A poser for you

[volatis]

Can anyone tell me if there are sporthorse stallions descending from the Thoroughbred sire line of Grey Sovereign, ideally through Zeddaan/Kalamoun or Caro.
I'm hoping there might be one in France or Germany somewhere, as I cnt think of any here in the UK (off the top of my head)

Just edited to add I have found this one with Caro on the grandddam side http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10064737

sorry to edit again, Heroicity, Australian sire, has Caro as grandsire and has Grey Sovereign three times in his pedigree. Why does his name seem familiar??

 

[seabiscuit]

Yes, there are two that I know of-

Weld- standing at Langallar stud
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/weld

There is accondy, now deceased but I wonder if he still has frozen?
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/accondy

 

[volatis]

Fantastic. I'd totally forgotten Weld was Kalaglow, and didnt realise Accondy was Kalamoun on the dam side. I am sure Hobgoblins will know if there is any frozen for him.
Genius!

 

[tikino]

there is good quality frozen seman still available for accondy but only if you live in the uk according to the wedsite
http://www.summerhillstud.co.uk/details.asp?id=accondy

 

[clair]

Just had a look out of curiosity, it's supprising just how much the T/B has changed in a relatively short space of time from then to modern day. The conformation of Grey Sovereign isn.t dissimaler to my old PRE stallion.

P.S sorry can't spell for toffee.

 

[seabiscuit]

Cool ! I hope that they still have some Accondy semen left, they must do...Just out of interest- have you found those particular bloodlines to be very significant in sport horse breeding?

 

[volatis]

Well I have been doing some serious anorak research on my TB mare's bloodlines, and those TB people really know their mare families! Anyway I have been trying to research her mare family, 6f, which is the family of Grey Sovereign.

I have always really liked Caro offspring, I totally feel in love with a mare at Tattersalls a few years ago and if I had the money.... And I do hear Caro's name mentioned when discussing good TB names to see in a sporthorse pedigree.

So going off what I like myself, what links back into her own family, I thought i was worth seeing if I could find stallions carrying that blood. Weld does look like the stamp she needs from what I know of him, but would want to see him in the flesh. Accondy I need to research the strengths and weaknesses he has passed on. Then of course have to pray for a filly. Problem with Accondy is I cant regsiter the foal with Wetherbys (the old AI problem) and if it was a filly I'd like to present it for Trakehner approval in the future. (Talk about planning ahead!)

 

[seabiscuit]

Very interesting!! You could always see if there are some racehorse stallions about that have that bloodline . Sallyf or SN might know. Kenmare is standing in France but goodness knows what his stud fee is!

 

[sallyf]

If i can find a current Weatherbys sires book i will see what decendents there are around now

 

[lornaA]

hey weld and accondy have a lot of common amcestors to my mare: http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/guelders+miss+megan

don't know of any stallions that'd be of use to you though as i believe megans dad has been gelded.

 

[seabiscuit]

There is Beauchamp king, standing in Italy for 2,000 euros. Andrew Nicholson is eventing a few horses by him.

 

[seabiscuit]

aHA!! This is the one that you may like- has a fantastic sport horse pedigree- with Precipitation and Buckpasser as well as being directly by Caro !

http://www.lanwades.com/l_stallions/withapproval_d_pedigree.asp

 

[nijinsky]

This is all very interesting, I seem to spend all my time looking at TB pedigrees (I am above all a TB lover)!

My new mare that I've bought to be a broodmare has Grey Sovereign in her dam lines, along with Busted

 

[sallyf]

I have found loads in the Weatherbys sires book ,nearly all grey and mostly expensive but probably the most interesting one would be SHB graded stallion Baryshnikov who stands in Wiltshire

 

[volatis]

That's the problem with the racing stallions - stud fees are a little higher!

Baryshnikov looks interesting, I wonder what the SHB comments were on him. I see Val De Loir in the bottom half of his pedigree - love a bit of French blood. And it is the female family of Durtal, so super staying blood. No mention of any sport horse offspring though and £1750 for a stud fee would buy me an awful lot of sporthorse performance from a WB sire. Unless they do a cheaper stud fee for sporthorse mares?

i'm still trying to see if any of this bloodline has been used in mainland Europe in any of the warmblood studbooks.

 

[sallyf]

Sacha i expect that he would have got virtually automatic grading with the SHB because of his timeform rating just having to pass vetting and conformation.
I also would think he was a lot cheaper for sport horse mares.
He is at a very good stud run by a vet .
He has had stock do well at the Pavo young horse championships .
There is a really nice german stallion called sternkonig.
pivotal,kyllachy,needwood blade ,indesatchal,deportivo are some English stallions but very racing orientated ones.
Linamix is a french stallion who may appear in sport horse breeding as he is used for NH breeding.
Then ther are American horses like Marias Mons who again is very racing orientated although it might be worth looking at the American eventing lists as there were other nice horses over there and there does tend to be a cross over from high class race horses to eventers over there

 

[volatis]

I like Sternkonig, but as a racing stallion I bet they dont AI, and I dont think I can justify sending ehr to Germany to cover

Linamix I already had a nose at, again a little out of my league.
Apparently Kaldoun has a lot of offspring in the Selle Francais register so need a French contact to see if they can find any half bred sons that are available AI.
Will have a good look at Baryshinkov though. Thanks for the heads up on that

 

[sallyf]

Yes i think the french stallions could be the way forward as they allow there TB stallions to AI so could well be something there.
Fair mix is by Linamix and is another in this country but would be natural cover only although they may well do a deal for a sport horse mare.
I have a friend in France and she was saying that France gallop will register her foals out of TB mares by AI by TB stallions but she cant bring them to this country to race or sell.
So France Gallop could be another avenue to try for breeding sport horses .

 

[alleycat]

So can the offspring got by AI be raced in France & also used for further breeding?

 

[lizzie_liz]

Very interesting, my mares Great grandad on her sire side is Grey sovereign and I can see where she gets her shape from.

 

[firm]

Very interesting thread Volatis

I wish there was more research about TB lines for sport in the UK. Just read the interesting article about Miners Frolic in H&H.
Does anyone remember Red Crescent the eventing stallion? I think he was a TB and wondered what his pedigree was?

I found a video of With Approval and he does look a fab stallion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B_CBvfEjrC8

SHBGB did at one point arrange special stud fees for some racing stallions for SHBGB graded mares but that was a few years back .

 

[volatis]

Trying to find out more about this stallion Seigneur who I know stood in Germany and covered sporthorse mares.
http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/seigneur

I have to say With Approval is gorgeous. What a proper stamp of a TB. I'd love to see him cover some sporthorse mares.

 

[volatis]

I love on the Lanwades stud site you can do a pedigree mock up of your mare crossed with one of their stallions. Doing that made me realise Arctic Tern (Persia's dam sire's sire) shares a granddam with the great Northern Dancer.

 

[Laafet]

LOL, T is Northern Dancers great great grandson but with TB's that's not that uncommon. As for the stallions suggested, Needwood Blade is lovely and produces some cracking looking types. Linamix I would not touch with a barge pole for temperament although they seem pretty sound when they aren't trying to kill themselves or their riders.

 

[volatis]

I know ND is in most pedigrees. It was his granddam Almahmoud that I didnt realise was also the granddam of Arctic Tern, through her daughter Bubbling Beauty. She must have been some mare. In fact she is also the granddam of Halo, through another daughter Cosmah.
It's ND's dam Natalma that I knew of, but its the granddam who is the real influence in that family!

 

[Laafet]

It's a shame that Act One is so expensive for the sports horse market as he has Kalamoun on his dam's side and can vouch for him having a nice temprament.

 

[kpoundsbery]

Some of the big European WB studs also have at least 1 tb stallion standing, have you tried looking at their pedigree's?
I know VDL, Zangersheide and Selle Francais all have tb or almost tb stallions.

 

[sallyf]

Im not sure of the technicalities all my friend said who lives in France was that she could AI her TB mares with French TB stallions but couldnt bring them here to race or sell which i assume means that she could there.
But they arnt really any good if you cant sell or race them anywhere else as worth nothing as again you wouldnt be able to breed from them here either.

 

[sallyf]

Miners lamp gets his ability to produce sport horses from his temperamental sire High Top who is also the sire of Poetic Justice another very good producer of sport horses.

 

[Partoow]

This is an interesting thread as the Grey soverein line is one of my favourites!
It can be seen in the KWPN book in the form of Persian Path.
This was a very highly rated TB and seen in many good brood mares.
My stallion whichis Ferro has a Persian Path Dam.
There was a super HIS stallion a feew 'moons' ago called Town and Country and he was lovely and all of the stamp of this blood line.
It is very 'Typey' and i am sure it is the root of my stallions qualiity. he was supreme champion at his grading His dam , who had him at 19 after a full career in sport and was a 1m60cm horse jumping in the Netherlands.
The other two offspring , both fillies have gone on to Keur Pref status themselves and one was champion yearing and then produced champion yearlings herself.
Its a wonderful bloodline and the breeder of ferro had several Persian Path brood mares himself.