Acceptable level of lameness in retirement

[Gearchange]

Must be able to lay down and get up easy. Sound in walk. I would tolerate a low level lameness in trot providing the horse was happy enough in themself, eating well, jolly, interested in life.

 

[Tiddlypom]

Some people are very trigger happy with euthanising horses, but I think they quite like being alive as long as they’re enjoying life. A crocky leg or 4 doesn’t stop most from being happy in the field.

But it’s not then great when the crocky leg(s) give up and the old horse is found down in the field, and can’t be got up. I’ve known this happen to far too many horses, none fortunately mine, though I’m a month too soon not a day too late person.

I am ok with medicating a horse for a comfortable retirement. Senior mare is under very close watch at the mo - she’s on 2 prascend and now also on 1 Danilon a day, and has an eyewateringly expensive chiro vet check booked for later this week. If we can’t get her right, she will go.

 

[Auslander]

I don't think I'd be able to fully retire Alf, as he needs a level of fitness/muscle tone to keep him ticking over. I know he has arthritis, and I am very aware that he could start to go downhill, and I'll have to make the call - but at the moment, he is very much the boss of his herd, and is enjoying the easy life - eating and snoozing, so I'm not worried about him! He hacks out regularly, and if I leave him a week, it takes him 10 minutes to loosen up when we go out next, so he definitely needs to be worked to keep him flexible - as he doesn't exercise a lot in the field - other than the twice daily gallop down to the dining area!

 

[milliepops]

I've told mum she could ride F again if she wanted rather than lead him out, she's not keen

??
Yeah if someone in the village fancied a light hack I'd dig out some tack for my 2...

But I think millie might be a bit off putting ?

 

[[131452]]

The horse needs to be able to trot without huge lameness to be considered field sound.
Discussed this with my vet before putting my old boy to sleep.

 

[sherry90]

I’d say if it isn’t field sound in walk that’s no a good indicator (stiffness in a retired horse would be different to a head nod lameness and I’d accept some stiffness) but I’ve seen an owner on a previous yard keep their horse going even with a distinct nod at walk. Horse is still able to get down roll/sleep but definitely lost sparkle and weight. If it were mine, I would have PTS now but others may think she has a good quality of life suitable to retire. It’s somewhat subjective.

 

[RHM]

Can I ask why not? They feel pain with the same receptors as we do and arthritis is arthritis in a horse or a human.

If she developed arthritis as a child I’m presuming it will be sJIA or pJIA which is a vastly different disease. Osteoarthritis is not the same as these systemic inflammatory diseases. The pain she will suffer will be vastly different to that of osteoarthritis. They have a similar name but are not similar conditions.

 

[Misty 2020]

If she developed arthritis as a child I’m presuming it will be sJIA or pJIA which is a vastly different disease. Osteoarthritis is not the same as these systemic inflammatory diseases. The pain she will suffer will be vastly different to that of osteoarthritis. They have a similar name but are not similar conditions.

I have Rheumatoid arthritis and I also have also developed osteoarthritis arthritis due to surgery to fix my knee cap according to my surgeon. But with all due respect I really don’t want to turn this into a arthritis debate on a horse forum.

 

[Lillian_paddington]

Not something I’ve had to think about yet - but when the horse starts having ‘bad’ days, or is consistently lame in trot, or is losing its place in the herd (depending on how social the horse is, I’d be more likely to carry on if it was already a loner/less dominant member) then for me it would be time to put to sleep. Essentially if the horse is struggling.
I don’t see the benefit in stretching out retirement for a horse - if you’ve been doing horse owning ‘right’ they should have been happy and enjoying their life during their ridden career. Especially with the majority of horses nowadays being leisure or low level competition animals, the vast majority of the day they are not working anyway. So I would not stretch out the retirement of a horse much past the point where they are happy, sound and relatively strong.

 

[Polos Mum]

My 7 y/o has a bone cyst. After a months box rest, Osphos and bute the vet reassessed. He was not great on the rein it's on in the school and on the hard surface he looked grim on both reins, sadly. I pushed him hard for his opinion on 6 months in the field with that level of lameness, I was pretty unsure as to whether it would be fair - his view was that many ridden horses are that lame and nobody notices - shocking.

Measuring lameness severity is really really hard. I think you have to judge the whole picture, by observing closely and regularly - weight, activity, social interactions, lying down, facial expression etc.
I do think it is possible to 'know' if you look hard enough for the information - but I also think many people don't want to know because the decision is tough.

If you're asking strangers 'should I?' then the answer is almost certainly yes

 

[milliepops]

I don’t see the benefit in stretching out retirement for a horse - if you’ve been doing horse owning ‘right’ they should have been happy and enjoying their life during their ridden career. Especially with the majority of horses nowadays being leisure or low level competition animals, the vast majority of the day they are not working anyway. So I would not stretch out the retirement of a horse much past the point where they are happy, sound and relatively strong.

I think this is a good point. I felt like I owed my old campaigner a retirement but more because I was able to improve her quality of life by moving to the big field we have at home, and also because she is still essentially a very healthy horse who doesn't need a lot of maintenance to enjoy her life so PTS at the point she stopped being ridden would have seemed premature. but you're right, she lived a comfortable life before now. I don't intend to let her reach the stage where she's struggling physically. I know people who are still riding their horses that are a lot more crocked than she is and it makes me a bit sad for them

 

[Cortez]

I have watched people keep horses alive that were way, way past the point of enjoying life for the most selfish of reasons: their own feelings, the old "I love him/her too much to put down". I've even seen a horse kept alive - and having to be hoisted up with a tractor from lying down - because the owner wanted to say they had a 34 year old horse. There is a time for retirement, if the horse is lucky, and also it's a lucky horse which has a caring owner who knows when to say goodbye.

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

As long as they are comfortable on say 2 bute a day, I would not hesitate to have them as field ornament. Depends on cause of lameness four bute a day would be my max, but only short term say through a lami attack. Anymore then that would be it.

 

[oldie48]

tbh I think it's something we should all consider. I had an older horse with cushings and a bit of hock arthritis. I was happy to keep him on prascend to control his cushings and to give him the odd bute if he looked a bit stiff but had decided that if he developed laminitis then I would pts as I didn't want to have to restrict his time out in the field. I'd also pts if teeth became an issue and a horse was struggling to graze normally.

 

[Littlebear]

Thank you for all the comments, so helpful to read through. I am not there yet but i am definitely in some state of concern, there is some lameness in 3 legs, walks fine, eats, happy in general, gets down and up and is a picture of health....until trot - then there is distinctive head nod and very visible lameness.
The only horse i have ever put down in my life was visibly struggling in walk so it was an easy call to make, this one does not feel as easy to decide on.

 

[SEL]

Thank you for all the comments, so helpful to read through. I am not there yet but i am definitely in some state of concern, there is some lameness in 3 legs, walks fine, eats, happy in general, gets down and up and is a picture of health....until trot - then there is distinctive head nod and very visible lameness.
The only horse i have ever put down in my life was visibly struggling in walk so it was an easy call to make, this one does not feel as easy to decide on.

I think if you are watching closely then you start to get a feel for whether they are having more than the odd bad day (all of mine today - the horse flies are out in force) and if they are starting to lose their bounce. When mine had his abscess back in March it was horrendous. The vets were on emergency calls only (so they would have come out to PTS, but I wanted to know what was wrong first) and my poor lad had pain written all over his face. The one thing that made me believe abscess was that bute wasn't touching him - so it was either that or something catastrophic. Quite quickly a bulge appeared in his hoof wall and as soon as that cracked off the relief was immediate.

So now I know what 'awful' looks like I also know that there is absolutely no way in the world he is ever going to get to that stage. Fortunately he makes an extremely good pet and stressy horse baby sitter, but I will be reassessing before winter because limited turnout and overnight stabling isn't helpful.

 

[Annagain]

I'm 99% certain A is now retired. He's having 2 weeks of danilon before we give him one last try and we're only trying this because he still seems to enjoy going out (still gets excited and joggy, when his arthritis has bothered him in the past he's been very lethargic) but has a spell of a 8 or 9 lame strides then goes back to being ok again for 10 minutes before having the lame spell again. He's fine on grass, it's only ever on hard ground. I think I'd rather retire him while he's still able to enjoy himself in the field than keep trying to ride him and crock him so badly that he gets no retirement at all.

He's totally sound in the field. I video him trotting whenever I see him and compare them to previous videos and he's no different there than 2 years ago. He still plays, rolls (boy does he roll) and gets up without any problem and has the odd blast. The only thing I've noticed is he doesn't always put his bad foot as far forward as the other when he spreads out for a wee. I've always said I wouldn't keep him on danilon long term (it's just a trial at the moment) but now I'm potentially facing that, if I can keep him as happy as he seems in the field on one danilon a day I think I will as I'm not ready to say goodbye yet and I genuinely don't think he is either. Other than his intermittent lameness and his ugly but untroublesome melanomas he's the picture of health - a perfect weight, bright, shiny coated, a very healthy appetite and a field full of friends he interacts with brilliantly.

 

[poiuytrewq]

Last retired horse I let go a bit too long. (Family were very against pts and we all disagreed on our version of quality of life)
This time it will be when he’s visibly lame in trot in the field.

 

[PapaverFollis]

I think the line for me is somewhere around when they can't consistently trot without a head nod or can't have a canter without being really ouchy afterwards. It's really hard to see it and be honest about it though and most yards I've been on have had that one old horse that everyone insists is still loving life but actually just looks really stressed out to me.

If you get to the point where they aren't getting up and down easily it's very much time. But there are lots and lots of people who are horrified about PTS before the horse is literally on its last legs. People see it as playing god I think. I don't agree but have seen this attitude over and over. And if you are surrounded by people like that it's even harder to do what I would consider to be the right thing for the horse.

 

[IWantAShetland]

I have a 20 year old field ornament, I've had him 15 years. He has an old injury, which although he did come sound after it has started to effect him now. Hes also lame in front on a tight circle and if trotting on a small circle. Hes not noticeably lame in walk or trotting on the opposite rein, hes otherwise happy Inthe field and being fussed over and led about by my youngest daughter and so I'm happy he is comfortable at the moment. I have moved him to a flat field though, instead of being on a hillside.

I would like to think as I've had him so long I would be able to notice subtle changes in his behaviour which would tell me when he starts being uncomfortable, at which point I would start to consider PTS. I agree with the point that if they have stopped eating you have left it too long.

 

[blitznbobs]

It really depends on the horse.
My young mare had hock isues and probably other problems as well . She was 1/10 lame at walk and 3/10 at trot but she was a competition horse and didn’t thrive well in a field she got very bolshy and didn’t cope well with the lack of work. She was pts after 3 months in the field at 7 years old. My old traditional show cob has one arthritic hock . He is lame variably at walk and trot and comes sound most of the time on 2 Danilon . He is the king of the field is cheeky and seems happy and will chase the younger ponies round for ages... he seems happy enough. When he isn’t happy he will be pts...

 

[honetpot]

My first horse that I owned was also the first I had to make the choice of having him PTS. When I got him he had navicular, so I was very sensitive to when he wasn't right, I knew when he was short when others couldn't see it, but sometimes it creeps up on you. He was retired and turned out with a young pony, and I just looked at him and thought, he wasn't lame but just not right, and it was time. I have a 24 year old with hardly any teeth, but I can honestly say he is just as naughty and bright as when he was four, he whinnies every morning, if he doesn't the chances are he has escaped, and is somewhere he shouldn't be. Like the feed room.

 

[ester]

OP I do think head nodding always stands out more than a hind end lameness so probably makes people think a bit more than one who might be a bit lame on both hinds so look sound enough if you avoid looking too closely.

I did nearly PTS 2 years ago (when he was 25), but I didn't have sufficient info to make a definitive decision at that point. Had he been the same the following summer I would have PTS as it was he wasn't so it remained a bit of a mystery and I'm pleased now I didn't.

We are lucky that having our own land, and a retired mum at home we can provide a tailored environment (which is mostly weight management TBH)
I do have a list of things that would mean immediate PTS.