A low cal, high energy feed?

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Do they exist? If so can anyone recommend one?

 

[Miss L Toe]

Calories = energy, but I think I know what you mean... oats

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Well he's ridden 6 x a week and is just lacking energy. He's a very good doer though so have to be careful!

 

[Hutchlou]

What are you feeding him at the moment?

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Well I've only had him 5 weeks and he came with a bag of feed, just emptied it into feedbin & didn't really take much notice, didn't chuck the bag out though. Last night I thought I'd look and see what it was and he's on 'mollichop calmer, for fizzy TBs' etc. Well he's not a TB and he's certainly NOT fizzy!! So hebeen having a scoop of that and garlic once a day!

 

[Miss L Toe]

You need to look at total feed and work regime not just the hard feed.
As he gets more regular work including slow roadwork he will lose fat and build muscles, ie a fittening program over three months may be required.
I feed a high fibre low sugar diet,
Fast Fibre [plus Non molassed sugar beet in winter]..if a good doer or Calm and Condition if needing condition.
Minerals and vitamins . Equimins or Feedmark.
Grass/hay/haylage........
Micronised linseed meal.
To start off an unknown horse, I would avoid any concentrated feed over 12 megajoules per kilogram energy, it is better to have a quiet horse than a nutter!
Your current diet is lacking in essential minerals and vitamins, chaff is chopped hay or straw lacks nutrients.
If you are not sure what to feed, buy a bag of Spillersw High fibre nuts or similar, and keep him working, most apparent sluggishness / lack of energy is down to schooling and fitness, so book some lessons and see how he comes on.



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[Gilbey]

I had that same problem with my Welsh D. He had laminitis badly and has now lost tons of weight accordingly. Trouble was that he had no vava voom!! I asked my vet to check him over and he said now you need to put some petrol in the tank but watch his weight. So he is now on crushed oats, in quite a large quantity (three big dippers a day spread over 3 feeds), and his voom is back but he isn't silly on it! I have aslo tried the Spillers Response Instant Energy for him when I have been doing a bit more, that works too!! Hope this helps, I get the cheapest crushed oats with no brand name too.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Thanks for the replies.

Well it's kind of a catch 22 situation with him really as he IS unfit and carrying extra pounds. When I first got him I thought once he fittens up/loses the weight he will become more forward in the school.

However have had him for 5 weeks, been working him 6 x a week and he's been on a diet (well, not getting loads anyway) but there's no improvement in his energy levels.

He IS more forward out hacking but I think that's a combination of adrenalin and going in straight lines/me not really asking anything of him.

It's very hard to school a horse that isn't going forwards at all, I have been trying to do lateral work, spiralling on circles etc to work on his suppleness but it's impossible as getting him round a 20 metre circle is hard enough when he's having a lazy day, there's just no impulsion. He IS a spooky horse so perhaps that's the reason for the calmer but I would rather take him off it and have him more forward and channel the energy where I want/need it to be.

He's ridden 6 x a week and always sweats/blows etc so I'm not *too* worried about him piling on the pounds if I change his feed.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

If he is overweight, he will be lacking in energy.
I would stop giving him any 'hard feed' just give him hay/grass and concentrate on fittening work. Hacking is the best way to fitten an unfit horse, schooling will need to wait until he has more muscle & energy. You could start simple schooling on your hacks, when he is thinking forwards.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

I have upped the amount of hacking he does in order to try and get him fitter quicker, however hacking where I am isn't great as although very rural, there's a lot of roadwork due to lack of bridleways and not allowed to ride on the fields. Have to admit, although I don't mind it, hacking isn't my favourite thing, I like dressage and schooling.

He has always been lazy in the school as owner said she always rode him in spurs to school. I think it is more of a training issue more than anything else TBH as he IS just a lazy, backward thinking horse and at 12 has obviously been like that for a long time. I think it's breaking that mental cycle and getting him thinking more forwards too.

But having him on a calmer certainly isn't helping I'm sure of that.

 

[zaminda]

I used to feed my pony racehorse mix, which gave him more bang for his buck, plus he needs to be super fit, or he turns into a slob. I'm not a fan of straight oats, as they aren't balanced, but added them to the racehorse mix, for more go faster stripes. Fitness may prove to be the key, ponio had to be really quite slim to be fast once he got over the original flat out everywhere stage.

 

[maisie06]

One problem I find with fatties is because they are on a restricted diet they tend to lack in vits and mins. I would start by giving a balancer or a vitamin and mineral supplement and a teaspoon of salt, then keep up the work programme, as the fat comes off and he tones up he should become more active as a result.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

One problem I find with fatties is because they are on a restricted diet they tend to lack in vits and mins. I would start by giving a balancer or a vitamin and mineral supplement and a teaspoon of salt, then keep up the work programme, as the fat comes off and he tones up he should become more active as a result.

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking.

I don't really want to bang him full of oats or sugar as want something that will give him nutrients and minerals and release energy slowly and consistently rather than just giving him a massive hit of sugar all in one go.

Yesterday I bought some Honeychop and Dodsen and Horrell Pasture mix http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/our-feeds/active-work/pony-clubriding-club/pasture-mix.html

I am going to introduce these to him slowly over next few days and then give him a few weeks on these and see if they make any difference to his energy levels. It could be that he is also lacking in vitmins and minerals, so hopefully the pasture mix should provide some of thorse. OR it may be if there isn't much improvement in the next couple of months that he is like my old cob who NEEDED some oats etc all year round for his energy levels. Time and work will tell I guess

 

[gill84]

I used to feed my ID mare d & h energy concentrate. It's designed for good doers need slow release energy but not a lot of feed. Worked really well with her coz she needed oomph but not masses of calories

 

[gill84]

Sorry just double checked the name, competition concentrate its called

 

[rhino]

It could be that he is also lacking in vitmins and minerals, so hopefully the pasture mix should provide some of those.

Pasture mix will provide the vitamins and minerals if fed at the recommended rate, which as your horse is overweight you won't be doing. If you are feeding below recommended amounts you won't be supplying enough vits/mins, so it is a bit catch 22.

You could use a concentrated vit/min supplement or balancer as then you won't be adding calories the horse really doesn't need.

 

[monkeybum13]

Definitely up the hacking, if you find it boring practice your bending, leg yields, shoulder in etc

Pasture mix will provide the vitamins and minerals if fed at the recommended rate, which as your horse is overweight you won't be doing. If you are feeding below recommended amounts you won't be supplying enough vits/mins, so it is a bit catch 22.

You could use a concentrated vit/min supplement or balancer as then you won't be adding calories the horse really doesn't need.

This. Feeding below the amount will not provide the vitamins/minerals.

Once your horse isn't overweight if you do genuinely need extra energy I wouldn't dismiss oats. Oats have the lowest energy and highest fibre content of grains and I prefer to keep things simple rather than feeding compound mixes which are full of rubbish!

 

[Firewell]

I'd probably add a powder vits and mins or a mugful of balancer just in case as you probably won't be feeding the recommended amount of mix. Pasture mix used to give my late mare plenty of energy so could be worth a try.
I think it sometimes takes some playing around to get feed right for a horse .

 

[Miss L Toe]

Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking.

I don't really want to bang him full of oats or sugar as want something that will give him nutrients and minerals and release energy slowly and consistently rather than just giving him a massive hit of sugar all in one go.

Yesterday I bought some Honeychop and Dodsen and Horrell Pasture mix http://www.dodsonandhorrell.com/our-feeds/active-work/pony-clubriding-club/pasture-mix.html
I am going to introduce these to him slowly over next few days and then give him a few weeks on these and see if they make any difference to his energy levels. It could be that he is also lacking in vitmins and minerals, so hopefully the pasture mix should provide some of thorse. OR it may be if there isn't much improvement in the next couple of months that he is like my old cob who NEEDED some oats etc all year round for his energy levels. Time and work will tell I guess

Oh dear, did you see check just how much Pasture Mix they recommend, don't think it will do what you want, remember when they recommend 4kgs per day, they have adjusted the intake of minerals an vitamins to daily requirements, I feed D&H Mare and Youngstock for va va voom [spooky boy so don't wan tto give him much] it is full of mins and vits and had oats peas and stuff like that
Your Mollichaff Calmer is really a bulking up feed to be added to the main hard feed, it contains magnesium, which may be why they call it "calmer", but all horses need magnesium, a mineral which is usually in short supply in the UK.
To me the Pasture Mix is a marketing gimmick, neither a balancer for horses out at grass, or a feed which replicates what horses get when they pick and mix at their pasture.

 

[Miss L Toe]

Pasture mix will provide the vitamins and minerals if fed at the recommended rate, which as your horse is overweight you won't be doing. If you are feeding below recommended amounts you won't be supplying enough vits/mins, so it is a bit catch 22.

You could use a concentrated vit/min supplement or balancer as then you won't be adding calories the horse really doesn't need.

You beat me to it Rhino!

 

[Miss L Toe]

Pasture Mix [D&H]has a Digestible Energy of only 10 mega joules per kilogram, which is low, you need 11.5 to 12.5 to hype him up and still do light to medium work.
Don't believe all the marketing blurb they put out on this one., it is a safe mix for them to recommend to the average horse and pony owner.

 

[Zargon_91]

I do nutrition at uni with one of the UKs leading experts- the most recent trend in feeding is for high forage, low cereal and sugar feeds because a horses' digestive system physically can't cope with grains in larger quantities. You're feed should be based on sugar beet and alfalfa ideally- you might find that alone gives you're horse enough energy. Per kilo, alfalfa has more energy than oats with none of the side effects. If you need a little more energy in the diet add some oil. Most alfalfas are fortified so you shouldn't have to add minerals, but electrolytes are always a good idea. NAF is a good brand but it's easier to make you're own- 2 parts normal table salt to 1 part LoSalt. It's more cost effective and isn't sugar-based

 

[Miss L Toe]

I do nutrition at uni with one of the UKs leading experts- the most recent trend in feeding is for high forage, low cereal and sugar feeds because a horses' digestive system physically can't cope with grains in larger quantities. You're feed should be based on sugar beet and alfalfa ideally- you might find that alone gives you're horse enough energy. Per kilo, alfalfa has more energy than oats with none of the side effects. If you need a little more energy in the diet add some oil. Most alfalfas are fortified so you shouldn't have to add minerals, but electrolytes are always a good idea. NAF is a good brand but it's easier to make you're own- 2 parts normal table salt to 1 part LoSalt. It's more cost effective and isn't sugar-based

Most alfalfas are fortified? Not sure that is correct.
I would be very careful about feeding a horse which is a unknown quantity, has been on a low nutrient ration, needs slimming down and is lacking in energy, it is imperative that it gets its full ration of vitamins and minerals, so if one goes down the simplistic feed route, one has to have a bit of understanding of nutrition.
Most people are moving towards micronised linseed meal rather than cooking oil from Tesco, it has less processing, is cheaper and contains fibre, linseed is a traditional feed and is very digestible.
I assume your Uni nutritionist does not have barefoot horses, why not ask him the effect of nutrition on the hoof lamellae, sole concavity and hoof capsule definition..... should fill a few minutes on a Friday afternoon!
PS some horse do not do well on alfalfa, again, we know this because it can give symptoms of footiness in barefoot horses.

 

[Shysmum]

I would go for just a good quality low calorie balancer. I use Baileys 14, on it's own, and he loves it. Plus hay and a grazing muzzle when out.

I have now got a cob that looks fantastic, is barefoot, and is happy to work every day if I ask him to. He was very sluggish, but this regime has given him a whole new meaning to life

 

[abitodd]

I would recommend The Pure Feed Company to help with your horse's diet.
They do a free diet plan and their feeds are high fibre/low sugar and (according to my horses)utterly delicious. http://www.thepurefeedcompany.com/diet-plan

One thing I have found over the years of keeping horses is that if you feed for more energy i.e a food that is considered heating,you are likey to get more of the horse you had before. So a fizzy horse becomes more fizzy and a lazy horse has more energy to use against you and therefore can appear more lazy!

 

[Miss L Toe]

One thing I have found over the years of keeping horses is that if you feed for more energy i.e a food that is considered heating,you are likey to get more of the horse you had before. So a fizzy horse becomes more fizzy and a lazy horse has more energy to use against you and therefore can appear more lazy!

Interesting.

 

[Laafet]

Not read all the replies but can highly recommend feeding a balancer like Spillers lite or Bailey's Lo Cal and add to that upto four mugs of Saracen Equijewel. Worked for me with spastic Welsh x TB.

 

[Laafet]

Oh and I wouldn't use Pasture Mix for the average horse -we used to feed that to the Racehorses that were running at the place where I used to work. It can be like rocket fuel if they are sensitive to that. But then that is when it is fed at the recommended rate and if you are not doing that then you are not getting the right amount of nutrients. Hence why I use just balancers now.