Acceptable level of lameness in retirement

[Littlebear]

I just wondered how other people about retiring lame horses.
What would be your line for them being able to retire comfortably?
I’ve had some people say as long as walking ok, getting up and down etc that’s fine and others who think it should be very low level in trot to be ok.
If you see a field of retired horses they are usually a bit crocked in one way or another it’s just such a personal and tricky balance to think about.
Is it just personal feeling of how comfortable you think they are?
struggling a little with my thought process on this one x

 

[Red-1]

I believe that horses are very stoic, it is in their nature to be so, so they don't be attacked.

I retired one, he was bang sound and looked OK trotting in the field. Ridden he would stumble, but in the field he looked ready for the show ring. He went when he looked less comfortable.

Another, I wanted to retire. He was sound in walk but very lame in trot, stopped lying down. He had 6 weeks on loads of Bute, didn't bring him sound in trot, was PTS.

 

[ycbm]

I wouldn't retire any lame horse who gets any pain because horses are good at hiding pain and you have no idea how much pain they are in. I'd rather pts early than risk it.

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[oldie48]

I feel they should be sound in walk and able to get up and down easily. I think its OK to give a horse a sachet of bute if they are looking a bit uncomfortable and I wouldn't worry if they needed one a day as long as they looked well, were eating, keeping their weight on etc. I think you can tell a great deal by looking at their eyes and expression. I think many owners know almost instinctively when the time has come and will often make that decision at the end of the summer so the horse doesn't have to go through another winter.

 

[Patterdale]

They’re all different, but generally if they can walk, get up and lie down, and look happy enough then they’re fine.

If they’re in too much pain, they’ll stop eating, lose condition, lose interest. You can tell.

Some people are very trigger happy with euthanising horses, but I think they quite like being alive as long as they’re enjoying life. A crocky leg or 4 doesn’t stop most from being happy in the field.

 

[HashRouge]

I have a 27 year old who was retired about 5 years ago due to arthritis. She started having 1/2 a Danilon a day about 2 years ago and now is up to one sachet a day. Most of the time there is no visible lameness in walk or trot and she is bright and full of beans. Occasionally, she will have a phase where she looks stiff in her hocks. The last time was the heatwave we had a month or so ago - her arthritis seems worse in hot weather than in wet/ cold weather. If the stiffness lasts more than a day, I will up her Danilon to 2 sachets a day, which seems to help. I generally don't have to do that for more than a day or two. I spend a lot of time watching her like a hawk. I don't want to be one of those owners who keep a horse going when it is in pain, but equally she is so bright and seems so contented with her field mate, I want to give her that for as long as I can. If I was seeing consistent, visible lameness in walk or trot I don't think I would keep her going. Maybe very mild lameness in trot would be okay? But I really think they need to be sound in walk and able to get up/ down okay. Mine doesn't seem to lie down much anymore, but she does roll every day and gets up/ down okay when I've seen her.

 

[milliepops]

I have a couple of old ladies that look a bit creaky occasionally, mostly when walking across the steep bank in the field or something similar. In general I am happy with them at the moment, they are obviously older horses but they still trot and canter around happily on the flatter ground, I sometimes see a short step on a turn. Mine are still jumping out of the field and getting up to all kinds of mischief.

Personally I wouldn't choose to keep one going that will only walk and potter around and for myself I would not want to maintain them on bute or other interventions but that's entirely my view for my own horses, and I don't have an issue with other people doing so if it gives the horse a full quality of life.

 

[be positive]

I think by the time they stop eating it is too late, unless the illness/ injury is acute, they are hard wired to eat so will be in a lot of discomfort or pain if they stop taking an interest in food, they may not keep weight on as well once they get older but I would not wait until they stop eating to make the call.

I had my oldie pts 2 months ago, he was bright in his eye, eating plenty of food but not maintaining weight as well as I wanted, he was then a bit weak behind which meant getting up looked a bit too much of an effort so I called the vet rather than wait until the day he could not get up, he spent his last hour stuffing his face on grass, carrots and other goodies and went on a lovely sunny morning still looking bright eyed and happy with life, possibly a few days too early but better than a day too late.

 

[milliepops]

I think by the time they stop eating it is too late, unless the illness/ injury is acute, they are hard wired to eat so will be in a lot of discomfort or pain if they stop taking an interest in food, they may not keep weight on as well once they get older but I would not wait until they stop eating to make the call.

I totally agree with this, and Red's point about prey animals being programmed to avoid showing pain and discomfort.
This is why I have made the decision not to prop mine up with too much in the way of interventions and to keep a close eye on their behaviour and condition. I am choosing quality over quantity of life for mine and when they begin to show that they are not coping with being mainly self sufficient then I will call time.

Yes they probably could carry on a bit longer if they had to but fortunately they will have no idea of the whys and wherefores when the time comes and I'd never forgive myself if I left it too long anyway.

 

[Brownmare]

My retired gelding is probably 2 or 3/10 lame in trot but he generally canters instead and, judging from the amount of time he spends doing it, he is pretty comfortable with it. He also spends a lot of time standing on his hindlegs play boxing with my 3 yr old ? despite the fact that his hock looks like a bag of spanners. I am very careful to observe his behaviour and facial expressions and any change for the worse and he is given Danilon (the recent heatwave was the last time he needed any) but the majority of the time he is clearly happy and enjoying his retirement. If and when that changes he will be PTS without delay.

 

[sport horse]

I think you usually know. If they are thriving - interested in the world, eating, interacting with friends and have a nice shine on their coat and in their eye then they are fine. I am pretty stiff and have after effects of some major injuries but I am not ready to put down ( some people might like it if I was!!) However, I always remember the motto ' better a day too early tha a day too late'. Actually I think too many people leave it too long, usually for their own emotions not the horses.

 

[Orangehorse]

They’re all different, but generally if they can walk, get up and lie down, and look happy enough then they’re fine.

If they’re in too much pain, they’ll stop eating, lose condition, lose interest. You can tell.

Some people are very trigger happy with euthanising horses, but I think they quite like being alive as long as they’re enjoying life. A crocky leg or 4 doesn’t stop most from being happy in the field.

Not so sure about this, that would be leaving it too long.

I think they would have to be in a LOT of pain to stop eating and lose interest, nearly at the end I would think.
I agree that if they can get up and down easily and sound at walk in the field then they are OK.

As a sufferer myself from arthritis, it is something so common that is dismissed, until you get it. The pain can become grinding and wearying and acute (I'm actually OK at the moment but I have memories of when it was bad, when I was crying from the pain in my knees). A local girl had a lovely horse that was retired with arthritis from a busy life as eventer and hunter and they noticed that the previous nice horse was getting more and more grumpy to handle, so that was when he was PTS.

 

[ester]

Frank is stiff behind, bit not reactive to flexions and walking straighter than a couple of years ago so I presume at least the one hock we know about has fused.

He’s been on daily bute for a fair while, it’s hard to assess from a distance but mum says he’s just not quite him otherwise and I’m a quality over quantity person too.

He essentially gets every whim catered for and is somewhat micromanaged for all his niggley bits as we can do that. He’s very happy with life as it is ?.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

If they can't keep up with the herd, I think it's time to say goodbye. I am happy to give bute to allow that to happen. Certainly any horse that struggles to get up/down should be given a dignified end but I wouldn't want to wait until that point, myself.

 

[ester]

Frank’s never kept up with cally ?.

 

[Misty 2020]

I think it’s fine once’s they can still run around the field and play with each other and still be a horse. I now plenty of people who have horses that are retire and are lame in the field but getting on very well and are very happy. As someone who developed arthritis as a child . I would never compare a horse with arthritis to my arthritis .

 

[ycbm]

As someone who developed arthritis as a child . I would never compare a horse with arthritis to my arthritis .

Can I ask why not? They feel pain with the same receptors as we do and arthritis is arthritis in a horse or a human.

 

[millikins]

We had our old pony pts early last summer. She'd been happy on a bute a day for a long time, she certainly had arthritic hocks and probably in her front coffin joints, my thought was if she needs 2 bute daily to be comfortable then it's time. She was always boss, only had to flick back an ear to maintain order and she had started to lose her place in the herd so decided it was time.

 

[ycbm]

I think that one thing people forget when they are considering whether their horse has a good enough life is that on the bad days, the bad is all the horse knows. It can't rationalise that tomorrow the pain will be less and it can't say 'well, a little bit of pain is worth going through today if it means I'm still here to hug my grandchildren/see that new Bond film/ insert_your_choice_of_good_thing next week'.

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[HashRouge]

I think that one thing people forget when they are considering whether their horse has a good enough life is that on the bad days, the bad is all the horse knows. It can't rationalise that tomorrow the pain will be less and it can't say 'well, a little bit of pain is worth going through today if it means I'm still here to hug my grandchildren/see that new Bond film/ insert_your_choice_of_good_thing next week'.

So on those grounds, what would you do with a horse like mine? I'm not picking a fight btw, I'm genuinely interested!

 

[ycbm]

I get very worried when people write 'you will know', because of how often it's not true. I would never have known how much pain my tb was in recently if I hadn't chanced to have exactly the right height of door for him to hang his head on to take the weight off his neck. It was only that behaviour, for hours at a time, which really gave it away. How many stables/barns have a door just under six feet high that he could have done that on?

The other problem with 'you will know' is that sometimes what the owner will know is when the time is right for their pain, not the horses. Over many years I've seen too many horses left well beyond what looks like the right time to me.
.

 

[Chianti]

I retired my last horse when she was 12 as she was 'pottery' with even just light hacking as her work. She had a Danilon a day and blossomed with retirement - in the field you wouldn't have known that she had any problems. When I trotted her up for the vet when she had her annual jabs he would only half jokingly say that she should go back into work. She had 10 years of happy retirement and had to be PTS from something not related to her movement.

 

[ycbm]

So on those grounds, what would you do with a horse like mine? I'm not picking a fight btw, I'm genuinely interested!

Well you say she isn't lame, so there doesn't seem any question, if you want to give her a retirement.

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[milliepops]

So on those grounds, what would you do with a horse like mine? I'm not picking a fight btw, I'm genuinely interested!

I agree with ycbm's general thoughts on this thread I think, for me personally i think I'd be thinking towards letting her go. I'm not saying you should do this! you are obviously managing her well and are happy to give that close input. But I am not prepared to monitor mine so closely that I'd be chosing between one or 2 danilon a day to keep them comfortable.... I have 4 other horses to stress over constantly and I consider that I have already given them a nice retirement which they have enjoyed.

On a personal level if I saw that mine were lame in trot or not lying down like normal I would take that as an indication that I was starting to be unable to maintain their comfort.

ETA. I think when I only had one horse, or maybe 2, I would have felt differently and I'd probably still have been at the "throw everything at them" stage. but realistically they are in god's waiting room now, it's nice having them around but ultimately the younger ones are my priority now.

 

[Cortez]

My granny's demonstrably lame, but I don't think she's ready for the kennels quite yet, come to that I'm not exactly sound either.....

"Field sound" (AKA lame) is a subjective thing, but any horse that is struggling to keep up, losing it's place in the herd, finding it hard to get up or down or otherwise obviously distressed should IMO be considered for euthanasia. I won't keep anything on long term pain killers.

 

[Nari]

I don't mind a degree of long term pain relief as long as it's working. To me it's the look in their eye, they need to be showing an interest in life, that's more important than a specific level of lameness though clearly constantly hopping lame is unacceptable.

 

[SEL]

My draft horse hasn't been sound for years due to ringbone. With him there's a definite mechanical short striding which doesn't change with bute

He seems happy enough pottering with his girls. Back at the beginning of lock down he got an abscess in that foot and then he looked really in pain. I watch him closely for any changes in behaviour - but given he jumped (only 1/2 foot!) the electric recently I'm guessing he's managing ok.

 

[Misty 2020]

Can I ask why not? They feel pain with the same receptors as we do and arthritis is arthritis in a horse or a human.

horse cannot speck it could be in a lot worse than a owner realize . Horses are very good at hiding pain. At least people can talk and tell people how they feel.

 

[honetpot]

I think if they have a 'social' life, can get out of the way if needed, maintaining their weight, generally well, do not look miserable, apart from their obvious infirmity there is nothing else that would single them out, they are OK. I have one whose lungs are absolutely stiff, but to see him run up the field and chase the others you would think there was nothing wrong with him. I have another oldie who is had EMS and a bit grumpy even though he has no symptoms at present, the day he walks up lame is the day he goes. He lives to eat, and a life in a bare patch on rations would be a living hell for him.

 

[ester]

I've told mum she could ride F again if she wanted rather than lead him out, she's not keen