A question regarding feed and work levels

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Patches

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I have a hypothetical question.

A horse's work consists mostly of being hacked. Ridden five times a week and four out of five of the sessions are hacks. Two hacks over three hours each, one of two and a half hours and the other at 2 hours. Hacking is mainly on the roads so pretty much just an active walk with trotting. Horse sweats during work. Fifth ride is a schooling session that consists of 20 mins on the lunge and 20 under saddle.

Horse feels a bit lazy when owner tries to school. Owner doesn't feed horse, apart from a small handful of hi-fi lite to put a supplement in as it's a good do-er type and they say horse is only in very light work. Horse is out 24/7 on very short, but nice grass.

Does that typical week's work constitute as just "very light" work? How would you classify it's work level and would you suggest said horse needs more calories, and therefore feeding?

If so, what would you be feeding a good do-er type horse in this type of work?
 
I'd say that was more light to medium work, and (depending on the horse's condition and behaviour) I'd be feeding a coarse mix for light to medium work...starting small (handful) but not feeding more than a scoop a day.
But it depends on whether the grass is good, it's fed haylage, its age and so much else.
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Horse not fed Haylage. It's out 24/7 on pretty decent grass that's very short though. Horse wears a light weight turnout over night now it's getting colder. Every few days owner puts some soaked hay out to give the horse some long stem fibre for it's gut.

Horse isn't aged, it's under 10 and is not a hot headed ride at all.
 
I would say work was more light to medium, than very light work, but that said, if horse was maintaining it's body weight, still wouldn't feed it. Mine does about the same, with a few dressage tests (Novice and Prelims) and the odd 10 miles sponsored ride, and still does get fed (except Hi-Fi and Vit/Min Supp.). Gosh that makes me sound like a very bad mummy.
 
In theory there are all sorts of rationing calculations you can do - but a standard amount is 2.5% of bodyweight in total, divided into forage and concentrates. Of course, it's hard to guess how much grass he eats, and what the values are at any given time.
If the horse is ok, has energy, keeps condition, heals well from cuts etc and looks well, I'd leave him as he is.
If not, gradually start feeding a bit of coarse mix chosen to suit him.
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Well Id say what Isnt broke, doesnt need fixing, it sounds like the horse is happy doing what its doing and it doesnt need any more (Id say the laziness in the school was just laziness & wouldnt be solved by feeding, given he's only schooled for 20 mins a week!) or less energy!

Our pony does a similar level of work, but tends to do more schooling, he lives on fresh air & is none the worse!
 
Doesn't make you sound a bad mum at all. Your horse obviously copes well with workload and it's diet.

What if your horse seemed to be lacking stamina on your 10 mile sponsored rides or seemed a bit dull in the school. Would you put that down to needing more energy from feeding? The hacks in the week range from 8 - 13 miles.
 
I should have pointed out that the horses schooling has been dropped off simply because the horse seems very dull and lethargic after 20 minutes in the school. Horse has been ridden by the owner over open land at farm rides etc. Horse used to anticipate gallops/cantering and jog alot and would just take canter as soon as it felt owner bridge reins etc. Horse now needs kicking on to canter and wants to break stride sooner than it would normally do. Horse just seems to be more tired and yet horse is kept in regular work. Horse used to go on farm rides without as much regular work and kept up the pace happily.

Horse is totally sound, had back/teeth/tack checked and been assessed by a vet. Horse is lean for it's type especially given the time of year.
 
You've answered your own query regarding whether it needs feeding then. Work does require more protein for wear and tear, and more energy for fuel, so maybe a little feeding will do it.
I'd start small and only feed the minimum to restore him to his normal self...and pick a coarse mix for light to medium work...
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Now this really is going to make me sound bad!!!

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What if your horse seemed to be lacking stamina on your 10 mile sponsored rides

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She has tired over the last half mile of some sponsored rides, but I just put that down to her being a twit and jogging/cantering the 1st 8miles!!!

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or seemed a bit dull in the school.

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She does go a bit dead in the school sometimes, but I put that down to her finding schooling boring, as she never feels dead when I do a dressage comp.

Your horse may be different, but I really do think I could pump mine full of oats and it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference to the way she went, except she would be fatter!!!
 
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I should have pointed out that the horses schooling has been dropped off simply because the horse seems very dull and lethargic after 20 minutes in the school. Horse has been ridden by the owner over open land at farm rides etc. Horse used to anticipate gallops/cantering and jog alot and would just take canter as soon as it felt owner bridge reins etc. Horse now needs kicking on to canter and wants to break stride sooner than it would normally do. Horse just seems to be more tired and yet horse is kept in regular work. Horse used to go on farm rides without as much regular work and kept up the pace happily.

Horse is totally sound, had back/teeth/tack checked and been assessed by a vet. Horse is lean for it's type especially given the time of year.

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Ahh so she isn't just quieter in the school, she is quieter out hacking too. O.K. them would probably consider giving a bit of feed, or maybe adding Pro Pell.
 
That's how I've always felt. Horsey would just be fatter.

Thing is, I wonder if horsey would have more energy to do more things and therefore burn the excess calories anyway? Take jumping....horsey just can't be bothered with fences after a couple of times, when horsey normally razzes at the sight of a fence. Instead of being towed into a fence, you now have to kick them into them for example.

It's been an odd year really. Winter coats in early and 20+ degrees in the day but only 6 - 8 degrees overnight. Grass seems to be stop/starting with growing. Field is very green, but grass is very short.

Horse is toned, but seems to be just dropping some cover behind that shouldn't be dropping off through lack of work.

I guess we soldier along as the energy levels just drop off slowly. One day we suddenly realise horsey's not quite "right" stamina wise.
 
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You've answered your own query regarding whether it needs feeding then. Work does require more protein for wear and tear, and more energy for fuel, so maybe a little feeding will do it.
I'd start small and only feed the minimum to restore him to his normal self...and pick a coarse mix for light to medium work...
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YUP! Seems I have answered my own not-so-hypothetical question. I feel really bad. Patches seems to have been slowly dropping off bit by bit. Hit home today when someone commented on how trim she was looking for her type of horse. I don't think she looks that thin, but this person clearly did as the comment didn't come over as a compliment.
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Hello,

I reckon you've sort of answered your own question, totally agree with "if it's not broke don't fix it" but you mention that the horse used to have more energy and schooling sessions have stopped as the horse was becoming lazier, you also mention the horse is lean for type. I would say in that case maybe the horse does need a few extra calories. Maybe not a full ration of hard feed but possibly introduce a part ration. Agree with Shilasdair if the horse seems lacking in sparkle and is not a hot-headed type and not prone to lammi then a low energy mix seems like a good place to start.
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This is the time of year (normally Sept comes after a summer LOL) when Patches should be looking at her most voluptuous ready for the winter. If you do start feeding, and she puts huge amounts of weight on too quickly, then you know that it wasn't needed, and you can stop feeding again, with no harm done. I presume, though that you'd like her to gain a bit more condition...if you think she's a bit lean?
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Now if mine was to drop off slightly, apart from being amazed (she lives off thin air), I would think about increasing her feed to include some mix or oats, especially if it was coupled with a loss of energy. I would then just monitor her weight and see what happened (could always cut the feed again).
 
I don't really like them to get fat over summer using the old "but they'll drop it over winter". I prefer to try and maintain roughly the same weight year round. However, I should really consider the fact that Patches has in the past dropped alot over winter if the weather has been particularly inclement and cold. Whilst I prefer to think of her as "fit and lean" and not underweight, other people with cob types like her would normally have them fatter. Having said that, alot won't do as much hacking over the distances and frequencies that I do with Patches in a week so their weight is likely to be through a lack of work more than anything else.

I guess the thing is that she couldn't really lose much more over winter and she will be clipped shortly too which won't help (she goes like a yak). If she was a thoroughbred, you'd say she was fat....but she's not. She's a big ole cob blob who looks pretty lean I guess. Her ribs aren't on show but she no longer has an apple bum (which I thought she'd never lose) and I can feel her ribs effortlessly. Her withers also seems more noticeable....especially given that she's what most would assume to be a flat table top type cob.

I have some pictures but my pooter is playing silly buggers and won't let me upload them.
 
Not a lot, grass & mineral block for me with hay in the winter. Depends on the horse but I'm avoid the supplements as IMO he isn't doing a lot, you'll tire a long time before the horse and if they're sweating my guess is they may be a little overweight. I notice a lot of folks compliment each other on their horses when infact they are overweight, I'm not saying yours is but well you asked
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Did you get the all clear with regards to F&M?
 
Has he started to get a coat yet, over in Norfolk the pavements are cracking under the heat. I notice the temperature drops a bit at night but rugs are out...short grass is full of energy he sounds like he's fine. Mine is always on restricted grazing and the grass is like a bowling green yet she can still produce 5/6 craps a day...so she must be getting it from somewhere oh and she's on arounf 1/4 acre
 
I wasn't implying you should fatten her over the summer at all, and in fact restrict my girls' grazing (although one is a mature TB).
But if they are curvy now, then it's more acceptable than, say, curvy in March...when they should be leaner.
Mine live out 24/7, and I find that the weather has a big impact - not so much how cold it is, but how wet and windy.
I am sure if you give your girlie something like a meadowherb mix, then she'll not get too fat, and might be a bit more energetic.
Good luck with her - she sounds groovey
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I wouldn't say horse was overweight. She has got her winter coat in already though which doesn't help matters. I'd clip her but I worry about sunburn and fly bites even with the bug rugs. She's a blue and white cob, so has incredibly pink skin.
 
I just answered your other post. lol

Yup, Patches is getting a winter coat, quite fluffy at the moment. I'm wary of clipping just yet though because it's so blooming hot and sunny here in the day. Today has been 22 degrees. Worry about her getting sunburnt with her being very pink skinned. We have fly rug issues so I don't like using them (the two we've tried have both rubbed her ample shoulders/chest). As there seems to be a fly invasion at present I don't want to cut her coat off and let them get to her skin easier.
 
Noooo....I didn't think you were. I'm absolutely paranoid about her getting fat with her being a cob type. She goes out on very short grass. It's that short that I had to take the muzzle off our Section A as she was dropping weight terribly. Now she's had her muzzle off, her weight is coming back nicely. They've used all their summer paddock strip grazing now. The rest of the field is dairy pasture that's so lush that I just daren't even strip graze any of it. They normally go into that area over winter when the cows are in.

We're used to rain at this time of year, causing grass to grow and paddocks to still have grass worthy of strip grazing.
 
I can understand the rugs then as I don't clip mine in the winter only around the crown of the hoof. Thing is we're all told to feed out horses this that & the other and yet 99% of us are happy hackers or do the occassional show. Mine is being ridden 5/6 times a week is 17 years old and we gallop everywhere!!! She is as fit as a fiddle in excellent health I just feed her as I said before and keep the serving & MOT up to date. Living out is the best start IMO I believe that if you can keep it natural put the effort in the keep them looking & feeling good that is the best way but with nights creeping in this is the time when we begin to let it go
 
I agree BBF, and feed company rations are always shockingly generous, in my opinion - I don't think I've ever fed that much and I've run big yards....
Living out is good, but the grass this year has been a bit unreliable..especially here in Glos.
We really need to make a sacrifice to the sun gods...any volunteers?
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I have an 18 year old son that I would happily offer up as the sacrificial lamb!
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Patches had a really bad chest infection earlier in the year brought about by hubby feeding her some yak hay. She's been on a clean air regime since then which is what is putting me off bringing them all in.

All that hay soaking for 4 horses! I was hoping they could stay out until the haylage is ready for feeding in about a month.

Like you, I've never fed feed company rations. Heck, it scares me seeing how much they say we should feed.
 
I agree grass has been almost too good where we are. I think we can be all too human in how we feed and I like to see my horse work her field by bening under the fences to pick at the next paddock, she is a pig so you can imagine how I reacted when the elctric fence went down and I saw her just standing in long grass because she'd pigged out. It too 2 knackering weeks to get her back to normal & a worn out whip
 
I'd speak to your local feed merchant and do some research yourself on the internet as it seems like Patches is lacking energy and also a little condition. It might be worth looking at a feed balancer or a course mix (I like Allen & Page) suitable for horses in light to medium work.
 
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