A question about jumping - rider position

Bernster

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How do you learn correct jumping position? Or, for those who teach, how do you get people to adopt the right position? I'm thinking about show jumping primarily.

What tips do you have - jumping without stirrups, practising the position without jumping, starting over poles or doing grids...?

I've seen a few threads with some helpful hints and I do have lessons but I tend to focus on what the horse is doing and less on which bits of me should do what, at whatever time. I've had biomechanics explained for normal non-jumping position, but not for jumping.

I have a whole heap of issues with my position, the main ones being a tendency to stand up in my stirrups and not giving the rein on take off.
 

DressageCob

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My instructor puts us into the position in the halt, then when we're working in we practice it. Then once you've just about got it in each gait we start doing it over trotting poles and canter poles, eg sit up for the first pole, fold for the second, sit up, fold etc to get used to going into the position swiftly. Then start introducing the jump.

But each instructor has a different approach I think. I have a tendency to stand bolt upright too! which is why I've had so many lessons focussing on my position :D
 

scoobydoo1236

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I'm not an instructor but ride BE and BSJA. My tips are to not try and get too much space between you and the saddle, but simply imagine that your bum is being dragged back against the cantle, and then with your fold, go with the movement of the horse. Your legs need to stay in a forward position, not as you would have them for dressage, as the more forward they are the more secure they are so you can have your support. As for your hands, place them either side of the horses neck and slide them along, just enough so that the horse doesn't get really pulled in the mouth, but that if they're a horse who likes some support from the hands that you can give them that gentle support. As you land maintain the forward position so as not to put the horse off balance, and then slowly sit back u, ready to ride to then next fence. Hope this helps :)
 

LeannePip

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Im not an instructor and dont ride to any great level but will pop my two cents in;
I was taught your lower leg is your seatbelt, always put it on to jump, if your horse stops this is what is going to keep you on the horse! so when the horse is 'bowling'/taking me in i just sit up think of the rythm start counting, not neccesarily my strides but if you count you keep the rythm, wait for the fence and 'put my seat belt on' and try not to think about folding, but giving the horse my hands light wrists and arms and she can take as much rein as she needs to; im not socking her in the mouth but dont throw the reins away. i'm not that keen on watching kids get taught their jumping positions over small poles on the floor as think this causes the over exageration you see alot of kids do, jumping something about 2ft with their hands around the ponies ears and their faces on their necks, lower leg is all out the window, no control after the fence and when pony stops they sumersault over the heads! i think of staying close to the horse and letting them come up underneath you and not throwing yourself into any sort of 'position'
 

Bernster

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My instructor puts us into the position in the halt, then when we're working in we practice it. Then once you've just about got it in each gait we start doing it over trotting poles and canter poles, eg sit up for the first pole, fold for the second, sit up, fold etc to get used to going into the position swiftly. Then start introducing the jump.

I do wonder if I'd be better practising over poles without having to think about the actual jumping. Might try that at home before my next lesson, thanks.

But each instructor has a different approach I think. I have a tendency to stand bolt upright too! which is why I've had so many lessons focussing on my position :D

I'm not an instructor but ride BE and BSJA. My tips are to not try and get too much space between you and the saddle, but simply imagine that your bum is being dragged back against the cantle, and then with your fold, go with the movement of the horse. Your legs need to stay in a forward position, not as you would have them for dressage, as the more forward they are the more secure they are so you can have your support. As for your hands, place them either side of the horses neck and slide them along, just enough so that the horse doesn't get really pulled in the mouth, but that if they're a horse who likes some support from the hands that you can give them that gentle support. As you land maintain the forward position so as not to put the horse off balance, and then slowly sit back u, ready to ride to then next fence. Hope this helps :)

Im not an instructor and dont ride to any great level but will pop my two cents in;
I was taught your lower leg is your seatbelt, always put it on to jump, if your horse stops this is what is going to keep you on the horse! so when the horse is 'bowling'/taking me in i just sit up think of the rythm start counting, not neccesarily my strides but if you count you keep the rythm, wait for the fence and 'put my seat belt on' and try not to think about folding, but giving the horse my hands light wrists and arms and she can take as much rein as she needs to; im not socking her in the mouth but dont throw the reins away. i'm not that keen on watching kids get taught their jumping positions over small poles on the floor as think this causes the over exageration you see alot of kids do, jumping something about 2ft with their hands around the ponies ears and their faces on their necks, lower leg is all out the window, no control after the fence and when pony stops they sumersault over the heads! i think of staying close to the horse and letting them come up underneath you and not throwing yourself into any sort of 'position'

Hmm, must try to think about not having too much space between me and the saddle. I'm jumping low heights so I really don't need to fold much. Thinking about folding prob means I'm thinking 'up' too much which leads to standing up re there than genuinely folding from the hip.

Also like the idea of legs being your security, to focus on keeping those on and secure. Thanks!
 

sportsmansB

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Funny this is quite pertinent to me too at the moment
I have had lessons with one person for years (my ex lol) a pro event rider. I was riding his horses and he 'moulded' me to ride the way he wanted
For various reasons I am now riding a horse quite different to what I was used to (greener!) and having lessons with whomever pops along to my yard and does a clinic/riding club - mainly because its good for the horse to be in that environment. Ex owns horse and pops in once every 2/3 weeks to get us back on his way of going..
One of the teachers has quite a different view to my ex- wants me to sit down until take off and then stand up fairly straight, land on flexible knees and sit down again. My ex had me ride pretty much in light seat, fold slightly, back to light seat again.I am at the moment a horrendous mis-timed mixture of both.... Think I will just go back to what I know :)
 

TableDancer

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There are lots of ways to teach/learn jump position as you can already see from this thread :) There are also lots of jumping positions being taught, some of which are, well, more right than others :rolleyes:

Teaching a beginner to jump is a bit different from improving the jumping position of an experienced rider who wants to perfect their technique. For the latter, if you can manage it, in my opinion NOTHING beats being lunged repeatedly over a fence. The vast majority of faults in jumping position are associated with a loss of balance, and lungeing will enable you to pinpoint any problems and address them.

You need a reasonably quiet horse ie not a loon, and a reasonably experienced lunger, obviously. We start with a very small fence then move onto one a bit bigger, maybe 85cm ish? As it needs to be big enough for you to really feel the phases of the jump. If you can, with short stirrups - a little shorter than you would normally jump at - and no reins, canter in a two point seat, jump, and land in a two point seat and continue this way for several circuits without losing your balance before, after or over the fence, there won't be much wrong with your position!
 

Bernster

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There are lots of ways to teach/learn jump position as you can already see from this thread :) There are also lots of jumping positions being taught, some of which are, well, more right than others :rolleyes:

Teaching a beginner to jump is a bit different from improving the jumping position of an experienced rider who wants to perfect their technique. For the latter, if you can manage it, in my opinion NOTHING beats being lunged repeatedly over a fence. The vast majority of faults in jumping position are associated with a loss of balance, and lungeing will enable you to pinpoint any problems and address them.

You need a reasonably quiet horse ie not a loon, and a reasonably experienced lunger, obviously. We start with a very small fence then move onto one a bit bigger, maybe 85cm ish? As it needs to be big enough for you to really feel the phases of the jump. If you can, with short stirrups - a little shorter than you would normally jump at - and no reins, canter in a two point seat, jump, and land in a two point seat and continue this way for several circuits without losing your balance before, after or over the fence, there won't be much wrong with your position!

Thanks TB - there are def some little nuggets of info., or handy tips, that help me correct my (many) defects! Bum back and hands forward has worked for me but in the red mist the descends before a jump I seem to forget all about it and default to my usual position!

The very fact that your lunging tip makes me go **GULP** shows that I'm not confident enough in my balance, doesn't it?! And that this is exactly what I should be doing to improve it! I might start out by having a session in the school, with one teeny x-pole and focussing on my position with someone on the ground to help and see how I go from there!
 

LittleTero

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Talking about jumping positions always interests me. I used to spend hours and hours worrying about mine (it isn't good) and now I just don't think about it. Prob not a good thing to admit. But I say it because since giving up caring my jumping has really improved. Instead of thinking too much about me I think about keeping my horse happy. Sometimes my position and my leg leaves a heck of a lot to be desired (I've been lucky that my only good point ever is pretty good at giving my rein) but I seem to have much better results when jumping any horse. I get from one side to the other cleanly a lot more often and I think it's because I'm relaxed and go with it. Going with it doesn't always look 'correct' but it seems the horses are happier than me stiffening or freezing (which I used to do a lot!) because I was worrying so much about what I looked like that I didn't actually ride, whether that riding may always be good or not is another matter but nor 'riding' was causing me a lot more problems than just reacting in the way that felt natural and comfortable. And me being natural and comfortable seems to be making my horses happier and more willing than when I kept changing everything and never being consistent into a fence. Now and again I'd get it right but not very often, and I also never used to be able to see a stride and now that has got a lot better too.....I guess I think of me over the fence the way I do a horse, some need to be moving more forward and some needed holding shorter, and I guess we have our own natural way of adapting to things and if it works and is safe I'm starting to think hey it's fine. I know that's not really a good way to look at it and am almost a touch blush to come out with it but hey I guess that's just me. I only thought I'd write it because I've never seen anyone else write this and I wonder if I'm the only one???
 

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Talking about jumping positions always interests me. I used to spend hours and hours worrying about mine (it isn't good) and now I just don't think about it. Prob not a good thing to admit. But I say it because since giving up caring my jumping has really improved. Instead of thinking too much about me I think about keeping my horse happy. Sometimes my position and my leg leaves a heck of a lot to be desired (I've been lucky that my only good point ever is pretty good at giving my rein) but I seem to have much better results when jumping any horse. I get from one side to the other cleanly a lot more often and I think it's because I'm relaxed and go with it. Going with it doesn't always look 'correct' but it seems the horses are happier than me stiffening or freezing (which I used to do a lot!) because I was worrying so much about what I looked like that I didn't actually ride, whether that riding may always be good or not is another matter but nor 'riding' was causing me a lot more problems than just reacting in the way that felt natural and comfortable. And me being natural and comfortable seems to be making my horses happier and more willing than when I kept changing everything and never being consistent into a fence. Now and again I'd get it right but not very often, and I also never used to be able to see a stride and now that has got a lot better too.....I guess I think of me over the fence the way I do a horse, some need to be moving more forward and some needed holding shorter, and I guess we have our own natural way of adapting to things and if it works and is safe I'm starting to think hey it's fine. I know that's not really a good way to look at it and am almost a touch blush to come out with it but hey I guess that's just me. I only thought I'd write it because I've never seen anyone else write this and I wonder if I'm the only one???

I would agree with this to a large extent. There is much more room for individuality in jumping, relative to dressage competition, and people do have very distinct "styles". Also, horses deal with consistency, even if it's not perfect, much more easily than they cope with inconsistency, which can make making changes a bit tricky.

I do think there is a middle ground though, where the right advice can give you the tools to improve without making you too self conscious and upsetting the horse. I will agree with TD, though, that teaching novices is not necessarily the same as teaching more experienced people and the former is much easier and formulaic than the latter.
 

bex1984

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Someone posted on here a while ago saying something like 'just think: bum back, shoulders down, let your hands follow'. That was a lightbulb for me. If I think about folding, giving with my hands, or anything like that, I throw myself forwards like a crazed frog (you know when they do a massive jump from a standstill? That's me.) I've had lessons over the years, and no one has ever picked up on this and just said 'BUM BACK!' but when I remember that I am sooo much more secure. I have to really work to get my pony into and over a fence so I'm never very elegant and or balanced by the time I get there. Holding the mane also works for me in terms of keeping me where I should be.
 

Bernster

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Yes, I think the bum back thing is probably a good fix for people, like me, who have a tendency to stand up on take off. Just annoyed with myself that I never seem to remember it. P'rhaps I should stick it to my jump saddle, or the horse's neck !

I get how being more relaxed and just going with the horse could help, rather than getting too hung up on the exact mechanics. But there do seem to be some fundamentals to learn otherwise you're not in balance or are liable to tip off at any moment. Funnily enough (and touching a lot of wood!), it's actually very rare for me to fall off (although I seem to have a pathalogical fear of it) so hopefully I'm not so wobbly in my position; I just hate it when I don't do it right !
 

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Heehee love to - can't be any wetter than it is here right now :p Poor old miniTD is on the lunge most days either flat or jumping right now - it's a great time of year to put right those basics which you don't have time to address mid-season :)
 

TarrSteps

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I was giving this a bit of thought yesterday. . .the litmus test of 'a' jumping position is that it should be safe and effective. Being in a 'perfect' position is no use if the rider is restrictive or ineffective, but equally, 'going with the flow' needs to be judged on how it affects the horse. (Leaving the poles up is not a good indicator - most horses can make up for a lot but then there are some that don't mind having the rail even with a very good ride.)

One test is the ability to sustain and regroup. Jumping single fences is fine but it doesn't show the cracks as well as repetition, as in TD's exercises, or jumping related distances etc. Even very small fences can be strung together in testing ways and then it's just a case of being honest with yourself.
 

LittleTero

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If I knew how I'd post a pic (shock horror certainly asking for trouble!) as tbh my position isn't really that bad, and from a little google image search of pros sj they aren't always in the perfect position but it doesn't mean they don't have it as such but you can't be 100% over every fence. I guess what I'm saying is I don't really worry anymore and my position has actually got better for it instead of being too mechanical in my attempts making it much less correct. Now and again still have some very odd positions but as a general not that bad except for some lower leg. Anyone know how to upload from phone and I'll take the plunge!!
 

Bernster

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I was giving this a bit of thought yesterday. . .the litmus test of 'a' jumping position is that it should be safe and effective. Being in a 'perfect' position is no use if the rider is restrictive or ineffective, but equally, 'going with the flow' needs to be judged on how it affects the horse. (Leaving the poles up is not a good indicator - most horses can make up for a lot but then there are some that don't mind having the rail even with a very good ride.)

One test is the ability to sustain and regroup. Jumping single fences is fine but it doesn't show the cracks as well as repetition, as in TD's exercises, or jumping related distances etc. Even very small fences can be strung together in testing ways and then it's just a case of being honest with yourself.

Well, i fail on that one I think - I do find it harder to sit back in time to re group for a double. Should I do more grid work do you think?

LittleT - very brave! I was looking at pics the other day and most of mine are pretty crummy tbh. But then again, I'm never happy unless I've got something to improve on lol.
 

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Grid work is definitely helpful - once horse has been through it once or twice he will know what to do so you can forget about him and concentrate on yourself.

TS I agree with your last post re positions, but for me the fundamental point is that te rider should be capable of staying in as perfect balance as possible with the horse through all the phases of the jump, without relying on externals like the reins or the neck for support. IME approximately 80-90% of riders I teach would fail this test and this is what I strive to improve, position-wise. Once this basis is in place, as it would be for most top level SJers and eventers, then you can do a variety of different things with your balance to help the horse cope with a particular situation, to improve the jump, whatever. But that is part of having an independent seat - what an old-fashioned term which you seldom hear these days - isn't it, just like on the flat. The rider should be able to choose to do whatever is required with each part of their body, without influencing any other part, in order to ride the horse effectively, both on the flat and over fences :)
 

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If I knew how I'd post a pic (shock horror certainly asking for trouble!) as tbh my position isn't really that bad, and from a little google image search of pros sj they aren't always in the perfect position but it doesn't mean they don't have it as such but you can't be 100% over every fence.

The height of the fence needs to be taken into account also. The position of a pro over a 1.60m oxer might be a lot different to his position over a 2'6 upright on a green 4 year old!
 
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