A saddle that fits... how hard is it?!

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chestnuttyy

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Posted a couple of times about struggling to find a saddle to fit my TB. To make matters worse we seem to have a lack of decent saddlers round us and the one I did manage to book 2 months ago has just cancelled (charming). I'm hopefully trying a Heather Moffett Vogue saddle later this month, which I'm really looking forward to, but I wondered if anyone had any other brands of saddle that might suit my boy?

He's currently in an Ideal VSD (17") which has been padded out with a Prolite multi riser as my horse has built up more muscle on the left in comparison to the right. Saddle doesn't really fit him, throws me right back into the cantle, resulting in pressure at the rear of the saddle, crappy position and an unhappy horse. Please note I've seen 3 saddlers and this is the best they've come up with :(.

Horse is short backed, 15.3 TB, wonky and changes shape regularly! Long wither but not crazily high

(please excuse the fat tummy - work is being done to change this!!)

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No suggestions from me sorry, but I share your frustration!

Had a saddle fitter out to my husbands horse recently, and I lost count of the number we tried on him. Eventually settled on an Optimum, after being allowed to try it for a week.
Got to go through it all again today, to try and find something to fit my little round pony - fingers crossed!

Good Luck in your search.
 
I don't know what is going on with saddle fitting - are we breeding a generation of strangely shaped horses? Up until my current horse I always just chucked on whatever we had that was the correct tree shape - wide, medium or narrow - and never had a problem. Caspar is a WB x TB and I had an extra wide Sturgess on him until he lost weight and it was a bit too close to his withers for comfort - but every saddle until then had rolled, and sat on top rather than round him. I broke and rode away at least 5 of our home bred young stock with just a couple of not very special saddles, but he was a struggle to fit (and still is lol). Apart from the rolling, he has a wide spine/ligaments and needs a wider than normal gullet, and yours looks similar to me.
Good luck with your search, I can't suggest a make unless you are prepared to take out a second mortgage and have a Schleese made to fit you both.
 
I could have written this myself ! I've now got an extra back strap on the left hand side to pull the saddle over and altered padding to compensate after consulting the saddle fitter .... And this bloody saddle was a made to measure grrrrrr ... Not made the slightest difference unless its to make him sore. Trouble is if your horse has uneven musculature, you will lean to the side that dips and exacerbate the problem, not knowing you're doing it! I'm wondering whether this is because there might be an underlying problem ..... But I've had vet out and she's confirmed there's no lameness, just a sore back ....
I feel your frustration!
 
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Wasn't there a study that linked saddles slipping to hind leg lameness?

Sorry I can't remember the Vet that did it for sure... possibly Sue Dyson?

I'm another one who's had bad experiences with saddle fitters. The main problem I came across was them trying to fit saddles that were too narrow. I went through pretty much every fitter in the area before I found one that could actually fit a saddle properly.
 
Try a saddle with "Owen" panels, which are in effect,the real old fashioned, sit-behind-the shoulders which all saddles used to be, until they were being made with full leather panels.

Sometimes horses are not straight, they are not born straight, neither are we. Riders sit more heavily on one seat bone than the other, and are more flexible one way than the other. In the end we can only do our best.
 
I have my first master saddler visit on Saturday, very excited to be able to (hopefully) get my boy a perfect fit.

By the way OP I'm very jealous of that horses belly, lol :o
 
I don't understand how it's this difficult to find saddles that fit our horses!

I'm still thinking that the treeless route may be the best option long term, but I'm going to have to close my eyes when I hand the cash over...

Just SO frustrating, all I want is for my horse (and me!) to be comfortable, I'm paranoid about hurting his back in some way now :(
 
chestnuttyy said:
I don't understand how it's this difficult to find saddles that fit our horses!

I'm still thinking that the treeless route may be the best option long term, but I'm going to have to close my eyes when I hand the cash over...

Just SO frustrating, all I want is for my horse (and me!) to be comfortable, I'm paranoid about hurting his back in some way now :(
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No you wont new HM Flexee is £400 and the leather version when available will be around £750. Solution and HM Phoenix are often advertised second hand for around £500-800
 
webble said:
No you wont new HM Flexee is £400 and the leather version when available will be around £750. Solution and HM Phoenix are often advertised second hand for around £500-800
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I've been in touch with Heather Moffett and she said the Vogue would be a lot better for my horse. We're going to try the Flexee as well, so I'll keep my fingers crossed that one is ok!! Would probably be worth waiting for the leather version.. I really don't like synthetic saddles!
 
Where are you based? Someone on here may be able to suggest someone?

You could consider treeless?

Or how about someone like Heritage saddlery near Manchester who will do a saddle for your horse to your own template?
 
I get alarmed when I see treeless being advocated as any kind of guarantee that horse will have a perfect fit & no discomfort.
I have a horse who is very hard to fit a saddle to and his treeless - which we used the back him, made him very sore.
Ideal will also work off a template, so if you were to get a saddler to take a template and send it to ideal with your saddle they could probably adjust your existing saddle.
 
After two saddle fitters telling me my saddle was too wide when I knew it was not I got Lavinia Mitchell out and she told me it was too narrow and had caused muscle damage which I had suspected but didnt know how to solve it, I have one of her dressage saddles used with a shim numnah and prolite and my horse has totally changed shape for the better, hollows are now filling with muscle and he goes amazing in it, would never use anyone else now for saddle fitting, have a look on her website.
 
I have my tb in a Harry dabbs made especially for tbs and can't rate it enough. Had to have it widened as she had changed shape completely as able to work lovely in the saddle and has muscled up in all the right places
 
Have you looked at the thorowgood high wither saddles? Had a horse a similar shape to yours and that was the best by far. You could put a wider gullet in it and prolite until the muscle is more built up?
 
siennamum said:
I get alarmed when I see treeless being advocated as any kind of guarantee that horse will have a perfect fit & no discomfort.
I have a horse who is very hard to fit a saddle to and his treeless - which we used the back him, made him very sore.
Ideal will also work off a template, so if you were to get a saddler to take a template and send it to ideal with your saddle they could probably adjust your existing saddle.
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Oh not every treeless will fit every horse but there is just much more adjustability , I can't get my head around tree'd saddles anymore
 
RachelBristol said:
Your horse has a fairly straight shoulder, so dont go too forward cut at all, because it wont work on him :/
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Thanks, this is why I went for the Ideal VSD - but it's just all wrong for him. Will certainly go for a straighter cut saddle this next time. Biggest issue with the Ideal is it's basically sitting downhill, the frotn had to be padded out with the Prolite and the back is lower than ever now.

I have had templates taken of him by the last saddler and have sent these to Heather Moffett for her opinion. I'm reluctant to send to Ideal as the saddle he has fits badly and that's an Ideal.

Tried the Thorowgood and the tree is too curved. His back is actually very flat behind the wither so anything with any curve to the tree just sticks up at the back!

Thanks for all your advice - not heard of Harry Dabbs so will have a look at those. :)
 
Pinkvboots said:
After two saddle fitters telling me my saddle was too wide when I knew it was not I got Lavinia Mitchell out and she told me it was too narrow and had caused muscle damage which I had suspected but didnt know how to solve it, I have one of her dressage saddles used with a shim numnah and prolite and my horse has totally changed shape for the better, hollows are now filling with muscle and he goes amazing in it, would never use anyone else now for saddle fitting, have a look on her website.
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Thanks, will have a look - I think she covers our area as have heard of her before.
 
chestnuttyy said:
Thanks, this is why I went for the Ideal VSD - but it's just all wrong for him. Will certainly go for a straighter cut saddle this next time. Biggest issue with the Ideal is it's basically sitting downhill, the frotn had to be padded out with the Prolite and the back is lower than ever now.

I have had templates taken of him by the last saddler and have sent these to Heather Moffett for her opinion. I'm reluctant to send to Ideal as the saddle he has fits badly and that's an Ideal.

Tried the Thorowgood and the tree is too curved. His back is actually very flat behind the wither so anything with any curve to the tree just sticks up at the back!

Thanks for all your advice - not heard of Harry Dabbs so will have a look at those. :)
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I have a similar problem with mine, and I ended up spending lots on a rather nice Black Country saddle with additional gussets at the front which ensures that it doesnt do exactly as you say. the extra gussets (they have a fancy name im sure!) pad out the bigger dip by the withers that your horse and mine has.
 
To be strictly accurate, the Heather Moffet saddles are 'soft tree' and not 'treeless' - that is a whole different ball game.looking at your horse, I would guess that a Vogue would suit him very well shape wise as there are options for 'customising' it to his wither shape without compromising on the fit in other areas.depending on where you are, there will possibly be an HM fitter in your area- or Heather will help via photos. Good luck! Buying saddles is about as stressful as buying a horse !!!!
 
Haven't read all the replies, but Lavinia Mitchell trained with Balance International, and they have 'fitters' (they're not called that) all over the country. Look at their website. My horses all love their saddles, including one horse who I was given because he was virtually unrideable.
 
Hi try a Saddle Company Saddle . They do a high wither tree now but you can custom them for no extra cost. So you could have a 16.5 seat with the flaps of a 17.5 ect and the serge is excellent and molds to fit the horses shape .Love mine it's really comfortable for both of us .( Darcy is short backed high withered and wide ) xxx
 
Yeah, I was under the impression Lavinia deals with a lot of balance saddles and also Frank Baines (made by same people I understand). I will be going down a similar route soon with my youngster after, although going ok for a period of time, he completely flipped out with the Wintec Wide saddle I had bought for him (especially because it was wide, adjustable and affordable!). I agree with people when you say why on earth has it got so tricky? Back in the day horses just had A saddle and, other than the occasional re-flocking, that one saddle fit and there were no issues!!!
 
Can I add a suggestion that you get a therapist to look him over before getting the saddle fitter out? Or have you already tried this? You'll never get a decent fit if you've got a bad back to fit to.
You might find that straightening him out will make a world of difference. I had this with a client, from sacrum to withers the mare's spine curved sideways in a gentle ( shape, so the horse couldn't carry her saddle correctly. By the end of the appointment (physiotherapy), her spine was straight. A week later she had some bruising due to carrying the saddle differently to what she was used to (but now in the correct position). Some days off and a saddle-check later, and they haven't looked back.
 
ladyt25 said:
Yeah, I was under the impression Lavinia deals with a lot of balance saddles and also Frank Baines (made by same people I understand). I will be going down a similar route soon with my youngster after, although going ok for a period of time, he completely flipped out with the Wintec Wide saddle I had bought for him (especially because it was wide, adjustable and affordable!). I agree with people when you say why on earth has it got so tricky? Back in the day horses just had A saddle and, other than the occasional re-flocking, that one saddle fit and there were no issues!!!
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Now this is interesting...I LOVE Frank Baines saddles. I was gutted when my old horses FB saddle was definitely too wide for current boy. Interestingly although it was too wide, it did seem to sit really nicely on his back (most instantly stick up!!). Will look into the balance saddles :)
 
Calcyle said:
Can I add a suggestion that you get a therapist to look him over before getting the saddle fitter out? Or have you already tried this? You'll never get a decent fit if you've got a bad back to fit to.
You might find that straightening him out will make a world of difference. I had this with a client, from sacrum to withers the mare's spine curved sideways in a gentle ( shape, so the horse couldn't carry her saddle correctly. By the end of the appointment (physiotherapy), her spine was straight. A week later she had some bruising due to carrying the saddle differently to what she was used to (but now in the correct position). Some days off and a saddle-check later, and they haven't looked back.
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Thanks, I should have mentioned he has already seen a very, VERY good physio. He was sore the first time she saw him and so he was treated. He then had 2 weeks of walking out for 30mins long and low, carrot stretches every day. He was seen again 2 weeks ago and she was delighted with how good his back was :). I'm now very paranoid so we are still doing lots of long and low work and carrot stretches every day :)
 
Frank Baines makes some of the Balance models.

Balance's definition of "too narrow" is very different to everyone else's as they deliberately fit "too wide" and pad the saddle up. Suits some but not all, like everything.

Big shoulder do not always need straight cut saddles by any means, though that is a commonly held belief. You just need the right SHAPED pommel and tree arch, not just the right width, the right depth panel at the front, and a stable enough design that does not end up getting shoved forwards, jamming the points into the shoulder blade. I have fitted many big shouldered horses with GP and even jumjp saddles. Only the odd horse, with prominent scapula and a narrowish wither and back, will have problems, and often a thick half pad DOES do the job and isn't just for the look of it :D

Front wither gussets are a great idea for several fitting issues - horses with high withers, horses with muscle atrophy, very wide flat croup high horses where everything moves forwards...
 
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