A bit with more stopping power?

[Lydiamae]

Hi everyone. I bought a 4 year old section D cross sports horse about 7 months ago. We did a few local show jumping shows over the summer, in which he was stressy, nappy and refused at. He has a cracking jump at home, I really think he was just nervous away from home. Monty now 5 years old, we now haven't been out for 4 months and have been training and schooling as much as possible at home. Yesterday I took him to do 70cm and 80cm arena eventing. He was super calm and well behaved throughout, which is a huge change from last time. He loaded well, and jumped a clear round and a 4 fault round and even got a rosette! No refusals!! I was a very proud momma, but he was very VERY strong! I could hardly hold or steer round the course, he kind if felt like he was saying 'mom I know what I'm doing, I'm good at this now'. I wanted to collect my canter going into the fences, as we do at home, but I couldn't. I'm quite a strong person and I couldn't! He is currently in a gag, usually middle hole, but yesterday it was on the bottom. I have been recommended a pee wee, a kinerton or a French link butterly flip bit? Can anyone advise or recommend please? Thanks in advance!! X

 

[be positive]

He has obviously come on but is still green and inexperienced at shows so much the same as a dressage horse that goes well at home getting it out means you usually lose 20% of what you get at home, that he was forward and enthusiastic about the jumping should be enough this time to build on.
At 5 he is unlikely to be ready to collect his canter into his fences, most youngsters need a bit of speed to jump a course and at that height he is probably best left to jump out of his stride with the rider just maintaining a good rhythm on the way round, once they get confidence you can start to make more changes if you need to but for me a gag on the bottom ring is more than enough and I would be looking at reducing the bit rather than bitting up at this stage of his life, he needs to come back from your seat not your hands.
I would discuss bitting with your instructor and see what they suggest, I would now be working on getting him softer and jumping at home in a snaffle rather than moving up, he may well be less strong next time once he relaxes more, over bitting can cause a horse to back off its fences which you really don't need in a youngster that is just getting started.

 

[Shay]

The problem with putting a stronger bit on such a young horse is that you might start to get him thinking backwards which builds up problems for the future. Be positive is right - you would be better working toward a snaffle only at home and perhaps the middle ring of the gag as a max when out XC etc. All the bits you've listed are quite severe - especially for something so young. He's got years of education yet to go - you are doing absolutely the right thing getting him out and about, seeing new places, experiencing new things. As he grows both physically and mentally he'll be ready to do what you need. If you don't already have a good instructor experienced with bringing on young horses that would probably be worth getting too.

 

[soulfull]

Agree with the others. Also you may well find he is strong because he needs to go a little more forward than you are used to. I had exactly the same with my youngster. I realised the more I held her the stronger she got.
So at home I worked on tiny fences with very little contact, allowing her to go it alone and just sitting quietly. If she got silly strong I would stop her and back her up (not in front of a fence ). She was soon much happier and so was I

 

[eggs]

I agree with what the others have said. I had a keen jumping mare some years ago who was older than your horse but after trail and error I discovered that putting stronger bits in was counter productive and eventually I ended up jumping her in a happy mouth snaffle.

I would suggest having jumping lessons at home with an experienced instructor and see what they suggest.

 

[Rosesandhorses]

I completely agree with what everyone has said, but as the owner of a super strong event horse I sympathise as well! I use a Waterford three ring gag for everything and ride on the middle ring at home and move this down a hole when I am out competing. I find the Waterford action stops him from taking hold and it may be that you can ride on the snaffle ring. I have always been a big advocate of less is more and my horses have always been in happy mouth snaffles but as soon as I got this horse my instructor told me not to be scared to put something stronger in as I had to have brakes for what I was doing (to make it safe!). Over time he has softened and lightened his contact which has made me able to ride him in a snaffle when I do my dressage. My instructor is very much of the thought that I should ride in whatever he works best in. I am sure there are lots of people who are going to disagree with me though

 

[Shay]

Not at all. We use an NS elevator which has a waterford mouthpiece for our strong SJ'er. (And an NS Baucher for his dressage). But a lot does depend on the age of the horse and the experience of the rider. Yes ride in what suits - absolutely. And safety is paramount. But a stronger bit in such a young horse as OP's is less than the ideal response. Better to get the schooling and education right from the start where you are able to do that - having bought such a young one it would be a pity to ruin it! But if you have a super strong older horse whose mouth might already have been toughened or who has already learned what not to get up to then a stronger bit is an entirely reasonable response.

 

[be positive]

I completely agree with what everyone has said, but as the owner of a super strong event horse I sympathise as well! I use a Waterford three ring gag for everything and ride on the middle ring at home and move this down a hole when I am out competing. I find the Waterford action stops him from taking hold and it may be that you can ride on the snaffle ring. I have always been a big advocate of less is more and my horses have always been in happy mouth snaffles but as soon as I got this horse my instructor told me not to be scared to put something stronger in as I had to have brakes for what I was doing (to make it safe!). Over time he has softened and lightened his contact which has made me able to ride him in a snaffle when I do my dressage. My instructor is very much of the thought that I should ride in whatever he works best in. I am sure there are lots of people who are going to disagree with me though

Safety is paramount a strong horse that will not come back xc is an accident waiting to happen but there is a difference between an older established horse that thinks it knows best and wants to get going at his own pace and a young horse that is still very green which requires careful riding to learn his job, if you put a stronger bit in every time you think you may need one there will be nowhere left to go after a while.
Many horses need more than a simple snaffle but the aim when starting a youngster should be to use as little as you can get away with so they can concentrate on the job in hand and not be afraid to go forward into the fences, at the heights the OP is jumping the horse should be learning to jump sweetly out of a rhythm which may feel faster than at home, having started many youngsters they do tend to rush a bit until they learn to relax and settle, resorting to what is a fairly serious bit, in my view the dutch gag is more than I would want to be using anyway, will possibly cause a young horse to back off, especially as it did early on, I would be schooling and getting out a few more times before considering extra brakes.

 

[Rosesandhorses]

I completely agree with the schooling and education part, especially with a young horse. I think, regardless of the age, schooling and education should be the first port of call to helping alleviate the problems suggested. For me I reached a point with my horse where I was being limited in bringing him on due to him being strong so the bit change was a part of being able to develop his schooling. I would highly recommend the Neue Schule bits though as well!