a plee for help and advice - Getting very disheartened...

[BorgRae]

Please offer me some advice…

I seem to be getting absolutely no where with my lad. He’s so inconsistent and resistant, I’m becoming very disheartened.

I’ve had him 5 years (since he was 3), he’s a stubborn sod, and if he doesn’t wasn’t to do something, he’ll fight me every inch of the way. But I just can’t help but love him (although it’s beginning to wear thin!! Lol!).

He gets tense in his neck when he fights, then gives up, takes a contact for about 2 mins, then fights again, leaning on my hands, grabbing the bit in his jaw and pushes through his shoulder.

He regularly get physio checks, last one was in January (all fine), saddle re flocked and re fitted in February, teeth in February. Gets his shoes done every 5 weeks, I have lessons once a week with the best instructor I’ve had so far…

Two weeks ago, during a lesson, he was my dream horse, so light in my hands, really forward and working through. The next day we had a dressage comp, I was actually quite excited as I though we might just do ok!! (dressage has been ridiculously inconsistent!!) Well,  no such luck!!! He just pulled and grabbed and pushed through his shoulder, needless to say the test felt horrific!!

What can I do? I’m getting really quite deflated by the whole thing.

Do I:
A) turn him away for a month or so for him to get his head into gear
B) just keep going, hoping eventually it’ll click and he’ll start to go well
C) try something different with him, some new tactics
D) …suggestions welcome

I guess my question is, have you had a horse that just refuses to learn, and is constantly inconsistent? If so was this purely behavioural because they were a sod, or was there a deep down underlying condition?

…P.S. He’s been like this since he was broken

 

[AmyMay]

What else do you do with him?

And how does he go for your instructor?

 

[0310Star]

Do you just do schooling with him or does he have quite a varied work schedule with hacking, jumping etc included?
My mare gets very bored if she doesn't have a lot of different things going on. If I was to school everytime I rode, give it a week and she would start rebelling!! Being lazy, not listening... The usual stuff!
So maybe try varying his work a little more so he has more to put his mind to without getting bored

 

[BorgRae]

We hack out once or twice a week, and he gets schooled between 2 and 3 times a week. I lunge every few weeks. He's out 24/7.

He loves to jump, but unfortunately, I had a really bad accident jumping (not him) and really don't like to jump!! But I jump him once a month or so, and friends jump him occasionaly.

When my instructor is there, he's still an arse mostly, but we do get there in the end most times. SOmetimes he's a dream, sometimes a nightmare! Last weeks lesson, he was was heavy on my hands and leaning/pushing through his shoulders pretty much all the way through our lesson. I'd ridden a couple of days earlier and he went lovely! My instructor is really good and we have come a long way, but I now just don't feel we're getting anywhere. Just when I think I've craked it with him, he throws a different evasion at me!

 

[FairyLights]

I'd turn him out for 4 to 6 weeks shoes off. Horses generally benefit from a "holiday". He might have some mild pain maybe muscular somewhere which might account for his being great at times and awful at others. I think a holiday would do him good. Then bring him slowly, slowly back into work and see how he goes.I'd aso hack 3 to 4 times a week and school no more than twice a week for the time being.

 

[0310Star]

^^^^Agree, holiday would probably be a good start!

 

[ghostie]

have you talked to your instructor about changing his bit? When my boy was getting very heavy and leaning a lot we changed him to an NS verbindend and it made a huge difference to him and really lightened him up. It's not going to fix things overnight, but might be worth considering a change of bit in tandem with other tactics?

I think if it were me (and finances permitted) I'd give him a week off to chill out and then ship him off to be professionally schooled for a month or two. I'd enjoy the break from responsibility and let myself relax about the whole thing. Once he was going nicely I'd go and have some lessons there before bringing him home to continue the hard work. I think sometimes a change of rider and routine can be a great way of getting horses to progress - not that you're not competent and capable of doing it yourself, but sometimes a fresh approach to a horse from someone that has no prejudgements on it can be a really useful insight.

 

[AmyMay]

Does your instructor ride him?

He sounds stale to me, and I would do a lot more hacking with him. Remember, you can do a lot of schooling out hacking - and it really helps to vary the work.

At 5 I wouldn't be giving him a holiday - just something more interesting to do than battling in the school.

So, more hacking - less schooling. And try and find the opportunity of riding different horses yourself.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Does he fight with you when you hack or jump?

Maybe schooling/dressage just isn't his idea of fun?

 

[ameeyal]

Amymay the horse is 8 years old she has had him for 5 years,

 

[AmyMay]

Amymay the horse is 8 years old she has had him for 5 years,

Doh

Thanks ameeyal

 

[Littlelegs]

Agree with amymay, more hacking. No holiday, but first few weeks with no attempt to work him. Then start schooling out hacking.
And agree re you riding other horses too for lessons. And what's he like for another rider?

 

[HazyXmas]

I also think that he sounds bored.

Maybe give him a week off & then lots of hacking. Could you box up & go somewhere new with some friends or maybe do a sponsored ride?

It's not quite time yet, but could you or a friend perhaps get him out cubbing? Perhaps a few exciting days hunting would really cheer him up

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Maybe schooling/dressage just isn't his idea of fun?

I don't get this though. It might not be their idea of fun but all dressage/schooling is getting/training a horse to carry itself correctly, use itself etc which they will actually benefit from and find more comfortable than gonig a long with their head up in the air, hollowing like a giraffe.

A horse can only do what it's conformation will allow it to (though you can obviously extend on that to a certain extent) therefore you're only refining what the horse is naturally capable of anyway.

I remember a girl saying to me a few years ago 'oh, he (her horse) doesn't school, hates it and so do I so we just hack and jump'

It really irked me as I thought if it were mine, if I wanted to take it in the bloody school and get it listening to me, working correctly etc then I will. I don't care if 'they don't like it' I don't really like running, but I do it because it keeps me fit.

What about top dressage horses that are schooled everyday? Do they get stale?

I don't agree with endless schooling and no variety and this comment isn't aimed at you Faracat btw, just think that just because schooling isn't a horses idea of fun doesn't mean you should just throw the towel in and accept their evasions.

 

[be positive]

have you talked to your instructor about changing his bit? When my boy was getting very heavy and leaning a lot we changed him to an NS verbindend and it made a huge difference to him and really lightened him up. It's not going to fix things overnight, but might be worth considering a change of bit in tandem with other tactics?

I think if it were me (and finances permitted) I'd give him a week off to chill out and then ship him off to be professionally schooled for a month or two. I'd enjoy the break from responsibility and let myself relax about the whole thing. Once he was going nicely I'd go and have some lessons there before bringing him home to continue the hard work. I think sometimes a change of rider and routine can be a great way of getting horses to progress - not that you're not competent and capable of doing it yourself, but sometimes a fresh approach to a horse from someone that has no prejudgements on it can be a really useful insight.

This is sensible advice, step out of the equation, if finances do not allow this try getting your instructor to ride him instead of a lesson, then part of each lesson, having a different person on top can make a big difference.

The other point I feel is that he is a horse they do not plan to be difficult or stiff and tense, they are reacting to something, it may be he does not like pressure but more likely there is some underlying discomfort.
Turning him away may allow him to come back with a different attitude if he is stiff or sore but he will not be thinking about work while he is in the field so it will not really make much difference to him.

 

[HazyXmas]

SS in reply to your question:' What about top dressage horses that are schooled everyday? Do they get stale?'

The answer is yes, a lot of them do get very stale & some throw all their toys out of the pram & refuse to do it any more.

I feel that the secret to a happy, enthusiastic horse that wants to please you & try hard, is to keep his work varied & interesting.

I have first hand knowledge of an expensive dressage pony that was due to be PTS as it had become dangerous to ride. The poor thing hadn't been out of a school in almost two years, no wonder it wanted to kill someone! It now hacks out & is enjoying learning to jump. Has been ridden by several different people including my daughter.

Get out hacking more

 

[be positive]

I don't get this though. It might not be their idea of fun but all dressage/schooling is getting/training a horse to carry itself correctly, use itself etc which they will actually benefit from and find more comfortable than gonig a long with their head up in the air, hollowing like a giraffe.

A horse can only do what it's conformation will allow it to (though you can obviously extend on that to a certain extent) therefore you're only refining what the horse is naturally capable of anyway.

I remember a girl saying to me a few years ago 'oh, he (her horse) doesn't school, hates it and so do I so we just hack and jump'

It really irked me as I thought if it were mine, if I wanted to take it in the bloody school and get it listening to me, working correctly etc then I will. I don't care if 'they don't like it' I don't really like running, but I do it because it keeps me fit.

What about top dressage horses that are schooled everyday? Do they get stale?

I don't agree with endless schooling and no variety and this comment isn't aimed at you Faracat btw, just think that just because schooling isn't a horses idea of fun doesn't mean you should just throw the towel in and accept their evasions.

I agree, if working hard and being challenged mentally there is no reason a horse should not be able to enjoy work in a school, if there are physical issues that is different but if only expected to concentrate for up to 1 hour out of 24 should be possible for any horse.
The ones that are bored are usually doing endless trips round the edge or 20 metre circles with no stimulation at all, rider boring = horse bored.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

I agree, if working hard and being challenged mentally there is no reason a horse should not be able to enjoy work in a school, if there are physical issues that is different but if only expected to concentrate for up to 1 hour out of 24 should be possible for any horse.
The ones that are bored are usually doing endless trips round the edge or 20 metre circles with no stimulation at all, rider boring = horse bored.

Exactly. If there are physical issues then that's a whole different story.

However if not, the way I see it, they do nothing for 23 hours a day, I ask them to work ONE hour a day, if I want that to be in the school, hell, even 2 days a row in the school (Mine's ridden 6 x a week, normally schooled twice, hacked, schooled twice, hacked) the so be it. It CAN be interesting/challenging/enjoyable for them. You have to ensure you make it.

OP, I would send him to your instructor for a couple of weeks if you can afford it and see if she/he can crack it.

 

[AmyMay]

What about top dressage horses that are schooled everyday? Do they get stale?

I think there's a huge difference between someone's top dressage horse and the standard of riding they can expect to receive and someone's essential 'hobby' horse. But of course, as we all know, these top horses do get bored.

I don't agree with endless schooling and no variety and this comment isn't aimed at you Faracat btw, just think that just because schooling isn't a horses idea of fun doesn't mean you should just throw the towel in and accept their evasions.

No one has suggested throwing the towel in, merely suggested options.

Also there is absolutely no point in banging on and on in the school if you don't have the skills to rectify the problems (no offense intended toward the OP, I would include myself in this). And there's absolutely no harm in looking at alternatives to solve the problem, or improve it at the very least.

We all need help sometimes.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

I think there's a huge difference between someone's top dressage horse and the standard of riding they can expect to receive and someone's essential 'hobby' horse. But of course, as we all know, these top horses do get bored.



No one has suggested throwing the towel in, merely suggested options.

Also there is absolutely no point in banging on and on in the school if you don't have the skills to rectify the problems (no offense intended toward the OP, I would include myself in this). And there's absolutely no harm in looking at alternatives to solve the problem, or improve it at the very least.

We all need help sometimes.

Yes, obviously there is a difference between the top riders and horses and us ameatures/hobby riders. However, these horses DO get schooled every day, that is their job. They don't know they're bred for it, they may get stale granted (why I think it's good people like Carl Hester ensure there horses are hacked) but people don't say 'oh, well he's bored/it's not fun enough for him.' Tough. I know it's different for the amature but tbh, even competing BD is getting blummin expensive so if I had paid out for the membership, I would persevere.

And no, I agree, if you're just going round in circles (metaphorically)and not getting anywhere then something needs to change. That IMO is not a holiday though, it's perhaps an extra days hacking thrown into his work routine and a professional on board for a few weeks to try and rectify things. OR a different instructor if you don't feel like things are improving and haven't been sometime with current one. Sometimes a fresh approach can make all the difference.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I've known horses that definately prefer one activity over another. I'm not saying 'don't ever school again, your poor neddy obviously hates it' but it is something to consider whan tackling the OP's problem. As I don't know her or her horse, I was just throwing ideas out there for consideration. The OP is quite welcome to dismiss anything that isn't pertinent for their horse.

 

[Starbucks]

I feel sorry for horses that have to school all the time! Maybe he doesn't want to be a dressage pony..

 

[AmyMay]

Yes, obviously there is a difference between the top riders and horses and us ameatures/hobby riders. However, these horses DO get schooled every day, that is their job. They don't know they're bred for it, they may get stale granted (why I think it's good people like Carl Hester ensure there horses are hacked) but people don't say 'oh, well he's bored/it's not fun enough for him.' Tough. I know it's different for the amature but tbh, even competing BD is getting blummin expensive so if I had paid out for the membership, I would persevere.

Sorry, I'm not 100% sure what point you're trying to make here. And a lot of top riders now do much more with their horses than school them, as they understand how much fresher and interested. A lot of very good horses will go by the wayside unfortunately because they just chuck it in.

But I suppose the point I'm trying to make is ultimately there is no comparison to be made between top riders and their horses, and us hobby riders.

 

[Perfect_Pirouette]

Lol, think I've probably got a bit lost and off on a tangent.

I suppose the one and only point I'm trying to make, my inital one is that I see nothing wrong with schooling a horse, in an arena a few times a week and it if is being evasive in said arena because it is 'bored' or doesn't find schooling 'fun' then I wouldn't be giving it a holiday or hacking it anymore. If, like be positive said the horse is physically fit and healthy and the schooling sessions aren't too long and are kept interesting than I don't think there's any excuse for a horse to continually misbehave and evade simply because it 'doesnt enjoy the school'

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I've dealt with this before and here's my advice. If you don't already, use a loose ring snaffle, or if you use a pelham get one with sliding cheeks. This gives more movement in the mouth and makes them slightly less inclined to take a hold. Warm up thoroughly, on a long rein, not asking for an outline. The horse already sounds fit for the work you do, so keep that up. The idea is not to give the horse any excuses eg too tired or stiff so he says no thanks.

Next the contact/outline. Keep it consistent. Don't ride one style on hacks and another for schooling. Basically, the horse is complaining because you're asking too much, some horses are just not that enthusiastic, its their personality.

After warm up, pick him up a little, paying close attention to your aids and position, a bad riding posture makes his life harder so don't give him any excuses for not bothering. Pick him up gradually, don't shorten your reins by a foot all at once. Initially just shorten your reins a few inches, get him light in your hand, then reward vocally and let the reins out again. Repeat again and again and again. This is the only way to show him what is right. So many people get the reaction they want then try to keep it, the reward is supposed to be the lighter contact. For some horses its not enough of a reward, if they're the type who is happy to lean on the bit anyway.

For a horse to carry itself nicely on the bit, or even just not leaning on your hands, takes effort from the horse and makes him use muscles he currently doesn't have. Even if you can persuade him to do this consistently for a whole session, its going to make him ache like crazy, hence why he told you to get lost on the day of your dressage test. Think the first time you go to the gym and how much you ache the next day. Making him ache also doesn't give him any enthusiasm to hold himself in that manner in future. By only asking for a little real work at a time, the horse gradually builds the right muscles, the task becomes easier for him and he is then more inclined to do as you say.

As his muscle builds you gradually ask him to carry himself nicely for longer and longer each time, same goes for shortening the length of rein. This is not a quick fix and will take months of work but you will have a horse who carries himself at the end of it. Even when established, make sure your sessions include regular breaks where he gets to work on a long rein. Remember to reward a good effort rather than constantly asking and never saying thank-you. You can't fight half a ton of cob, and IME a few words of encouragement will be more effective than a big stick.

Lastly, I recommend you lunge without gadgets. He may look like he's moving nice but there's every chance he's leaning on the bit. If there's no contact he can't lean on it.

 

[BorgRae]

I’m so sorry for the late reply (I’m sneeking on my PC at work!!)

Thank you all so much for your replies. I am tending to think he is stale, so will definitely increase the hacking. My YO has offered to take us to the beach/Beacon Fell/other fun rides, so will take her up on that and see if I can get him listening and bring the fun back a bit. I’ll also try and build the courage to jump a bit more!!

I was actually only saying the other day, that he lives the life or riley, and I only ask for an hour 5 times a week!!! I wish I could do that! Lol!

In response to some of the other questions posed, I have had my YO and instructor ride him, and he is just as much of a sod for them, but they do get him to listen eventually and probably quicker than me!!

I try to vary the schooling, lots of leg yielding, shoulder in, half circles, loops etc, so try not to make it a dull experience for him, and constantly ask questions.

I also have another horse that I ride regularly (well it’s mothers really, at 60, she doesn’t ride much, so I keep him ticking over for her). And I ride my YO’s horse (he’s lush!). She has offered for me to have lessons on him once a month to keep me ticking over!!

I do think that professional schooling would probably do him the world of good (and save me from giving up!!), however, will try the hacking and fun rides, and see if I can conquer him first! If that doesn’t I’ll either turn him away for a bit or send him for schooling…

Many many thanks for all of your help, I really do appreciate it!!

 

[Miss L Toe]

Sounds a bit like my boy [8], always a difficult nature, needs a busier life, a bit of jumping and PC or RC things to do, he has never got bored of schooling [only started this year][I now have my instructor ride him once a week], just prefers to have a lot of variety, more excitement, and mostly prefers getting his "own way". I am trying desperately to get him a new home, so far without success. He would probably be fine with the average teenager who wants to jump the same little crosspoles every day, and chat to friends, go out every day and eat every night.

 

[AmyMay]

Lol, think I've probably got a bit lost and off on a tangent.

I suppose the one and only point I'm trying to make, my inital one is that I see nothing wrong with schooling a horse, in an arena a few times a week and it if is being evasive in said arena because it is 'bored' or doesn't find schooling 'fun' then I wouldn't be giving it a holiday or hacking it anymore. If, like be positive said the horse is physically fit and healthy and the schooling sessions aren't too long and are kept interesting than I don't think there's any excuse for a horse to continually misbehave and evade simply because it 'doesnt enjoy the school'

I think we'd all agree that there's nothing wrong with schooling a horse. However if the horse is bored, then simply continuing in the same vein will not solve the problem. So you look for alternatives. If taking the horse out of the arena is that alternative, so be it.

As they say, no point flogging a dead horse........

 

[AmyMay]

My YO has offered to take us to the beach/Beacon Fell/other fun rides, so will take her up on that

Brilliant. You'll both enjoy doing those sort of things so much.

 

[HazyXmas]

OP, it sounds like a good plan

Please post some pictures of your exciting rides, i'm very jealous, sure you & your horse will have a wonderful time, enjoy x