a horse that wont respect or listen

It is YOUR job to make the horse listen to you, by learning how to make him understand what you are asking. If you do that clearly and kindly, he will respect you. What I do is train my horses properly. What I suggest you do is get a good trainer to explain it to the horse, then teach you how to do it too.
 
Cortez said:
It is YOUR job to make the horse listen to you, by learning how to make him understand what you are asking. If you do that clearly and kindly, he will respect you. What I do is train my horses properly. What I suggest you do is get a good trainer to explain it to the horse, then teach you how to do it too.
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Thanks so what would you do if two international riders said he wont listen to them? Ha (not funny... nervous laugh)
 
Hes 4 but not your average 4 year old. Just has his head in the clouds but once u tell him no he can lose his temper like buck and rear until you fall off. All health checked

Best in the world just we are having a few teething moments at the moment. I never met a four year old like him just wondering if anyone has had one like him before and came back right in the end. On thw ground hes good and loads etc brilliant but I dont no why everyone has an issue riding him...
 
He's four, bucks and rears until you fall off.....you've never met four year old like him....How many four year olds have you met? Who broke this horse? Just sounds like extremely poor training to me.
 
Your horse is either suffering from the effects of a very poorly done backing / starting or he's got a physical issue and this is the cause of the bad behaviour .
Lots of badly started young horses are very very challenging .
Before I put another professional at risk if he were mine I would go for a 'problems with performance ' type work up from a vet who specialises in this type of work .
 
What exactly are you asking this 4yo? Breed? Height? What are you doing with him?

All the others are right to question your methods.
 
i have a horse who when 4 years was very difficult, one of the reasons being he is very very intelligent, he could out think humans, he is now 8 and training on very nicely, loves to work, its clicked that cooperation is rewarding and he has discovered he enjoys working with a human instead of being defiant, when i am in the yard his eyes follow me everywhere, to me 4 years is very young, and i always remember the saying, the wildest colts make the best horses.

its easy to give up on a horse like that, my horse would have seriously played up if i had directly challenged him, i never did, i worked with what he offered and tried to be patient, not always easy, we are the trainers it is our job to find a humane way to show the horse the way forward.
 
Cluelessblonde said:
Hi all
Has anyone ever had a horse that wont respect or listen to you on their back?
Did they come out of it and what did you do?
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I don't believe any horse does not want to respect or listen to you, even more so when they are nice on the ground, they either have a physical problem that has not yet been picked up, many things are extremely subtle and will be missed on normal vet or physio checks, or the horse doesn't understand what the rider is asking so react in a "normal" equine way by bucking or rearing to show they are confused.

It is down to the trainer to make a judgement on which of the 2 options it is, there is not an option 3 in my experience, it will probably prove to be physical with this horse if the trainers involved are at the level they are it is unlikely they have done such a poor job of communicating with the horse but it is possible.
 
I can honestly say that no, I have never had a horse that didn't learn from the correct training. Plenty that I have bought have been poorly trained by someone else who would absolutely claim the horse wouldn't "listen to or respect" them.

So to be blunt, there is something wrong with your horse or your training. I'm afraid it really is as simple as that.
 
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I've just found out my saddle has a twisted tree (saddle 12 months old & refitted twice in that time). Not surprised my youngster was resistant under saddle & bucked me off!
 
tristar said:
i have a horse who when 4 years was very difficult, one of the reasons being he is very very intelligent, he could out think humans, he is now 8 and training on very nicely, loves to work, its clicked that cooperation is rewarding and he has discovered he enjoys working with a human instead of being defiant, when i am in the yard his eyes follow me everywhere, to me 4 years is very young, and i always remember the saying, the wildest colts make the best horses.

its easy to give up on a horse like that, my horse would have seriously played up if i had directly challenged him, i never did, i worked with what he offered and tried to be patient, not always easy, we are the trainers it is our job to find a humane way to show the horse the way forward.
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This is him he is super intelligent. Yes he was badly backed but as I said this is before me he had the fights. Which I am not impressed about at all. Hes not spooky at all hes passed and been driven by a trailer kids and dogs while a stallion the other side messing in the field and behaved like a perfect gent. I am not giving up on him what so ever just wondering has anyone had some similar experiences. I just never met a horse who has absolute no interest in listening or paying attention to someone on his back... its very hard to describe to be honest. Hes got cruising and king of diamond. I know cruising can be difficult I have had a few before. No health issues so far. Just never met a horse litterally more interest in anything other than the rider on his back.
 
My horse was like this - a poppet around people and on the ground but to ride just seemed not to be able to cope with listening. He had genetic Kissing Spine and when backed, initially he could cope, but when asked to start using himself correctly he'd panic and throw himself around so much that not many feet were on the floor at once.

He was bi-laterally lame, but it took the vets 2years to diagnose because he was only very mildly lame as we couldn't push him in his work for it to show up more because of his behavioural problems. He was only 15.1hh as a 4y and did 40minutes of non stop broncing, bucking and rearing in just one of our nightmare schooling sessions with a 6ft male AII who then proceeded to tell me he was sold to me as he was malicious and the owner obviously wanted to get shot of him!!!! I think this particular international instructor overfaced my young horse who we now realise was in pain and asked to much of him at such a young age that it then established panic attacks that I still have to deal with on a regular basis albeit with less intensity to this day and he is now 17.

I managed to get my old instructor back who had a much kinder attitude and it allowed him to move forward and for us then to be able to get more of an idea that there was a problem and that he wasn't just being difficult.

It was very scary and he was recommended PTS as a 6yr old unless we operated which I did without hesitation and it was successful.

I guess the moral of this story is that there is probably something going on physically with him that you haven't found yet and that maybe a softer attitude and taking smaller steps to start off with for such a young horse could help. We found doing groundpole grids etc to keep him interested and moving in different direction constantly so he couldn't think about anything other than forward was very helpful to.

Good luck, maybe it is just his personality, but it may not be.
 
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BethH said:
My horse was like this - a poppet around people and on the ground but to ride just seemed not to be able to cope with listening. He had genetic Kissing Spine and when backed, initially he could cope, but when asked to start using himself correctly he'd panic and throw himself around so much that not many feet were on the floor at once.

He was bi-laterally lame, but it took the vets 2years to diagnose because he was only very mildly lame as we couldn't push him in his work for it to show up more because of his behavioural problems. He was only 15.1hh as a 4y and did 40minutes of non stop broncing, bucking and rearing in just one of our nightmare schooling sessions with a 6ft male AII who then proceeded to tell me he was sold to me as he was malicious and the owner obviously wanted to get shot of him!!!! I think this particular international instructor overfaced my young horse who we now realise was in pain and asked to much of him at such a young age that it then established panic attacks that I still have to deal with on a regular basis albeit with less intensity to this day and he is now 17.

I managed to get my old instructor back who had a much kinder attitude and it allowed him to move forward and for us then to be able to get more of an idea that there was a problem and that he wasn't just being difficult.

It was very scary and he was recommended PTS as a 6yr old unless we operated which I did without hesitation and it was successful.

I guess the moral of this story is that there is probably something going on physically with him that you haven't found yet and that maybe a softer attitude and taking smaller steps to start off with for such a young horse could help. We found doing groundpole grids etc to keep him interested and moving in different direction constantly so he couldn't think was very helpful to.

Good luck, maybe it is just his personality, but it may not be.
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Thanks I actually didnt mention that we have already went completely back to basics and he has been quite good compared to what way he was at the start.... but were still struggling a bit. But he really is my little star I always get a big sloppy kiss off him so hes a little charmer.

Just looking for similar experiences so im not deluded that it will work out.
 
If he's 4 and has been badly backed it may take a bit of time to get him completely sorted. My former boss's gf was sent a 4 yr old to ride last year that had been backed before it was sent to her. It was completely bonkers - any request to do anything he didn't want to resulted in him rearing vertically until you took the pressure off. He did it under saddle, on the lunge and on the long lines. At the time I thought there was either something seriously physically wrong with him or that he had a screw loose, but it turned out that he had just been very, very badly broken in. Not that anyone was cruel to him, but that they just didn't know what they were doing and couldn't cope with a horse who was very highly strung. My boss took him right back to basics - they spent a very long time long reining round the farm and if the horse decided he didn't want to go my boss would simply wait him out. I don't think the horse had ever come across anyone willing to do this before - he was used to playing up and then not having to do anything else as people would just give up. It was surprising how quickly he improved and he honestly isn't even recognisable today as the same horse. He is now a very valuable horse indeed, competing and being placed at top shows for his age group. So there is hope, if you know what you're doing.
 
HashRouge said:
If he's 4 and has been badly backed it may take a bit of time to get him completely sorted. My former boss's gf was sent a 4 yr old to ride last year that had been backed before it was sent to her. It was completely bonkers - any request to do anything he didn't want to resulted in him rearing vertically until you took the pressure off. He did it under saddle, on the lunge and on the long lines. At the time I thought there was either something seriously physically wrong with him or that he had a screw loose, but it turned out that he had just been very, very badly broken in. Not that anyone was cruel to him, but that they just didn't know what they were doing and couldn't cope with a horse who was very highly strung. My boss took him right back to basics - they spent a very long time long reining round the farm and if the horse decided he didn't want to go my boss would simply wait him out. I don't think the horse had ever come across anyone willing to do this before - he was used to playing up and then not having to do anything else as people would just give up. It was surprising how quickly he improved and he honestly isn't even recognisable today as the same horse. He is now a very valuable horse indeed, competing and being placed at top shows for his age group. So there is hope, if you know what you're doing.
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Very good illustrative story - with particular emphasis on the last 6 words....
 
Cluelessblonde said:
Not yet
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Then I think it's time for some back x rays and a test with ulcer medication if the x rays are clear and a bute test it that fails. Our just go straight for a performance workup of the horse is insured.

I'm another who has owned a poppet of a horse with genetic kissing spines. I'd want pain ruled out before anyone else sits on this horse.

In another case I have a six year old who I pushed to trot when he did not want to at four and he spin bronked until I hit the floor. A couple of weeks later, having not pushed him again meanwhile, I realised that he has PSSM and treated it. He's never bronked again.
 
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I'd second doing a Bute trial as a quick/cheap way to see if he's in pain before assuming it is attitude (though ideally I'd recommend you get full vet check anyways).

My 9yr old WB went from being ok under saddle to violent rearing when we upped the schooling difficulty. He's always been sensitive and had a bit of an attitude so some people thought he was just trying it on. Stuck him on Bute for a few days and rearing stopped completely; stopped Bute and rearing returned. He ended up having full workup and a bone scan and was found to have a problem with his SI joint. Even quirky horse's behaviour can be pain related.
 
It does sound like bad breaking and/or physical issues.

I am sure he can be 'fixed' as such it will just take a long time. My horse argues with professional riders though too and listens better to normal riders so it's not just your horse there. He has his issues currently but we are seeing improvements with consistency. He does have moments still where he diverts back to flight mode but they are getting less frequent.

If it isn't pain then perhaps like someone else suggested go right back to basics and do long reining again. If he argues stand and wait and make him stand still too. He will eventually get bored and just continue on like nothing happened. Although if he is like my horse he may figure out what you are doing. Mine figured it out pretty quickly and that no longer works. What works now is never ever let him do a straight line if he is in a mood of 'no I won't listen no I won't go to the scary end of the arena and you can't make me'. I do continuous circles, bends, serpentine, loops, shoulder in, throw in transitions too etc as long as his head is not pointing forwards he doesn't argue. I eventually manage to get him to the bottom of the arena VERY gradually and he has no issue then. But it is patience and hoping to god he doesn't figure this out too which I think sadly he almost has. But it's still working so we are persisting.

Intelligent horses need to be kept thinking I am afraid and if you let them think for themselves they take a mile from you before you've noticed. They need to be listening to you all of the time not thinking 'how can I get out of this'.

Good luck with him. I hope you will succeed in the end once any potential physical issues are resolved. I am sure he can be a nice horse you have to show him you are a nice owner and want to work with him not against him. He probably doesn't believe that yet given his past.
 
dressage_diva said:
I'd second doing a Bute trial as a quick/cheap way to see if he's in pain before assuming it is attitude (though ideally I'd recommend you get full vet check anyways).

My 9yr old WB went from being ok under saddle to violent rearing when we upped the schooling difficulty. He's always been sensitive and had a bit of an attitude so some people thought he was just trying it on. Stuck him on Bute for a few days and rearing stopped completely; stopped Bute and rearing returned. He ended up having full workup and a bone scan and was found to have a problem with his SI joint. Even quirky horse's behaviour can be pain related.
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You should never use a bute trial to rule pain out only to prove the horse has pain .
Some types of are not senestive to bute .
 
Goldenstar said:
Your horse is either suffering from the effects of a very poorly done backing / starting or he's got a physical issue and this is the cause of the bad behaviour .
Lots of badly started young horses are very very challenging .
Before I put another professional at risk if he were mine I would go for a 'problems with performance ' type work up from a vet who specialises in this type of work .
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This, with bells ons :)
 
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