absess in foot - farrier or vet?

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NooNoo59

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Pony has absess, poultice for three days but no joy, so who would be more use farrier or vet? Always use vet in the past but can a farrier not do the same thing?
 
Trimmer came out on Thursday and located sore spot on sole and hot spot on coronet band, advised poulticing to draw it out, but he is very sore on it tonight.
 
Farrier everytime.

If I ever have a lame horse I always try to get the farrier in before the vet, if only just to discount a foot problem.

If the farrier can't find anything, then I call the vet.
 
Any large leg or lameness always farrier first!!! Have lost count of the number of horses I have seen that had tendon injury only for it to be a foot abscess!
 
But this is strange to me, a good vet can treat an abscess, [and I would not want anyone other than a good vet doing it,] but you have been using a trimmer, I am not sure that a farrier will want to get involved.

PS. Keep poulticing the entire area.
It might come out thru the cornet band by the sounds of it, I would be asking my vet for advice and a callout asap if the horse is in pain
 
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Farrier for me unless you need some bute. Depends on the vet of course but IME most vets don't open the site enough, it just closes over and you are back to square one with the pus trapped inside.
 
The abcess will only come out of the foot if the sole is parred back to allow the pus to drain, pointless poulticing until this has been done, if the trimmer cant do this you will have to get a vet, I dont think a farrier will just come out to you if he does not normally do your horses.
 
NooNoo59 said:
Trimmer came out on Thursday and located sore spot on sole and hot spot on coronet band, advised poulticing to draw it out, but he is very sore on it tonight.
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It sounds like it's about to bust at the coronet.

I normally call the farrier as my horses are trimmed by him anyway. I have called the Vet when it was possibly not an abscess, but the Vet tends to dig too much at the sole looking for it (horse was no better and it burst at the coronet the following day anyway, only there was now also a huge, sore hole in the sole).
 
Last time my vet was out to an 'abscess' (wasn't an abscess) she told me to wait and get the farrier to dig it out as he was due two days later. Says a lot. She didn't even take the shoe off.

But she was useless, as it turns out.

If I was certain it was an abscess, farrier every time.
 
Pinkvboots said:
The abcess will only come out of the foot if the sole is parred back to allow the pus to drain, pointless poulticing until this has been done, if the trimmer cant do this you will have to get a vet, I dont think a farrier will just come out to you if he does not normally do your horses.
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I'm sorry but this is incorrect in two ways.

One, it will come out of the heel, the coronet or the side of the frog, in that order of likelihood. Two, poulticing the likely exit spot will weaken it and allow it to come out more easily.
 
If they were hopping for more than a couple of days it would be the vet, plus I'd be after bute/antibiotics to help clear it as the bute will help get them walking which will help it to burst quicker.

I'd ask my farrier if they were there but I wouldn't call them out expecting a free consultation!
 
Personally I've always given the farrier a ring if there's a foot problem, on the basis that he's the "expert" on feet and knows my horses' feet; the farrier is legally allowed to "render emergency aid" and I would then take his advice if he felt the situation needed a vet to take a peek and/or prescribe anything.

Farrier first is always my point of call.
 
I was led to believe bute was a 'no-no' for abscesses, as can slow down the tracking of the pus?

Equally a/b's are not usually recommended.....but I can't remember why!!
 
Sidney said:
I was led to believe bute was a 'no-no' for abscesses, as can slow down the tracking of the pus?

Equally a/b's are not usually recommended.....but I can't remember why!!
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A sole abscess is recommended a/bs, as inside the foot itself and risk of infection carrying through blood stream etc - equally any kind of puncture abscess. An abscess between the hoof and white line that doesn't break the dermis won't be affected by antibiotics as outside the 'skin' layer, and equally bruise abscesses where there is no break in the dermis.

There is debate about bute - some people claim it causes the abscess to 'reabsorb', causing chronic abscess, but personally I don't understand how that works as a biological mechanism. Many vets do prescribe bute, although some prefer to prescribe aspirin.

Interestingly there is a lot of debate also about the use of epsom salts (some people claim the salts dry and clog the exit point before they completely drain an abscess) and a lot of controversy about whether digging an abscess out is good practice (any possible break in the dermis can introduce more infection, so many vets prescribe purely poulticing to soften the hoof wall to allow abscess draining).
 
MrsD123 said:
But this is strange to me, a good vet can treat an abscess, [and I would not want anyone other than a good vet doing it,] but you have been using a trimmer, I am not sure that a farrier will want to get involved.
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Aye. Barry had an abscess the other week and I had the vet out (never had to deal with an abscess before, was suspicious that that was what it was but wasn't 100% certain).

No offence to the farrier, but he would have been no use- Barry had to be sedated as he's fidgety with his back feet with the farrier anyway, let alone when he was in pain.
 
cptrayes said:
I'm sorry but this is incorrect in two ways.

One, it will come out of the heel, the coronet or the side of the frog, in that order of likelihood. Two, poulticing the likely exit spot will weaken it and allow it to come out more easily.
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^^^this^^^ exactly what happened with my girl earlier this year. Abscess burst out through bulb of her heal.
 
khalswitz said:
A sole abscess is recommended a/bs, as inside the foot itself and risk of infection carrying through blood stream etc - equally any kind of puncture abscess. An abscess between the hoof and white line that doesn't break the dermis won't be affected by antibiotics as outside the 'skin' layer, and equally bruise abscesses where there is no break in the dermis.

There is debate about bute - some people claim it causes the abscess to 'reabsorb', causing chronic abscess, but personally I don't understand how that works as a biological mechanism. Many vets do prescribe bute, although some prefer to prescribe aspirin.

Interestingly there is a lot of debate also about the use of epsom salts (some people claim the salts dry and clog the exit point before they completely drain an abscess) and a lot of controversy about whether digging an abscess out is good practice (any possible break in the dermis can introduce more infection, so many vets prescribe purely poulticing to soften the hoof wall to allow abscess draining).
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My understanding is that because abscesses inside the foot encapSulate that antibiotics for any non draining for abscess which has not infected the leg are contra indicated because they can cause the abscess to become occult and take much longer to resolve????

My understanding of Bute is that abscesses are corrosive and eat their way out. This requires an inflammatory response. Bute suppresses the inflammation, thus reducing the ability of the abscess to corrode an exit route.

Please correct me if that is wrong.
 
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I implore all owners to please remember that a farrier is not aloud to diagnose, make a prognosis, or treat unless referred by a vet.
As a farrier/trimmer it is something I have adhered to, not to do so can (and has) lead to the farriers being reprimanded.
Before this starts a load of threads saying things like… but a farrier knows more about the foot…my vet always cuts too much away… my vet charges more!!!
The fact is that the vet is the only one who (unless in an emergency) can do any of the above or instruct someone to do so.
I do on the other hand get loads of calls from owners to attend a horse and my first question is to get the vets number, I will then ask if they mind me attending, and I can honestly say that 99% of vets are quite willing.
This all may sound a bit pedantic but if anything should go wrong the horse is going to suffer and the treatment can often take much longer.
 
cptrayes said:
My understanding is that because abscesses inside the foot encapSulate that antibiotics for any non draining for abscess which has not infected the leg are contra indicated because they can cause the abscess to become occult and take much longer to resolve????

My understanding of Bute is that abscesses are corrosive and eat their way out. This requires an inflammatory response. Bute suppresses the inflammation, thus reducing the ability of the abscess to corrode an exit route.

Please correct me if that is wrong.
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Haven't heard that theory re a/bs before. I know that I was told that the use of a/bs in abscesses depending on whether it was a sterile or non-sterile abscess - ie whether the abscess has broken the dermal layer. A deep abscess, usually one from a genuine puncture would rather than a farriers bail too close to the white line as is a common cause, would be prescribed a/bs as any subcutaneous bacterial infection would - you don't want that ending up in the bloodstream. However that is your worst variant abscess and not your typical one - and for your typical sub hoof wall abscess that hasn't technically broken the 'skin' a/bs won't make a jot of difference as they won't be able to cross the dermal skin layer.

I've only dealt once with a proper puncture abscess, and a/bs and painkiller were given - it was also xrayed to see whether the abscess had affected the pedal bone as that can be a complication. Thankfully it wasn't so in that case, but it took a long time to recover. They were also not recommended to use wet poultices due to the abscess being in the foot itself rather than just under the hoof wall.

Re bute, it's not something I've ever been explicitly told the answer to - some vets prescribe it happily, others think you shouldn't. However the fact that some vets prescribe aspirin instead is what intrigues me. Both are NSAIDs that act as COX enzyme inhibitors, aspirin being unusual in that it irreversibly binds to COX. Why choose aspirin over bute if you don't want to reduce inflammation? Surely then you wouldn't administer an NSAID at all? I understand the theory that reducing iflammation reduces exudate pressure therefore slows down tracking, but why then the point about giving aspirin instead? Aspirin would surely slow this to a greater degree. It makes me query the theory that the clinical response is to give a different NSAID...

Il admit I did google this, and the most common result was people asking whether they should give the bute prescribed by their vet as the Internet had told them it would make it worse... So in the absence of a definitive answer I would go with the opinion of the practising vet. Personally, I would give bute unless vet specifically said oterwise, especially if it were a sterile zone abscess, as I think not giving painkillers when in that extreme pain is cruel, especially when I don't really understand the reasoning, making me query whether the reason given is te real reason some recommend aspirin instead...
 
khalswitz said:
Haven't heard that theory re a/bs before. I know that I was told that the use of a/bs in abscesses depending on whether it was a sterile or non-sterile abscess - ie whether the abscess has broken the dermal layer. A deep abscess, usually one from a genuine puncture would rather than a farriers bail too close to the white line as is a common cause, would be prescribed a/bs as any subcutaneous bacterial infection would - you don't want that ending up in the bloodstream. However that is your worst variant abscess and not your typical one - and for your typical sub hoof wall abscess that hasn't technically broken the 'skin' a/bs won't make a jot of difference as they won't be able to cross the dermal skin layer.

I've only dealt once with a proper puncture abscess, and a/bs and painkiller were given - it was also xrayed to see whether the abscess had affected the pedal bone as that can be a complication. Thankfully it wasn't so in that case, but it took a long time to recover. They were also not recommended to use wet poultices due to the abscess being in the foot itself rather than just under the hoof wall.

Re bute, it's not something I've ever been explicitly told the answer to - some vets prescribe it happily, others think you shouldn't. However the fact that some vets prescribe aspirin instead is what intrigues me. Both are NSAIDs that act as COX enzyme inhibitors, aspirin being unusual in that it irreversibly binds to COX. Why choose aspirin over bute if you don't want to reduce inflammation? Surely then you wouldn't administer an NSAID at all? I understand the theory that reducing iflammation reduces exudate pressure therefore slows down tracking, but why then the point about giving aspirin instead? Aspirin would surely slow this to a greater degree. It makes me query the theory that the clinical response is to give a different NSAID...

Il admit I did google this, and the most common result was people asking whether they should give the bute prescribed by their vet as the Internet had told them it would make it worse... So in the absence of a definitive answer I would go with the opinion of the practising vet. Personally, I would give bute unless vet specifically said oterwise, especially if it were a sterile zone abscess, as I think not giving painkillers when in that extreme pain is cruel, especially when I don't really understand the reasoning, making me query whether the reason given is te real reason some recommend aspirin instead...
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Interesting thanks :) the alien thing in particular is confusing.

I have just finished dealing with a picture wound abscess. The resulting hole can now be plugged with an entire cotton wool ball!! I never poulticed it, I flushed it daily with hydrogen peroxide and plugged it with cotton wool and then soaked that with hydrogen peroxide. On a Saturday I told him the vet would be coming to xray it on Monday to make sure the pedal bone was ok, he was sound on Sunday :D

Now my only problem is that I know that it was a puncture from something very small and very sharp, because he was hopping lame for no apparent reason for just ten minutes when he came in two weeks before it blew back out of the entry point - which had been invisible on the day. And whatever it was is out there somewhere in twelve acres and could do it again at any time :(
 
One, it will come out of the heel, the coronet or the side of the frog, in that order of likelihood. Two, poulticing the likely exit spot will weaken it and allow it to come out more easily.
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and three if you leave it be without farrier or vet intervention it will burst as it is supposed to, leaving the least damage in it's wake. My advice would be to leave, turn out as usual and wait. If you wait for longer than a week, and horse is no better, then vet.
 
cptrayes said:
Interesting thanks :) the alien thing in particular is confusing.

I have just finished dealing with a picture wound abscess. The resulting hole can now be plugged with an entire cotton wool ball!! I never poulticed it, I flushed it daily with hydrogen peroxide and plugged it with cotton wool and then soaked that with hydrogen peroxide. On a Saturday I told him the vet would be coming to xray it on Monday to make sure the pedal bone was ok, he was sound on Sunday :D

Now my only problem is that I know that it was a puncture from something very small and very sharp, because he was hopping lame for no apparent reason for just ten minutes when he came in two weeks before it blew back out of the entry point - which had been invisible on the day. And whatever it was is out there somewhere in twelve acres and could do it again at any time :(
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Alien = aspirin.

Picture = puncture

:D
 
khalswitz said:
Alien did stump me, picture I guessed but alien and me imaging all sorts of weird things... ouch re the abscess though, sounds nasty!
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Worst one I've seen in a very long time :( The hole is astonishing and it was never cut out, it's just what it did for itself. How he wasn't crippled lame with it I'll never know, he's such a trooper. I found it with the hoof pick when he was only limping a little bit as if he had bruised it. He should by rights have been on three legs. I was very lucky that whatever he trod on punctured near the toe and not under the pedal bone. He's been as sound as a bell for three weeks now but I can still get an entire cotton wool ball in the hole.
 
cptrayes said:
Worst one I've seen in a very long time :( The hole is astonishing and it was never cut out, it's just what it did for itself. How he wasn't crippled lame with it I'll never know, he's such a trooper. I found it with the hoof pick when he was only limping a little bit as if he had bruised it. He should by rights have been on three legs. I was very lucky that whatever he trod on punctured near the toe and not under the pedal bone. He's been as sound as a bell for three weeks now but I can still get an entire cotton wool ball in the hole.
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Poor lad :( The one I saw had a huuuge hole too , it was dug out but not hugely so as vets were worried about further infection. His was scarily close to pedal bone but thankfully didn't compromise it! He was lame for about four weeks so your boy really was a trooper!!
 
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