A realistic dream?! (Quite long sorry, need advice)

hannah9000

hannah9000

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My in-laws have offered my OH and I a cracking business opportunity:

A quick rundown of the current situation - We live on a farm, my OH is a partner in his dads long running turf business worth £4.5m. They also farm pigs. OH's dad wants him to take on the business but OH is unsure as he's worried he'll ruin all his dads hard work (he's not very confident) so they've offered us a joint venture until he's confident to take on the turf/pigs.....

They had planning permission 4 years ago to have a block of amercian barn style stables put on the farm. They wanted to start a livery but then decided they didn't have enough horse knowledge. Now i've come along, they've approached me with the chance to have these stables built, paid for by the farm, including a floodlit indoor school and plenty of turnout (they have 350 acres of land!). I'd pay them back in the form of monthly rent, but it would be a nominal amount as my OH and I will eventually be taking on the turfing/pig bit anyway.
We have a livery out the back of us, the YO rents our fields and I'm good friends with her, i've asked her if she'd back up the business, support me, and if she thinks there's a good market. She said yes to all.

I'm freaking out, because it's becoming a reality and i'm reading scare stories that liveries don't pay. I don't want to spend my in-laws money and then let them down (I sound as bad as my OH!) but I (and the YO) are confident that there's a good market for liveries here. Especially with the indoor school aspect. We've got ongoing access to plenty of hay, and the OH and his dad are very handy repair men!
I need to make sure I do EVERYTHING right and i'm bricking it! Even though the in-laws are very very lovely people. Am I letting the scare stories affect me too much? Should I just bite the bullet and do it?
How do I work out how much water/electric is going to cost? ARRRGH!
 
If you only need to pay nominal rent, you should have a much better chance at success than other livery businesses who rent the land and premises at market rates. It sounds like it would be a good idea to do a thorough budget. It may also be a good idea to draw up an agreement with your in laws, so you avoid any misunderstandings and potential conflicts.

It may be worth while considering also what would happen to you in the unlikely event that you split up with your OH... sorry to mention that...

Personally I would rather be independent however this does sound like a fab opportunity for you and a very kind offer by your in-laws.
 
Thank you :) I've thought over and over about the possibility of a split, it's highly unlikely but they all say that! I think i'm settling for 'cross that bridge if it comes to it' manner with regard to splitting, i'll regret it if I decline the offer on the basis of a what-if. Provided something is written up in the event of a split I should be ok.
I'm sure the inlaws will draw up agreements and the like, they are very good business people. I know my OH's dad has all the paperwork (cost of stables and labour etc) from when they had the planning permission granted years ago. So I guess my first step would be to see how much it's all going to cost to set up, only then will I be able to determine what rates to charge and what rent to agree to pay.
 
wow lucky you! What an opportunity! Of course there are going to be lots of ifs, buts and worries along the way but you will probably regret it if you dont take this opportunity. And your parents (in law ? sorry cant remember) would probably much rather you take over the business than sell it on to the unknown and you will have all their support and knowledge to get you going....

I would probably just research whether there is a market for liveries in the area and what kind of thing people are looking for e.g. diy, full, grass etc and fit the business round that to start with.

Good luck ( I wish I was in your shoes - I imagine its very scary but wow, not many people get to have a shot at their dream!)
 
One thing you might want to do is see what the rates would be on the business.

I think I'm right in saying that you pay rates for the number of stables you have, regardless of whether they are full or not, also an indoor will bump them up.

Good Luck in your venture :)
 
Sounds like a fantastic opportunity!!!

The indoor school is a big plus and if you can offer off-road hacking on the farm that would be superb! Demand will depend on the area, but one way of finding out is calling local livery yards and seeing if they have a waiting list, how much they charge, etc. It may also depend on what kind of livery you are interested in offering.

Your local bank should be able to help you put together a business plan which will include set up costs and on going costs such as insurance, taxes, utilities, etc. You may also want to look into staffing costs because you will need at least some holiday cover if not more permanent employees (depending on the number and type of liveries you offer).

One little point: many horses have a serious phobia with pigs (I've had two pig phobic horses in a row and nothing, not even moving to a livery yard with pigs, got them over it), so it may be a little negative point in respect to building an equestrian business.
 
Booboos said:
Sounds like a fantastic opportunity!!!

The indoor school is a big plus and if you can offer off-road hacking on the farm that would be superb! Demand will depend on the area, but one way of finding out is calling local livery yards and seeing if they have a waiting list, how much they charge, etc. It may also depend on what kind of livery you are interested in offering.

Your local bank should be able to help you put together a business plan which will include set up costs and on going costs such as insurance, taxes, utilities, etc. You may also want to look into staffing costs because you will need at least some holiday cover if not more permanent employees (depending on the number and type of liveries you offer).

One little point: many horses have a serious phobia with pigs (I've had two pig phobic horses in a row and nothing, not even moving to a livery yard with pigs, got them over it), so it may be a little negative point in respect to building an equestrian business.
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Lol, thanks for the heads up re pig phobic horses!! I have the full support and back up of a friend who owns the livery yard out the back of us. She's turning people away (she has a very good name round here) and has said she'd gladly point anyone in my direction. Staffing costs = nil. My mum!
 
All good points everyone else has mentioned and Business Link will be helpful, banks will provide guides to writing business plans.

I would take time and look about at what else is available in the area - visit as many as you can check out what they do and don't offer as though you are going to move there, and the charges - also what they charge for hay, bedding etc as by making own hay, hayledge etc there will be a mark up for your yard there too. Make a list immediately as you visit of the +ves and -ves and charges opf each yard and work out from that what you feel the area will support in terms of what you will charge (prob nowhere near as expensive as round here!) Check out security as well as safety, standard of fencing/grazing at these places too, as well as the usual. Look at posts on here, and I think some current horse mags have doen yard surveys recently too, for what people think of what they have and what their ideal yard offers.

I would think, given you will have brand new very nice facilities inc indoor that the way to go might be at the upper end of the market - full livery, or at least part livery & DIY at weekends to give you a break as that will be the best income per stable. Always remember you will be doing this to make a PROFIT: turnover is vanity, profit is sanity as my old manager used to say! Another important point will be making the place look the type of place people want to be at because it's kept up together and looks well run as well as having superb facilities - you need to emulate your YO and have a waiting list so you never need have an empty stable to lower your profit margin.


You could also look at costings of hiring out the school for neighbouring owners and your current YO liveries - it will immediately be a big asset to her business being next door. You could also look at running clinics with well known specialist instructors - SJ, dressage etc. to bring money in particularly mid week when the school might be unused.

I would ask your YO about help with ongoing costs for water, electricity insurance etc. If she's not keen on spending the time, you could maybe consider offering her a consultancy fee, as her advice and help will be invaluable. It will be in her interests to help you as I said, with the indoor school being there as an asset for her as well as you. If you do need any help with business planning do PM me as I've begun to dabble in business advice/helping new businesses set up and need some examples for my portfolio for when I eventually get my website up and running.

You could also consider looking at other things to bring in money longer term such as building a XC course (you have the man power and the space!)

Fantastic opportunity! You absolutely HAVE to go for it as your advantageous rent costs will set you up beautifully, and I'm sure you will have a very successful business! (I'm getting all excited on your behalf lol!)
 
Dubsie said:
All good points everyone else has mentioned and Business Link will be helpful, banks will provide guides to writing business plans.

I would take time and look about at what else is available in the area - visit as many as you can check out what they do and don't offer as though you are going to move there, and the charges - also what they charge for hay, bedding etc as by making own hay, hayledge etc there will be a mark up for your yard there too. Make a list immediately as you visit of the +ves and -ves and charges opf each yard and work out from that what you feel the area will support in terms of what you will charge (prob nowhere near as expensive as round here!) Check out security as well as safety, standard of fencing/grazing at these places too, as well as the usual. Look at posts on here, and I think some current horse mags have doen yard surveys recently too, for what people think of what they have and what their ideal yard offers.

I would think, given you will have brand new very nice facilities inc indoor that the way to go might be at the upper end of the market - full livery, or at least part livery & DIY at weekends to give you a break as that will be the best income per stable. Always remember you will be doing this to make a PROFIT: turnover is vanity, profit is sanity as my old manager used to say! Another important point will be making the place look the type of place people want to be at because it's kept up together and looks well run as well as having superb facilities - you need to emulate your YO and have a waiting list so you never need have an empty stable to lower your profit margin.


You could also look at costings of hiring out the school for neighbouring owners and your current YO liveries - it will immediately be a big asset to her business being next door. You could also look at running clinics with well known specialist instructors - SJ, dressage etc. to bring money in particularly mid week when the school might be unused.

I would ask your YO about help with ongoing costs for water, electricity insurance etc. If she's not keen on spending the time, you could maybe consider offering her a consultancy fee, as her advice and help will be invaluable. It will be in her interests to help you as I said, with the indoor school being there as an asset for her as well as you. If you do need any help with business planning do PM me as I've begun to dabble in business advice/helping new businesses set up and need some examples for my portfolio for when I eventually get my website up and running.

You could also consider looking at other things to bring in money longer term such as building a XC course (you have the man power and the space!)

Fantastic opportunity! You absolutely HAVE to go for it as your advantageous rent costs will set you up beautifully, and I'm sure you will have a very successful business! (I'm getting all excited on your behalf lol!)
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Oh dear! I was getting excited reading about you getting excited for me!! Wonderful suggestions and ones I shall definitely bear in mind. I will be approaching the in-laws with a whole barrage of questions/suggestions i'm sure!! My YO (she's not my YO she's a friend that runs the livery but that doesn't matter! lol) is more than willing to sit with me and run through various charges, costs, planning etc. She'll benefit alot from this as she's an instructor and my liveries may want schooling, so it'll be her name I recommend! She's also very excited!

Your security suggestion made me realise that we have an added bonus that the two entrance gates to the lane that leads to the farm get padlocked at night, and an additional gate on the farm gets padlocked, plus there are alarm systems everywhere here due to all the machinery. And all paddocks will be wooden stakes with electric tape. Thanks so much, I may be in touch!
 
Sounds too good an offer to turn down!! Go for it!

If you want to make a proffit you either need to do absoultely begger all to manage the place (which leads to all kinds of problems) or you need to manage it really well and offer various services and concentrate on full / part livery... (perhaps offering grass livery as a little side earner with the indoor school as an added bonus to the normal grass livery scenario)

When planning I would ensure you have ample storage, parking, security and well draining stables... with plenty of space in the walkways if you're going for an american barn...
 
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