was with her. Many of the people who knewher with drew from her, apart from my trainer, who agrredwith me, not her fault, a freak accident caused by livery, that is now in the past and lets move on. He was the only person to believe in us both.

I can understand peoples revoltion to a horse that has killed, maybe if it was on purpose, the horseshouldne be ridden again, if an accident, well, why blame the horse(apart from it being human nature). I appologise if postnot very coherent, have taken painkillers for the night....:eek:
 
Like everyone says, it depends. Less worried about a xcountry fall, I think, as it can just be a matter of inches as to whether someone is killed/injured/completely unhurt, unless the said horse had a history of falling. Didn't Lucinda Green write somewhere that some horses seem sometimes to get frightened and "deliberatly" fall so they retired from the round?

A fatal fall can be a very unlucky landing from a generally reliable horse, or a horse that seems intent of getting rid of its rider either by bucking, dropping shoulder, spinning, or lots of other nasty devices. A couple of my horses have had an occasional buck, but neither delivered that final wriggle that would have unshipped me, whereas an awful lot of horses do seem to want to get rid of the rider. Some horses trip and fall and that may be a one off or a chronic condition.

I know a lady who had an extremely serious fall - the horse bucked and bucked and she fell with great force - and she had it PTS as she didn't want anyone to try to ride it again. She had given it lots of chances and she was the only one to ride it, but it ended her riding career.

So, it would just depend on the circumstances of the fall. I can understand why it might put people off.
 
The horse I ride for a friend has a reputation for being a rearer and has been known to go up and over and land on her rider causing some bad injuries and an airlift to hospital. The reason for her rearing was being pushed out of her comfort zone by a rider who thought she knew best. She had been warned that this horse did not like hacking on her own but decided to do it anyway :( That was 5 years ago and the horse hasn't done anything like this since. She has hacked out in company just fine and been to shows etc since then

I have been riding her in the field, bringing her back into work and she is the sweetest mare. Not very confident but as long as the rider is and tells her what to do rather than ask she is fine. Once you have her trust she will try her heart out for you.

I asked her owner if I could ride her and she was shocked. She has always been honest about the mare's past which has put most people off :( As her owner says 'You don't need to be the best rider in the world but you do need to be confident and tell her what to do' Well that about sums me up as I'm not the best rider in the world but I'm fairly confident :p


Well that was a bit of a waffle but I guess what I'm trying to say is it doesn't bother me in this case. If it had been a fatality in the same circumstances I don't *think* it would bother me but if Ebony had done it with intent to hurt her rider then yes it would.
 
Ellies_mum2 said:
The horse I ride for a friend has a reputation for being a rearer and has been known to go up and over and land on her rider causing some bad injuries and an airlift to hospital. The reason for her rearing was being pushed out of her comfort zone by a rider who thought she knew best. She had been warned that this horse did not like hacking on her own but decided to do it anyway :( That was 5 years ago and the horse hasn't done anything like this since. She has hacked out in company just fine and been to shows etc since then

I have been riding her in the field, bringing her back into work and she is the sweetest mare. Not very confident but as long as the rider is and tells her what to do rather than ask she is fine. Once you have her trust she will try her heart out for you.

I asked her owner if I could ride her and she was shocked. She has always been honest about the mare's past which has put most people off :( As her owner says 'You don't need to be the best rider in the world but you do need to be confident and tell her what to do' Well that about sums me up as I'm not the best rider in the world but I'm fairly confident :p


Well that was a bit of a waffle but I guess what I'm trying to say is it doesn't bother me in this case. If it had been a fatality in the same circumstances I don't *think* it would bother me but if Ebony had done it with intent to hurt her rider then yes it would.
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Horse wont hack out on its own and rears and falls over backwards if asked to. Mike quietly reaches for a gun.
 
A close friend of mine died a few months ago, from falling from her horse. She was riding on her own and no one knows what happened. Luckily for the mare, some one else on the yard has taken her on. But, with not knowing what happened on that quiet hack that resulted in my dear friend losing her life. I'm not sure I would be happy to take the mare on myself, I have ridden her since and she's been fine.
 
Seahorse said:
I'm not sure how I would feel. I had a fall from Axey when he was a 3 yr old and badly broke my leg, it wasn't his fault at all (he nearly fell down a rabbit hole that suddenly appeared in the indoor school) but afterwards a lot of people told me I was mad to get back on him!
At a horse rescue centre in Lincoln I went to there was a horse there that had killed his last 3 riders, I don't know the exact details but it makes you wonder why something wasn't done with him after the first 1 or 2! But then some horsey people like a challenge...
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Do you mind me asking where in lincoln that was?
 
Ellies_mum2 said:
Each to their own Mike. I've known this horse for 3 years and I honestly believe if the time is taken with her she will hack on her own and be safe doing so.
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Its not the baulking at hacking out ,or the rearing ,its the willingness to throw themselves on the ground (or lack of intelegence not to). A horse like that is never safe.
 
All depends on the circumstances surrounding the fatality. In the above case I have to agree with Mike. Lifes too precious to risk on a horse which is quite prepared to throw itself over onto you.
 
Mike007 said:
Its not the baulking at hacking out ,or the rearing ,its the willingness to throw themselves on the ground (or lack of intelegence not to). A horse like that is never safe.
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I have spoken to the owner about this this evening and she was there when the mare went over (didn't own it then) and she feels the riders lack of balance pulled her over. I've no way of knowing if this was the case or not but so far she hasn't put a hoof wrong with me. Once the weather has picked up and she is shod again (rubbish feet :( ) I will try her out hacking and take it one step at a time
 
Good luck and remember it is difficult for a horse to rear if it is turning. I hope it all works out for you but remember there isnt a horse that is worth dying for.
 
Mike007 said:
Good luck and remember it is difficult for a horse to rear if it is turning. I hope it all works out for you but remember there isnt a horse that is worth dying for.
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Thanks :)

I will be very careful especially as I have my own youngster to back in the summer.


Oh gawd I sound as though I have a death wish don't I? :o
 
Just an observation for what its worth. When you do your youngster,obviously you are sensible and will take things calmly.But try also to adopt a frame of mind that says to the horse, If I am not concerned ,you must not be. A lot of folk try to shield horses from things that they believe might scare the horse. My experience is that if you are confident your horse will gladly follow your lead. A horse must learn right from the start to put his trust in man (ok Woman too) Sadly this trust is often abused.I love long reining young horses ,past everything !!I will never be a great rider but at least at this I know I can do a good job. Please excuse my new years eve ramblings.
 
This is something i have actually discussed with my family who are all horsey riding is a high risk sport we all ride hunt my dad point to points if i was injured or killed i would expect the horse that did it to be kept just the same.

If a horse has become a danger to ride then ok dont ride it but horses do not have the concept of trying to injure kill or maim they may react in an extreme way to what is happpening to them but they do not have the intention to do harm as they can not understand that concept whatever we may chose to believe.

If i ended up with a horse whose previous rider had had a fatal accident on it
i would see that as very sad but would not let it put me off the horse.

I would never hold a grudge against a horse that injured me take precautions yes, but that is just the nature of the sport.

While they can be dangerous they do not have the malicious intent humans can against each other.
 
Mike007 said:
Just an observation for what its worth. When you do your youngster,obviously you are sensible and will take things calmly.But try also to adopt a frame of mind that says to the horse, If I am not concerned ,you must not be. A lot of folk try to shield horses from things that they believe might scare the horse. My experience is that if you are confident your horse will gladly follow your lead. A horse must learn right from the start to put his trust in man (ok Woman too) Sadly this trust is often abused.I love long reining young horses ,past everything !!I will never be a great rider but at least at this I know I can do a good job. Please excuse my new years eve ramblings.
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I tend to have this attitude with Bella. We go out for walks and have encountered push bikes, push chairs, road works, as well as the usual assortment of cars, lorries and buses. She will happily walk along with me and not bat an eyelid.She is happier when a vehicle over takes at its normal speed rather than creeps along behind waiting for an opportune time to pass. A big change from when we first went out when her eyes were on stalks, everything was scary and she grew a good hand :p





Sorry OP :o Didn't mean to sidetrack your thread
 
I've had one that later was told killed a girl, obviously it was not a nice thing to here but I didn't treat or feel any differently about the horse, end of the day it depends on the circumstances of what happened, so others could feel differently I imagine.
 
stevieg said:
She certainly is! Thats one hell of a scar :eek:
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^^totally agree with that.

I also agree with most and if it wasn't the horses fault, ie rotational falls where xc is a major risk anyway then it would be okay for someone to get back on. If it was generally the horses fault like rearing and going over backwards etc then I wouldn't be so keen.

Also you must consider how the horse must feel, just think if they are used to one person riding/caring etc for them all the time, then all of a sudden they never see them again and people are very cautious around them? It must not be nice for them either.
 
For me, it comes down to circumstances.

I found out that my boy had reared, rider fell off, hurt her back and was airlifted to hospital (two weeks before he was advertised). I'd owned him for a few months when I found out and it did bother me so I found out what happened. Horse was asked to stand whilst the other horses went off for a canter. Horse got upset so rider turned him round so he couldn't see the others. He's a very nervous horse and not a situation I would have put him in. He's never showed any sign of rearing with me so it's not something I think about.

I want to know where the line is though.. i.e. should we tell potential buyers/riders upfront or wait till they find out?
 
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