A little legal help!

[Jellybean123]

Hi all
I posted about a problem a while ago that is still ongoing but due to us being on lockdown I thought I’d try again with an update. So I rented a field without a contact, during our storms my horse got her foot caught in the fence (sheep wire fencing) and pulled 2 posts from the ground and unclipped the cattle wire.
I originally said to go through insurance as landlord was being very rude and awkward about it. Whilst going through insurance he refused to provide a quote saying it was just a cash in hand for 700£ to which I was horrified and got my own quote for a much more reasonable price. There’s loads of little details I could go into but my main question is what’s laws on repair. My understanding was always back to original condition not bettered. And that the landlord has to provide adequate fencing (that can withstand general wear and tear) which obviously sheep fence can’t.
I just need help as can’t get hold of any solicitors for advice and he’s told me he’s paid his new invoice (which he can’t send me as it’s apparently cash in hand from a friend). Just want to know my rights so I can write him a message back as he’s blatantly just trying to take some money off me.

 

[Jellybean123]

Hi all
I posted about a problem a while ago that is still ongoing but due to us being on lockdown I thought I’d try again with an update. So I rented a field without a contact, during our storms my horse got her foot caught in the fence (sheep wire fencing) and pulled 2 posts from the ground and unclipped the cattle wire.
I originally said to go through insurance as landlord was being very rude and awkward about it. Whilst going through insurance he refused to provide a quote saying it was just a cash in hand for 700£ to which I was horrified and got my own quote for a much more reasonable price. There’s loads of little details I could go into but my main question is what’s laws on repair. My understanding was always back to original condition not bettered. And that the landlord has to provide adequate fencing (that can withstand general wear and tear) which obviously sheep fence can’t.
I just need help as can’t get hold of any solicitors for advice and he’s told me he’s paid his new invoice (which he can’t send me as it’s apparently cash in hand from a friend). Just want to know my rights so I can write him a message back as he’s blatantly just trying to take some money off me.

Sorry just to add insurance refused to pay out due to it being a landlord tenant thing

 

[ycbm]

Insurance refused to pay out because there is no liability, more like. I would ignore him. He can't even provide a receipt for the work. He's pulling a fast one.

On your previous post about this the posts were too thin for livestock fencing and it was not your horse's fault they broke. The repair needed to restore it to where it had been was to bang in a couple of new posts, not a £700 rebuild. He is trying to extort money out of you that he hasn't spent, and that you don't owe him even if he had.

Don't write anything. Dont engage, ignore him.

.

 

[be positive]

Not legal advice but my answer would be no invoice no payment,
£700 sounds totally ridiculous for a couple of posts and fixing the fence back where it was, an hour of someones time should have been more than enough to do the job, as for providing adequate fencing in the first place that is a different matter as you had seen and presumably accepted it as it was so it was not 'obviously inadequate' at that time so I would be cautious about following that path to get out of paying..

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

You put your horses in the field knowing what the fence was like, so you accepted that it was adequate to contain your livestock - you have no comeback there. If my horse was to break something then I would always take it upon myself to fix it, and in being difficult and not just getting it done, you have backed yourself into a corner; as he had to take it upon himself to do it and has paid an extortionate price for it (or he may have paid less, unfortunately you have no way of knowing).

If I were in your situation then I would offer, in the absence of any proof of the price he paid, to pay the full amount of my quote and not a penny more. In future I would take responsibility for the damage your horses cause and sort it yourself before this situation has the opportunity to arise.

 

[Jellybean123]

You put your horses in the field knowing what the fence was like, so you accepted that it was adequate to contain your livestock - you have no comeback there. If my horse was to break something then I would always take it upon myself to fix it, and in being difficult and not just getting it done, you have backed yourself into a corner; as he had to take it upon himself to do it and has paid an extortionate price for it (or he may have paid less, unfortunately you have no way of knowing).

If I were in your situation then I would offer, in the absence of any proof of the price he paid, to pay the full amount of my quote and not a penny more. In future I would take responsibility for the damage your horses cause and sort it yourself before this situation has the opportunity to arise.

Hi thanks.
I did offer to fix it. Hence the insurance quote and I got 2 of my own quotes as he refused to send one into the insurance company. Then once they’ve refused he’s come back with different quotes and said over text “I will only have my guy do it cash in hand and if you get a cheaper quote then I will pay difference” but now he’s changed his mind and suddenly got a new quote which he’s apparently paid but refuses to provide. I offered to put the posts back in myself but again he refused.

 

[Jellybean123]

Not legal advice but my answer would be no invoice no payment,
£700 sounds totally ridiculous for a couple of posts and fixing the fence back where it was, an hour of someones time should have been more than enough to do the job, as for providing adequate fencing in the first place that is a different matter as you had seen and presumably accepted it as it was so it was not 'obviously inadequate' at that time so I would be cautious about following that path to get out of paying..

Thank you! Luckily I have pictures of everything before and after so hopefully he will just accept that I will pay for the posts back in but not a brand new fence!

 

[Pinkvboots]

Thing is you don't generally get a bill or invoice for cash in hand work! I would tell him to jog on does he really expect you to pay £700 for a few fixed fence posts.

 

[conniegirl]

Move your horses then tell him to jog on. If he wants the money then he can take you to court for it, which he can't do as he doesnt have a quote, the job was cash in hand (illegal), he has no invoice for, you have texts saying he would pay the difference between your quotes and his cost etc.
Worst that will hapopen for you is that you are asked to pay the cost of the higher of your quotes but it is highly unlikely it will ever get to that point.

 

[ycbm]

Cash in hand isn't illegal for the self employed, just frowned on by the taxman because of the ease of tax avoidance.

.

 

[lamlyn2012]

Nothing to add regarding payment but please would you be able to put some electric fencing a metre in from the sheep wire. I presume your horse got away without injury this time but you are very lucky if that is the case and you may not be so lucky in future.

 

[Jellybean123]

Nothing to add regarding payment but please would you be able to put some electric fencing a metre in from the sheep wire. I presume your horse got away without injury this time but you are very lucky if that is the case and you may not be so lucky in future.

thank you! I know it’s awful stuff. We had electric but the storms with their 70mph kept blowing it away hence why we ended up with the foot caught! She’s all moved now thankfully x

 

[Pinkvboots]

Sheep wire is crap for horses even barefoot ones

 

[Shay]

Tell him to put the matter before the small claims court. Before he does so he has to send you a detailed letter before action which must include things like the agreement to pay and the invoice. Its a cost free regime so the worst that could happen is that you would have to pay is a judge holds that you are liable. You have nothing to loose - and indeed everythin to gain. My bet would be he won't go that far but if he does small claims is free to represent yourself. Simply go and explain your case to a judge. With all courts being closed now the case should reach a judge sometime in mid 2021!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

Hi thanks.
I did offer to fix it. Hence the insurance quote and I got 2 of my own quotes as he refused to send one into the insurance company. Then once they’ve refused he’s come back with different quotes and said over text “I will only have my guy do it cash in hand and if you get a cheaper quote then I will pay difference” but now he’s changed his mind and suddenly got a new quote which he’s apparently paid but refuses to provide. I offered to put the posts back in myself but again he refused.

Right okay, apologies then - I mis-interpreted your post. I'd tell him to naff of then to be quite honest and just offer to pay the amount of whatever quote it was that you got.

 

[SusieT]

If you'd moved I would just reply saying you tried to get the repair done but he could not facilitate it so unfortunately as there is no receipt you will be unable to pay and will not be taking further contact. I would then block his number.

 

[PurBee]

thank you! I know it’s awful stuff. We had electric but the storms with their 70mph kept blowing it away hence why we ended up with the foot caught! She’s all moved now thankfully x

for future reference...the rope electric fencing is much better in wind than the tape. Tape billows everywhere and is more a danger than a help, i had to change to rope fencing on a windy paddock.

No farmer would pay 700 for a couple of posts and wire repair...he’s thinking you’re green and stupid! He’d have paid 70 quid max for such a quick easy repair, and thats if ’his guy’ took 5 hours to do the job!

I had a guy brake his car suddenly infront of me on purpose to try to get 100 quid cash for a replacement tow bar my bumper bumped into. I asked for receipt and said ill happily pay, and didnt hear from him again.

 

[w1bbler]

I've just had one side (short side) of my 5 acre field fenced with post & rail (only 2 rails as there is a stone wall other side of it) for £350, this guy is taking the p** out of you big time trying for £700 to replace already rotten fencing