A what would you do post

[windand rain]

I have owned him since he was 4 weeks old he was always aggressive he has been managed to keep him happy in himself all his life. He is not a flight animal he is a fighter. Over the years he has had all sorts of checks etc. He hates humans no idea why but would guess its an inherited temperament issue. He was happy in his herd always the boss but it didn't matter as he only had to twitch an ear to get his way with them. He won't tolerate a vet near him doesn't respond well to sedatives as he reacts badly to feeling out of control. Generally speaking he has only ever known love and care and is fine in fact perfect to handle once caught. He is easy to catch, he is happiest working but will only tolerate a few people riding him he is like a rodeo horse if he doesn't like you. He was a companion and driving pony so had his job. He has recently lost weight so was on ad lib hay but even stuffed full his temperament didn't improve. So not hungry or hangries. He only survived to this age because I love him and repeatedly gave him another chance. The past few weeks he has got a lot worse and today he just turned on kitten and drove her through the fence. I know I am not in the best place so will give it a few weeks then call time. It has been coming for a long time he is happy on his own next to the others he has all the grass and food he can eat as the pen is about 1/3 of an acre of rested grass. I think the risks are too great for all the little ones as although they won't go near him they love playing in the other paddocks
. There are 4 of them aged between 5 and 7 so of an age now where running about is the best fun.

 

[blitznbobs]

Maybe a little bit blunt but if he was mine he wouldn’t have had 18 years. He sounds very dangerous, just imagine if he hurt someone’s child… you know what is the right thing to do…

 

[Errin Paddywack]

A friend's much loved homebred stallion who had been a delight all his life became grumpy in his teens and one day when she was bringing him in grabbed her arm and lifted her. He literally tore a huge chunk out of the muscle. He was put down the next day, verdict was a brain tumour. Could be something similar with your boy, that or pain somewhere.

 

[babymare]

You have given him 18 wonderful years but now you need to think of the future and safety of those around you. My support is here for you

 

[twiggy2]

I wonder what is driving the increased aggression? He doesn't sound any happier than you with the situation.
I would PTS, he is not now able to live in the company of other horses due to his aggression so that would be decision made for me.

 

[Deleted member 163966]

He sounds like a very unhappy horse, for some reason, and, at his age, I'm sure you would have found some clue to his behaviour by now. It would be kinder to let him go peacefully now than let him get worse and potentially hurt someone further. No condemnation from me - it's the right decision.

 

[paddy555]

I am in a minority of one. I would be unable to PTS a healthy horse for my own convenience. If I was going to do it because I believed/wanted to make myself think it was kinder then I would need vet input to confirm the horse did indeed have a tumour/was in pain from lameness or whatever.

I have taken in a fair number of rescues over the years. Some hated people, some other horses and many if they had had a thread on here would have been long dead.
Not all horses like people, some hate them for various reasons and not all horses like or even tolerate other horses. There are some that don't like horse company.
If one horse shoved another through a fence I would be looking at the dynamic of the situation as to why that had now happened. It certainly wouldn't be a hanging offence. I would change the management and monitor to find the best management for him.
I have one similar to this. He is older but very healthy. I manage him in such as way that he has suitable company, doesn't get too close to others he could and most likely would damage, and accept that for some reason he is never going to like people very much. He is not a very rewarding horse to keep but PTS no way,

 

[splashgirl45]

Paddy555, this horse has now changed to even worse behaviour than before, OP has looked after him for 18 years, has had vet input over that time , he has now attacked a horse who he previously got on with so is now in solitary confinement , she is hardly rushing to PTS ..but safety of other horses and people is important especially as some of them are children

 

[ArklePig]

He doesn't sound healthy or happy and there are worse things could happen to a horse than lights out and a bucket of carrots. You've been very committed and kind to him, I think it's time you were all released from the situation.

 

[SusieT]

I appreciate he has had 'various check's . I wonder has he had any dental checks (proper- under sedation - a good equine vet should be able to help you work a protocol that works) since losing weight? 1/3 of an acre would be far too small for some of my dominant personalities to be safe with a companion - they need around 2 acres to be content and not feel like pushing the rest into/around the fences or fence hop. Have you tried a large field turnout or retirement livery?

 

[Tiddlypom]

W&R, you have gone above and beyond for many years for this dangerous pony. You are no longer young, he has previous form for seriously injuring you, it is well time to call it a day.

There are always those who pop up on these threads trying to guilt trip the owner into thinking that they are doing it for their own convenience, or haven't tried hard enough or spent enough on vet investigations.

You have been coping with this little tyrant for 18 YEARS. He is not happy, you are not happy. Definitely time to call time.

Btw I seem to collect happy pasture ornaments, but the important thing is that they are indeed happy. Once they can no longer be kept happy, it is time for them to go.

 

[The Xmas Furry]

I am in a minority of one. I would be unable to PTS a healthy horse for my own convenience. If I was going to do it because I believed/wanted to make myself think it was kinder then I would need vet input to confirm the horse did indeed have a tumour/was in pain from lameness or whatever.

I have taken in a fair number of rescues over the years. Some hated people, some other horses and many if they had had a thread on here would have been long dead.
Not all horses like people, some hate them for various reasons and not all horses like or even tolerate other horses. There are some that don't like horse company.
If one horse shoved another through a fence I would be looking at the dynamic of the situation as to why that had now happened. It certainly wouldn't be a hanging offence. I would change the management and monitor to find the best management for him.
I have one similar to this. He is older but very healthy. I manage him in such as way that he has suitable company, doesn't get too close to others he could and most likely would damage, and accept that for some reason he is never going to like people very much. He is not a very rewarding horse to keep but PTS no way,

I this instance, I read it not as you put it 'convenience' but safety. Human safety.

W&R, go with your conscience, as I've said previously to others, if you got as far as asking the question, then your mind is already there xx

 

[paddy555]

There are always those who pop up on these threads trying to guilt trip the owner into thinking that they are doing it for their own convenience, or haven't tried hard enough or spent enough on vet investigations.

I replied to a thread that asked what would you do. I answered and that is precisely what I am doing with one of mine. I am not guilt tripping anyone. Anyone is free to have a horse PTS at any time. They don't need permission from anyone on here. If you ask a question then you are always going to get different opinions. This is a forum with many different opinions.

If I was going to do it because I believed/wanted to make myself think it was kinder then I would need vet input to confirm the horse did indeed have a tumour/was in pain from lameness or whatever.

I didn't suggest that OP haven't spent enough on vet investigations. I simply commented on the terms that I would PTS on welfare ie health grounds.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I replied to a thread that asked what would you do. I answered and that is precisely what I am doing with one of mine. I am not guilt tripping anyone. Anyone is free to have a horse PTS at any time. They don't need permission from anyone on here. If you ask a question then you are always going to get different opinions. This is a forum with many different opinions.



I didn't suggest that OP haven't spent enough on vet investigations. I simply commented on the terms that I would PTS on welfare ie health grounds.

But this isn't a rescue pony, this is one that OP has known since he was 4 weeks old, he has always been challenging towards humans and won't cooperate with the vet. OP has managed him *for 18 yrs* with equine companions which he got on well with. Now his behaviour towards his companions has changed and he has had to be confined to 1/3 acre on his own to avoid injury to other equines and humans. The ponyhas recently lost weight for no obvious reason. How are you going to sedate this pony for a vet/dentist to examine him? Dart gun?

 

[Most Curious]

Don't blame the horse.

Its NEVER the horses fault !

 

[wills_91]

For those suggesting additional physical exams - go back and read the full thread. OP has clearly stated the horse has always been difficult and does not cope with vets etc. He's 18 & had by the sounds of it a very good life.

 

[AmyMay]

Don't blame the horse.

It NEVER the horses fault !

Some, quite frankly, are nasty pieces of work. Regardless of the best upbringing.

 

[SatansLittleHelper]

W&R, do what you feel is right in your heart. You know when enough is enough. It's not easy x

 

[The Xmas Furry]

Don't blame the horse.

Its NEVER the horses fault !

Thank you for your input, anything actually constructive to add?

 

[paddy555]

But this isn't a rescue pony, this is one that OP has known since he was 4 weeks old, he has always been challenging towards humans and won't cooperate with the vet. OP has managed him *for 18 yrs* with equine companions which he got on well with. Now his behaviour towards his companions has changed and he has had to be confined to 1/3 acre on his own to avoid injury to other equines and humans. The ponyhas recently lost weight for no obvious reason. How are you going to sedate this pony for a vet/dentist to examine him? Dart gun?

I'm not sure of the relevance of a rescue pony is. 16 hands of ill treated rescue isn't particularly easy.

Also not sure why you are arguing with me. I simply gave my opinion. If you disagree then fine. The pony has gone for another pony which does happen. Why, has the loss of Willow caused a problem, has something else caused a problem. I have no idea but they are things I would be looking at before PTS. He seems to always have not had a very good attitude towards people. I can see OP is upset having lost another horse.

Having dealt with a few that are difficult with a vet there is usually a way. I don't know this pony but if I had one that could have a headcollar on then probably twitch to get into the vein to sedate. We do that with my worst one who is nearly 16 hands. He is not a rescue just an awkward and aggressive b*ugger to sedate. That saves the vet getting hurt.

 

[FestiveG]

We know so little about subtle human brain damage, that we know next to nothing about it in horses. Given that this animal has been "odd " since birth, it is possible, imo probable, that he had some brain insult at birth, which had led to "personality " damage.

 

[FireCracker238]

Didn't OP say horse doesn't like being sedated as he feels outta control?

N.B. Maybe I misinterpreted

 

[Velcrobum]

W&R You have as you said given him chance after chance. 18 years of love care and second chances is remarkable I only managed 8 before I PTS my difficult horse who was becoming dangerous. I applaude you for giving him so much care but as others have said it is probably his time now that he is unhappy in his herd.

 

[PipsqueakXy22]

I am in a minority of one. I would be unable to PTS a healthy horse for my own convenience. If I was going to do it because I believed/wanted to make myself think it was kinder then I would need vet input to confirm the horse did indeed have a tumour/was in pain from lameness or whatever.

this horse does not sound healthy though, he is an already aggressive horse getting worse, and usually they don’t get worse for no reason. I don’t think many people would have the money to spend thousands on an already older companion horse to find out the root of the problem, and most likely this is just delaying the inevitable. Of course you can have an opinion but I think your insinuation that it is for convenience, when this lady has given this horse 18 years with multiple chances, is what is rubbing people the wrong way. Sometimes as an owner you know your horse better than your vet and sounds like OPs gut is telling her its time.

 

[FinnishLapphund]

...
•He has always been the one you could put in with anyone. Never thought he would go for another horse
•aggressive to humans since being a newborn foal
•He has bitten and barged his way to a few human injuries including badly breaking my leg
•He is not a flight animal he is a fighter
•He won't tolerate a vet near him, doesn't respond well to sedatives as he reacts badly to feeling out of control
...

To me the above says it all. Whatever it is that is going on, it isn't worth the risk of even more humans getting injured by this horse.

Besides, he's had 18 happy years on his own terms. It really doesn't sound in his best interest, to force him to have to endure veterinary tests which would include situations which he would view as having to fight for his life, only to most likely find out that his aggression is caused by something untreatable as a birth defect, and still have to euthanise him.

 

[paddy555]

this horse does not sound healthy though, he is an already aggressive horse getting worse, and usually they don’t get worse for no reason. I don’t think many people would have the money to spend thousands on an already older companion horse to find out the root of the problem, and most likely this is just delaying the inevitable. Of course you can have an opinion but I think your insinuation that it is for convenience, when this lady has given this horse 18 years with multiple chances, is what is rubbing people the wrong way. Sometimes as an owner you know your horse better than your vet and sounds like OPs gut is telling her its time.

they could however get worse because they are in pain. There is nothing in the notes to suggest a dental check recently. Tooth pain is one example that can make a horse very miserable and in a difficult horse aggressive and also cause weight loss. I hardly think basic checks along those lines will cost thousands. They may give an answer and a definite cause of the worsening aggression which could either be resolved or leave no doubt as to what to do.

I'm sorry you don't like my insinuation of convenience. For my part it doesn't sit very well with me simply to PTS without seeing if something could be done.

 

[ycbm]

they could however get worse because they are in pain. There is nothing in the notes to suggest a dental check recently. Tooth pain is one example that can make a horse very miserable and in a difficult horse aggressive and also cause weight loss. I hardly think basic checks along those lines will cost thousands. They may give an answer and a definite cause of the worsening aggression which could either be resolved or leave no doubt as to what to do.

I'm sorry you don't like my insinuation of convenience. For my part it doesn't sit very well with me simply to PTS without seeing if something could be done.

Did you forget to read the bit where it says the horse has disliked humans from birth and hates being handled by vets and being out of control. How would you propose to rasp this pony's teeth? Why would it be better to force him to ensure that than to be quietly PTS?

He's not dreaming of next Christmas and what might be in his stocking. There are far worse fates for a fundamentally unhappy horse than PTS.
.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

I'm not sure of the relevance of a rescue pony is. 16 hands of ill treated rescue isn't particularly easy.

Also not sure why you are arguing with me. I simply gave my opinion. If you disagree then fine. The pony has gone for another pony which does happen. Why, has the loss of Willow caused a problem, has something else caused a problem. I have no idea but they are things I would be looking at before PTS. He seems to always have not had a very good attitude towards people. I can see OP is upset having lost another horse.

Having dealt with a few that are difficult with a vet there is usually a way. I don't know this pony but if I had one that could have a headcollar on then probably twitch to get into the vein to sedate. We do that with my worst one who is nearly 16 hands. He is not a rescue just an awkward and aggressive b*ugger to sedate. That saves the vet getting hurt.

Willow was OP's dog, I doubt the pony has even noticed that she is no longer around

 

[ycbm]

Don't blame the horse.

Its NEVER the horses fault !

David, we've had this discussion on another thread,. For heavens sake get a little more experience before you start telling people (ETA especially people struggling with a really difficult problem emotionally) how to manage horses. You've had a few riding lessons as a 52 year old adult, you really aren't in a position to make statements like this.
.

 

[paddy555]

Did you forget to read the bit where it says the horse has disliked humans from birth and hates being handled by vets and being out of control. How would you propose to rasp this pony's teeth? Why would it be better to force him to ensure that than to be quietly PTS.

He's not dreaming of next Christmasc and what might be in his stocking. There are far worse fates for a fundamentally unhappy horse than PTS.
.

I would rasp his teeth by asking the vet to sedate him. If his teeth have never been checked then there is certainly a possibility there could be a problem. Yes IMHO it would be worthwhile to force him to be sedated to check out his teeth and anything else. Would you really PTS a horse just because it dislikes being handled by a vet. Would I PTS a horse because it needs it's teeth rasping, most definitely not.

One of mine hated IV and when he was in horse hospital (he went there with colic) he had to be put in stocks each day so the girls could take his temperature and also to be sedated to be scanned etc.
Just because he hated it should I have PTS?
He has lived another 11 years since then.

He has his teeth regularly rasped, the vet uses a twitch to get the sedative in. He has a perfectly normal and happy life in between his annual tooth exams. He doesn't like the vet handling him to sedate but that is no reason to PTS.

He had a lump under his eye. No choice but for the vet to sedate. (alternative really would have been PTS)

The point is we often have to do things to horses that they may not like. Some they hate however those are for a very short time only. In some case those actions ie a vet sedating a horse or rasping it's teeth may well be the thing that gets if out of the pain causing it's aggression.