A how much - For Ali...

C

CastleMouse

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I'm seriously thinking about selling him at the moment... I'm just not a good enough rider for him TBH, and he could go quite far with the right rider
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I'll make my final decision after the Regionals in September
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So I'd like to know around how much you think he's worth? I know the market over here is different to the UK but I'd like to have a rough idea in my head. I'll ask my trainer what he thinks as well when I see him (which will probably be late August/early September).

So, a bit of info... He's a 16.1hh, grey Registered Danish Warmblood by Andiamo and he's out of Viva. Full breeding - http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/albani7 He's 11 years old (born the 24.05.1997), and was imported from Denmark in early 2005. With his previous owner he qualified for the AIRC Equipeople Dressage Championships in 2006, and also did well in the dressage at the AIRC Festival in 2006. She showjumped him at 1m unaffiliated level (she was more into dressage than jumping though) and he had some good results. She also did other RC stuff with him. Unfortunately I don't know much about what he did in Denmark...

I've hunter trialled at novice and open level with him (have gone clear at novice level with him, but some days he can be a complete and utter brat!), jumped courses at 1m10 height with no problems at a local venue where I rent out the indoor - I'm a bit of wimp but he would certainly jump bigger courses with no problems...

Dressagewise - Have won lots of rosettes and some prize money this year with him. But some days he'll be terrible in the first test and then we'll go on and do well in the second one...! I'm currently competing him at prelim and novice level but my trainer and I agreed (a few months ago I should add, before Ali became a brat on a regular basis) that he'd easily go up to medium level if we worked hard towards it!
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He's a very brave hunter, he had never hunted in his life before I bought him but he got the hang of things instantly - I'm sure that he had never jumped a barbed wire fence in his life before I hunted him!
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) He does have tantrums out on the hunting field though.

Brought him to two agri. shows last summer - I did the Ridden Hunter class at both shows (even though he's certainly not a hunter type!) and he behaved very well.

He's good to clip and shoe - can be a bit difficult to load but that's sorted when you use two lungelines behind his bum! On the road he's fine with cars and motorbikes, but isn't a fan of tractors or lorries... I've probably forgotten to add a couple of things in but I'd really appreciate if any of you could help
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I'm just not a good enough rider for him TBH, and he could go quite far with the right rider

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CM - I don't agree with this statement! You haven't had him very long and you have jumped from a little pony straight to a horse and as far as I can see, have done very well together. If you have bonded with him he may well take you far.

Are you really thinking of selling for the horse's sake or are you looking for something else?
 
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I've no idea CM. I hope you don't sell as you 2 look good together
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Thanks A - But far too many people seem to disagree
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I'm just not a good enough rider for him TBH, and he could go quite far with the right rider

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CM - I don't agree with this statement! You haven't had him very long and you have jumped from a little pony straight to a horse and as far as I can see, have done very well together. If you have bonded with him he may well take you far.

Are you really thinking of selling for the horse's sake or are you looking for something else?

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I love him, I really do, and it's a tough decision for me to make
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TBH when he started being a brat I just persevered with him, which paid off I suppose, but now my patience is wearing thin... I just don't think I have the heart to continue anymore
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I know that I'm basically giving up, but with a better rider I'm sure things will be different for him...
 
I don't know what the market is like in Ireland at the moment, but he sounds like a nice all rounder - so maybe 5K over here?

But, for what its worth, maybe you should think about really investing this summer into getting as many lessons as you can afford, really immersing yourself in riding him and learning, and if at the end of it you still think the same way then sell him. I think with some good training and consistent goals and advice you and he could be a super partnership.
 
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I'm just not a good enough rider for him TBH, and he could go quite far with the right rider

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CM - I don't agree with this statement! You haven't had him very long and you have jumped from a little pony straight to a horse and as far as I can see, have done very well together. If you have bonded with him he may well take you far.

Are you really thinking of selling for the horse's sake or are you looking for something else?

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I love him, I really do, and it's a tough decision for me to make
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TBH when he started being a brat I just persevered with him, which paid off I suppose, but now my patience is wearing thin... I just don't think I have the heart to continue anymore
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I know that I'm basically giving up, but with a better rider I'm sure things will be different for him...

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If it's becoming a personality thing then I can see your point BUT as someone else said, you came straight off Castle (who was an utter superstar) and who you adored, onto a vastly different animal. The only similarities are that they are geldings and they are grey. You have made huge strides on Ali.

I would advise that you sit down and make some lists. One of all the competitions you have done on Ali - with a note of the result. Another of all the "firsts" that you have done with him - taking him hunting etc. Another of his bad points and then one of his good points too.

Then consider what you would ideally like in your dream horse and look at where Ali differs from that. Then the crunch question; Are you going to find a horse that is more perfect for you than Ali is?


I think you have done amazingly well for someone having such a change of animal, who started off with a difficult time having two horses, which then got worse worrying about a good home for Castle.
 
I am sorry to hear you are considering selling him but I agree with what others have said.
I am very suprised to hear you say others do not think you suit Ali. Even if you don't look good together that doesn't matter, you ride him so well and love him dearly that is what matters.
What if you did sell him and bought another one and a year or so down the line you thought that could go further with someone ele....why not let Ali take YOU places?
 
I have to say I agree with Halfstepre more training for you both, the problems you have with him looking at your photographs are mostly due to your own position , a sensitive horse soon gets fed up with someone who can't sit in balance and give him clear signals.
I would worry about your trainer too, as they have failed to correct your position and allowed you to ride with jumping length stirrups in a dressage saddle.
Ali looks a really nice trainable horse, but instead of swapping horses I really think you would be better admitting you need to improve yourself to his level.
I doubt you will find a horse as cpable and willing as he is, but until you are adult enough to accept the fault is yours he has stared messing about you will have exactly the same problem with your next horse.
I am sure you are bristling with indignation about my comments, but sometimes you have to actually listen to what most people are trying to tell you.
Invest in some decent lunge lessons get a trainer who realises that until you can ride the horse without affecting it, you can't effect it!
At the moment your imbalance is annoying your horse from what I can see, and once you learn to ride him he will be a fantastic horse for you.
I would far rather be tough on you now and read a post in two year's time how you are doing affilliated dressage and winning in decent company than worry about your feelings now..
Will your parents pay for you to go for a week on an English dressage yard these holidays? A week at Talland and you would be a whole new rider I promise.
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I don't know what the market is like in Ireland at the moment, but he sounds like a nice all rounder - so maybe 5K over here?

But, for what its worth, maybe you should think about really investing this summer into getting as many lessons as you can afford, really immersing yourself in riding him and learning, and if at the end of it you still think the same way then sell him. I think with some good training and consistent goals and advice you and he could be a super partnership.

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Thanks Halfstep - I'm going to a well known dressage trainer for a couple of days in August. Hopefully that'll help, but if it doesn't I'm definitely going to make my final decision after the Regionals
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I'm just not a good enough rider for him TBH, and he could go quite far with the right rider

[/ QUOTE ]

CM - I don't agree with this statement! You haven't had him very long and you have jumped from a little pony straight to a horse and as far as I can see, have done very well together. If you have bonded with him he may well take you far.

Are you really thinking of selling for the horse's sake or are you looking for something else?

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I love him, I really do, and it's a tough decision for me to make
frown.gif
TBH when he started being a brat I just persevered with him, which paid off I suppose, but now my patience is wearing thin... I just don't think I have the heart to continue anymore
frown.gif
I know that I'm basically giving up, but with a better rider I'm sure things will be different for him...

[/ QUOTE ]

If it's becoming a personality thing then I can see your point BUT as someone else said, you came straight off Castle (who was an utter superstar) and who you adored, onto a vastly different animal. The only similarities are that they are geldings and they are grey. You have made huge strides on Ali.

I would advise that you sit down and make some lists. One of all the competitions you have done on Ali - with a note of the result. Another of all the "firsts" that you have done with him - taking him hunting etc. Another of his bad points and then one of his good points too.

Then consider what you would ideally like in your dream horse and look at where Ali differs from that. Then the crunch question; Are you going to find a horse that is more perfect for you than Ali is?


I think you have done amazingly well for someone having such a change of animal, who started off with a difficult time having two horses, which then got worse worrying about a good home for Castle.

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Thanks for the advice Jemima
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I am sorry to hear you are considering selling him but I agree with what others have said.
I am very suprised to hear you say others do not think you suit Ali. Even if you don't look good together that doesn't matter, you ride him so well and love him dearly that is what matters.
What if you did sell him and bought another one and a year or so down the line you thought that could go further with someone ele....why not let Ali take YOU places?

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I just don't think I'll have the heart to put up with him for another year if he continues this way. As I mentioned in my reply to Halfstep I'll be going to a dressage trainer for a couple of days and if she can't help me (I don't expect miracles in a few days obviously) then there isn't really much hope after that...
 
Thanks HH... As I mentioned in my reply to Halfstep, I WILL be going to a well known dressage trainer for a few days in August.
My current trainer (who I haven't had a lesson with for a couple of months now) was fantastic, but unfortunately he's away every weekend eventing, dressaging, or showjumping at this time of the year. The short stirrups are nothing to do with him at all - I just feel much more comfortable riding with short stirrups incase Ali bolts off or misbehaves.
I did state in my original post that I'm not a good enough rider for him, and I KNOW that I'm not a good rider.
Our "issues" have only started these past couple of months (his back, tack, teeth etc. are all fine BTW), and IMO my riding has improved a lot this past year.
 
CastleMouse, it is worth saying that while a few days worth of lessons will help, it takes months if not years of correct training to even begin to learn to ride with an independent seat and to consistently give effective aids. But as you say, you have come on a lot in the last year, so with regular (i.e. weekly) training you should get even further this one. It truly doesn't matter who your trainer if - a local person with a good eye and an ability to explain things well would be just as good (if not better) than a "big name".

Your "problems" do seem to be stemming from the fact that you are asking him to do things in a way that he doesn't quite understand. You have a lot of potential if you want to pursue it. Learning to ride Ali well would teach you a lot.
 
I personally think you just need time and some good lessons, you took a VERY big leap from 12hh castle to 16hh (I think!) Ali. That in itself was always going to make things take longer. I think you should keep him, I bet as soon as the hunting season starts again your mind will change, or if you do sell him you will regret it.
 
I think you are beginning to see what I'm getting at but it can't be fixed as half step or I suggested in just a few days.
I think in some ways you're trying to run before you can walk.
You suffer from a huge lack of confidence as every post is issued with a disclaimer of your Dad films badly or don't look at you.. You can ride well I'm sure or you wouldn't have managed to get as far as you have, and yes, I do think you have improved a lot.
What you need though is boring stuff. Being stuck on the lunge without stirrups and taught how to have an effective seat and a secure one so that when Ali messes about you don't feel unsafe.
Being able to stick on and hunt all day is totally different from riding a dressage test and the first thing that has to happen is you being secure and coping with the odd problem. It may mean not doing comps for months, until you feel absolutely confident of being able to ride him not just sit on him. There is a massive jump from sitting on to riding and it makes the difference between doing a good test and an ok one.
Find a local trainer or as HS says, someone who can correct your position and teach you the engine is in the back not the front.
The other thing I will say is you are very young and have all the time in the world to learn and improve, don't beat yourself up and expect such perfection!
Looking back at my own daughter although I was an instructor I took her to anyone I felt would help her, and in some cases when they reached their teaching limit we moved on. Just because someone is a big name doesn't mean they are what you need. You need an eye for problems and a way of putting the solution over easily. The dressage rider's yard she trained on hasn't a qualification to her name, but she is a damn good trainer never the less.
Somewhere along the line your trainer should have ensured you understood a deep seat comes from long stirrups not short ones, which is why I am a little wary of his expertise..
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Yes short stirrups can help in an ordinary saddle but never in a dressage one.
You are a good enough rider for Ali, and believe me, if you learn HOW to ride him you will have the most wonderful horse!
I hope you feel much more confident and secure after your trip to the dressage trainer in August, the issues I'm sure are a result of him getting muddled signals from you and if you can give him clear ones including how to behave, he will return to the horse you loved so much you bought him..
To really succeeed you need regular help though, even the top riders have someone helping them every day, where my daughter works there is a BE accredited trainer who helps everyone as they ride , and she trains an olympic team member exactly the same way. I gather you are attempting to ride Ali on your own with no help at the moment. No wonder you struggle sometimes.
Of course the ordinary rider can't have that level of help, but we can have weekly lessons, or get a friend to watch and advise from the ground.
One other question, is he just on grass or are you feeding him too?
Can you lunge him before riding him to take some of the energy out?
 
I quote from your siginature "Success is a journey, not a destination". It's sounds to me as if you're at a hurrdle and about to just give up? Come on, you've better then that. I think HH may be right, often the problem is the rider not the horse, yes you can sell him and buy another horse, but the problems won't go away.

If he was mine, I'd give him a break, just take a few steps back, and just enjoy each other! Hunting isn't long off and it seems thats something you both enjoy and do well at. (something which a new horse might not be so good at) I think with a good teacher you two could be the bomb!
 
hun, you know my feelings on this.
I dont think you should sell him - it is something you would regret.
Think HH has a very valid point about regular tuition, is looking for another instructor an option for you?
Out of interest - how is Ali on the ground? is it just at shows that he plays up?

xxxx
 
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I have no proper advice but I am sad to hear this
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I think many of us struggle with new horses at times so nobody can fault you for your feelings. I will agree with others that have said Castle was a superstar and Ali may be a whole new challenge. Sometimes though sweetie a "challenge" is what takes us to a whole new level in life. You will soon know what the right thing is to do. Just a bit more of a chance.



The bottom line however is that YOU are happy with your horse. Far wiser horse people than me on here have suggested that you are the probelm and that Ali is fine.

I will disagree in one respect. If your confidence is shattered on him you may regress imo. Maybe your transition from Castle should be a bit smoother and imo it may take you further, faster? Maybe right now you need something bigger than Castle but just as dependable to get you over the plateau of moving up. You can still learn balance and position on a good horse that may be a bit more quiet and patient than Ali sounds .

YOU decide honey and do it with heart and gut.


Best of luck
 
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