Absolutely gutted

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LauraWinter

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My boy went in for his arthroscopies today (suspected OCD) and I was really hoping that he would have the usual problem- that is some floating bits of bone which were causing his lameness, could be removed and would have a good prognosis. However, it turns out there were no floating bits just cartilage damage/ thickening and soft bits in some places (I was in a bit of a daze when the vet rang so am struggling to remember exactly what he said) in two joints in both stifles, which were inoperable because had he removed the damagd bits what they would of been replaced with would have been no better aparently. So basically, there was nothing they could do surgically and he is going to be on a course of cartrophen injections with a long time off work and a fingers crossed that he becomes sound. He said prognosis for return to full work is 'guarded'
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I am absolutely devastated. I saved up and borrowed to buy him back in May and I do have a mare aswell who I am just bringing back into work but she is just a hack really- I bought my boy after she gave me back my confidence after losing it for a while so that I could do a bit more- schooling, jumping, competing etc. He is only 6 and there is no way on this earth that I could get another horse. I keep them both on livery and it looks like I am resigned to hacking forever (the vet says his stifles will always be weak even if he does come sound and so the harder he works the more likely he will go lame again)

I am so upset
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Does anybody have a horse with the same problem?? What are our experiences? The vet did say on the plus side the damage is in the lower range- it goes from 1-4 apparently with 4 being the worsta and he is a 1-2
 
I'm so sorry to hear this. I know what you are going through. My mare has been lame for 7 weeks now
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I am unsure what the outcome will be, so I know exactly how you feel.
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*hugs*
 
greygates- not hugely lame but definitely lame, if you know what I mean! He has to be box rested for a while and he has had most of the summer off just turned away anyway as we had strangles- 3 months in total and I only rode him for about 3 weeks when he went lame. This must of been underlying before he was turned away so I guess it would of been sorted then if that was going to work....

tikino, Winter is fine thanks I am just about to start hacking her out again then was going to find a sharer for her as she doesnt really do much other than hacking and I wanted to do more
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Filly was sold last month and has a lovely new home in Scotland!
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Sorry to hear that Madam_Max, the wost thing is not knowing isnt it? Expending all that hope and energy in the knowledge that it might be a hopeless situation and you wont find that out for months
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I wont be able to afford another horse for years by which time we will probably want to start a family so I cant help but feel thats my riding career over for a very long time- by then I will only be able to/want to/be competent enough to hack anyway!
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Sorry to hear your news. I went through something similar with a 6 year old I had (only had him for 6 months before went lame - had a form of wobblers) and I was absolutely devastated. It's because you had lots of hopes and dreams of a certain future which may now not happen - its like a bereavement (and before anyone comments I have lost both my parents when I was young so know what loss is like).

If you haven't already and you are insured I would ask for a referral to an expert on OCD for their opinion. My friends horse had the op and although he wouldn't make a top dressage horse he hads gone on to find a lovely home doing hacking and lower-level stuff. Even if your horse isn't suitable to compete in the future it doesn't mean he can't go on to lead a good life with someone who wants to just hack.

My current horse was diagnosed with SI strain and his prognosis was "guarded" also but I have competed successfully up to Elementary Unaff and do small hunter trials and sponsored rides - maybe not as good as I hoped when I bought him but way better than the vets predicted.

Try not to think too far ahead - time is a great healer and I reckon a lot of so called right offs go on to do really well. Sorry to ramble on about my own experiences but I just wanted you to know you are not alone and there is hope
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I have just been through this.

I have a 17.3hh which I bought last September. On August 18th he was found hopping lame in the field, which was a total mystery as it was so sudden. He was actually fine in walk but it was so noticeable in trot. He threw a few spanners in the works for us because he lost a shoe on 2nd August so we initially thought he might have developed an abcess from that. Nope. So vet came and noted he had a swollen fetlock (he'd been rested for 3 days at this point) with some slight heat in it. He treated with penicillin for a few days. No improvement at all. My vet didn't want to mess around as, if anything, the lameness got worse, so we were referred to the local equine clinic that day.

Lanky spent 3 days at the clinic having a lameness exam, xrays and nerve blocks. The problem was located to the nearside stifle and when they xrayed the other one, it was found that he had some slight, but less notable, damage there as well. The vet stated that he felt Lanky had gone suddenly lame because although OCD is quite a serious degenerative disease, usually horses who have had it a long time (before they were broken) simply get used to it and it doesn't necessarily cause pain. Lanky had torn the meniscus which is the cartilage between the two bones in the stifle joint. They could also see on the xray that he had some fragments of some kind floating around and that they needing to do arthroscopy quite soon.

On 14th September Lanky went back to Western Counties. From the start I was given a very bleak prognosis, but I went with what my gut told me and what I was advised by my own vet. Now, by bleak, I mean that this 8 year old horse would become nothing more than at best a light hack and may have low level pain ahead of him. On the 15th, the surgeon, Tim, travelled to the clinic from Liphook (he did the surgery because he is an ortho-surgeon and the vets at Western Counties have different specialities). I got a call that afternoon from original clinic vet, saying that Tim had found a lot more damage than expected and I got the usual veterinary jargon and scary stories! I was told he had extensive OCD that had been developing since he was about 18-24 months old, so more than likely caused by incorrect nutrition (he has excellent breeding but none of his full siblings have reached his size!). Loosely linked, he also had arthritis. The offside stifle was, as suspected, not nearly as bad. They removed fragments of bone and quite a bit of damaged cartilage from the nearside stifle (because this was what was causing the lameness). I was given an even bleaker prognosis but the vets there told me it was a case of wait and see, follow instructions and then make decisions in the future. He was happy enough, on pain-reducing medications and did not meet criteria for humane destruction, although at this point I was considering it anyway as I am pretty much an all or nothing, black or white kind of girl.

I am so glad I didn't give up at that hurdle. The op was 11 weeks ago today. He spent 6 weeks on complete box rest after the op (3 weeks before it), then started being walked out in hand. After a couple of weeks of gently increasing walking him out, he started getting fed up and endangering himself and others around him, damaging his stable etc. We made the decision to start putting him in a paddock for 30-60 minutes a day (not a very big paddock though), from about 3 weeks into the walking out regime, mainly because I couldn't risk getting hurt due to being pregnant, but also because I felt he had to take his chance sooner or later and if he was going to have to be PTS, I wanted a happy horse at the end of his life. He should have done another couple of weeks walking out, but was much happier doing as we arranged.

Before the op he could not bear weight on that leg and turning circles was a no-go. When I collected him after his op, he was walking very strangely indeed, bum-high and like a ballerina at the back! When we first started walking him out, 6 weeks after the op, he was stiff but walking out well, turning circles with relative ease. When we turned him out on the tiny paddock, he did struggle at first because in such a small area it became boggy very quickly, but it soon became apparent that he was making real progress. He went out into his normal field with my other horse on Sunday - he is happily trotting, galloping, rearing and bucking (he is a horse and I won't stop him doing that!). To my quite critical eye, he is sound. He will need significant amounts of time to supple up, loosen up and straighten up, and the real work has not yet begun - he will be brought back into work any time from March onwards, but we will see how he goes as I don't want to rush things.

I can't stress what a poor prognosis I was given for this horse, even being told he would never be sound again. I spoke to my very experience normal horse vet about this, telling him I couldn't understand why after such a bleak outlook, being told he'd probably never be sound and that the OCD and arthritis was so bad they could bearly touch some of it, he has come sound so quickly. My vet gave a number of suggestions - young horses have good healing powers and all horses will react differently to the treatments given. My vet himself has had 3 knee arthroscopies (with meniscus damage!) and said the doctors haven't written him off and he is back to playing squash competitively, so why should all horses be written off? I trust this vet's opinion - he's what I call a sensible, old fashioned vet and has all the answers under his hat! He has advised me to keep positive and to not give up as even though he may only ever make a light hack, he is far from written off!

I just wanted to let you know that you can have the worst outlook (the vet at the clinic asked me if I had LOU and if I would consider PTS because horse would never come sound!) and things can still turn around. I am far from stupid and know it is early days yet... slowly slowly catch monkey and all that, but providing he has a good winter, he will be steadily brought back to light work in the Spring.

He has not been given expensive joint injections and these were not recommended as with OCD that is so far gone that arthroscopy can't make a huge difference, they are sort of superfluous. I was advised to use a joint supplement with Glucosomine in it (doesn't have to be an expensive one). He was on bute for a while after the op but is now not on anything.

So all in all, 3 months solid on box rest with the final three weeks of that being walked out in hand. Minimal pain relief only after the op. An economical joint supplement. Understanding, wonderful vets who made sense of all the clinic said to me, for me! And after being told he'd never be ridden again, he is, for now, sound (for NOW).

My farrier has had clients with horses who have had the same op, maybe with a better prognosis, but they have gone on to compete at the same level as they were previously.

Insurer paid out last week after a worrying time where we thought they wouldn't.

Good luck.x
 
LauraWinter, just wanted to give you a virtual hug; know something of what you are going to as I am another whose 6 yo developed problems which escalated; he's now 8 and will only ever be a hack if I am lucky. Don't know anything about your problem but as others had said it might be worth getting him out 24/7 and seeing how he is after a year or so. Its what I'm trying with my horse. Really hope that you get some good news and he recovers well.
 
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greygates- not hugely lame but definitely lame, if you know what I mean! He has to be box rested for a while and he has had most of the summer off just turned away anyway as we had strangles- 3 months in total and I only rode him for about 3 weeks when he went lame. This must of been underlying before he was turned away so I guess it would of been sorted then if that was going to work....

<font color="blue"> If he had cartilage damage, no amount of turning away would bring him sound before an operation to remove damaged tissue. Now he has had the op, if they have removed any damaged cartilage like my surgeon did, being turned away after a period of box rest, should have more effect. He won't show soundness immediately after the op... it will take time, some box rest, being turned away for a while (they say 3-6 months before bringing back to work slowly). </font>


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Thank you so, so much everybody for these last few posts- especially Lanky_Doodle that must have taken you ages to write... I cant tell you how much I appreciate it though, it has made me feel a little more optomistic. It is also Western Counties that my boy went to, they seem really nice there and the surgeon came down from liphook- I think his name was Tony.

I was also asken by the vet who phoned me with the news whether I had LOU (I dont)- which is when it really hit me
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I hope you're right, I really do. I know vets can vary enormously with their judgement on how to put things across to you and I can only hope he is one of the pessemistic ones.

The way I understood it, through the technical terms, is that the actual damage isnt too bad which is why it would have been worse to remove anything than leave it alone, and why cartrophen may help with some of the inflammation, however he said that he couldnt really give me any good news about return to full work as the potential for it to just 'flare up' at ny point is high. I am hoping that my vet will have something more positive to say tomorrow
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Thank you again so much for your post, I cant tell you how much I appreciate hearing your story and I am so pleased for you that your boy may make a recovery after such an awful outlook
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[ QUOTE ]
Thank you so, so much everybody for these last few posts- especially Lanky_Doodle that must have taken you ages to write... I cant tell you how much I appreciate it though, it has made me feel a little more optomistic. It is also Western Counties that my boy went to, they seem really nice there and the surgeon came down from liphook- I think his name was Tony.

<font color="blue"> It was probably Tim, hehe! And if it was then he is fantastic! </font>

I was also asken by the vet who phoned me with the news whether I had LOU (I dont)- which is when it really hit me
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<font color="blue"> Was that Andrew Walker? The vet dealing with Lanky was David Rendall, but he was away during the op week so Andrew Walker dealt with it all. </font>

I hope you're right, I really do. I know vets can vary enormously with their judgement on how to put things across to you and I can only hope he is one of the pessemistic ones.

<font color="blue"> I think they have to be guarded and not give false hope. I can only speak from my own experience. I think some clinics give bleak outlooks to everyone,r egardless of the extent of damage (sceptical, me?) as it sounds like you were told the same as I was by the same clinic, except for some odd reason, my horse's torn and damaged cartilage was removed.
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All you can do is remain positive and be patient. I spent a few weeks just saying over and over that I was going to lose him before I'd even really bonded properly with him, but by God have I bonded with him now! For me, it was a good time as I am pregnant so can't ride him atm anyway.</font>



The way I understood it, through the technical terms, is that the actual damage isnt too bad which is why it would have been worse to remove anything than leave it alone, and why cartrophen may help with some of the inflammation, however he said that he couldnt really give me any good news about return to full work as the potential for it to just 'flare up' at ny point is high. I am hoping that my vet will have something more positive to say tomorrow
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<font color="blue"> That's right - the potential for any damage to reoccur or for it to become worse when returning to full work, is quite high with this particular ailment because of the mechanisms of the joint. My vet HAS said we are going to have to be very very careful with him and the longer we can leave it to bring him back into work, the better his chances are at not going horrendously lame again. It sounds to me like the damage in your horse was not as bad as that in mine as they were talking about completely removing the meniscus in my horse. </font>

Thank you again so much for your post, I cant tell you how much I appreciate hearing your story and I am so pleased for you that your boy may make a recovery after such an awful outlook
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I think the vet I sopke to on the phone was called Simon? I was a referral so I dont have a particular vet there. I seem to have had severe memory loss I cant rememeber half the conversation I think I was in shock as I was expecting to be told there were some chips which had been removed and all would be ok
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As far as I can remember, the only reason he said they didnt remove anything is because what it would be replaced with would be even worse than what was already there- he said its sometimes difficult to decide whether to remove depending on each case but that he definitely came down on the side of not removing...which I guess is a good thing?

He did say something about type/degrees of damage from 1-4 and he was a 1-2 which is the good end of the scale. I just dont know how much to read into any of this
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Yeh I was a referral as well, and I know who Simon is.
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I normally use the Mount Vets in Wellington.

I don't remember a lot of the conversation but was given a write-up by my vet afterwards as well. You can always ask your vet to translate - I had to!
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At the clinic they spoke at 100mph in jargon with no regard to whether I understood!

My boy had to have a lot of his removed because of the extent of the damage, but if you think about it, if the cartilage is totally removed, it leaves bone rubbing on bone and over time that WILL lead to further, probably worse and irreversible, lameness. I think if there's a chance of leaving something, anything, in there, then they would due to the lack of protection removing it leads to. I wasn't given a scale of damage or anything like that!

It would be worth you asking for the veterinary reports and going through them with your vet to help you understand further.
 
I am sorry to hear your news. My old horse had something similar. I was advised to have him pts, but I turned him away for 6 months, then bought him back into work. Through very careful work, and a management system including cortaflex and buting him after very hard work and only jumping on a surface, I had another 4 years with him jumping 1.30's until he broke his leg in the field (ironically), and I had to have him put to sleep. There are PLENTY of competition horses etc with bone spavin, navicular, arthritic changes or some sort of old injury which is managed so the horse can go on having a good life.

All is not lost.

Is your horse insured? If so, can you go down the loss of use route, or have him PTS on vets advice? I know heartbreaking but you have to consider the quality of life of a horse with problems.
 
turn him out for awhile. He's still a baby, joints and bones still changing. I once read a book on horses in the Victoria times do you know they were old at 9 as they were worn-out, because their joints were shot to peices.
 
I also forgot to say last night, that all along I have been told by all my vets and from reading the research I have, that with OCD, the earlier you catch it the better. If young horses are found to have OCD and treated appropriately, they can lead a normal working life for the most part I think (talking very young horses). The older a horse gets, the more extensive damage can become and it gets harder to treat. At 6, you've got a good chance.

With cartilage damage, which is related in part to OCD but is a separate issue, shards of bone or rough edges can cause further damage, or the injury can be caused like any other injury a horse can sustain.
 
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