ACCIDENT WHILST TRAVELLING WITH A LICENSED TRANSPORTER help pls!

A

ABB1

New User
Joined
14 August 2013
Messages
8
Visit site
I recently had a horrific experience whilst travelling my horse and my friends horse with a licensed transporter in a 3.5ton lorry. We travelled in convoy so two of us went in the lorry and the rest of our party were in a car following the lorry. We had only just left the yard, the horses seemed unsettled at first, but then they were quiet. We went down a fairly steep hill and the driver seemed to break quite hard but all was still fine. A few yards later, we heard a huge bang. My horses leg came out the side of the lorry. The ramp on the other side fell down and my friends horse almost came right out of the lorry. The top doors luckily didn't open so he was held in, but his back end was forced onto the ramp.. It was awful.

We jumped in the back of the truck and the partition had come lose as they had pushed the breast bar forwards by about 1cm or less. The partition had swung and had trapped my friends horse up against the doors. By some miracle the horses escaped with only minor cuts.

I was so in shock at seeing his leg come out the side of the lorry. The owner of the horsebox is now making us pay for damages. We showed pictures of the damage to a horsebox repairer and they said that the horsebox wasn't safe for travel and the horses should never have been able to have opened the ramp or make a hole like that. The sides of the lorry are made from plywood, honeycomb plastic sheets and fibreglass. The hole was at floor level.


I just wondered if this had happened to anyone else? I am now faced with a bill of £7000 or more, yet our horses nearly died in a lorry that's not safe. Where do I stand?
 
There's no way I would pay.
Contact your third party insurer at once put it in their hands and I would seek to recover your costs plus something for damages .
If you have pictures guard them with your life.
Write staight away and your friends and the rest of the party your accounts of what happened.
I don't think I would speak to the transporters just direct them to your insurer.
 
Do you know the make and model of the horsebox? how heavy are your horses? many 3.5 tonne horseboxes wouldn't have enough payload for two large horses and three people and if the case here then licensed or not they won't be insured and you can report them.
 
If the owner of the lorry was hiring himself and his vehicle out, and was as you say, Licensed, then presumably he'd have had adequate insurance. If no mention was made of your liabilities at or before the start of the journey, then I fail to see how the haulier can now hold you responsible.

You could also point out that it was his erratic driving which brought about the accident. Do you have a bill from a Vet for the horse's treatment? If you do, offer it as a counter claim.

He's trying it on. Tell him to sod off.

Alec.
 
I would hope that - as a horse owner - you have public liability insurance. Contact your insurers immediately and get their advice - because if this dipstick transporter tried to sue you, it would be an insurer issue.

One can only assume there is a problem with the transporter's licensing/insurance or they wouldn't be so stupid as to try this on!
 
Definitely don't just pay out. I don't know much about horse boxes & travelling, but that really doesn't sound like it was safe to me.
Get in touch with anyone & everyone who could help or give you advice before you decide what to do.. Your insurance company, BHS, Trading Standards, maybe even Citizen's Advice? Someone may know whether or not the company even has a leg to stand on when asking you to pay for the damage in the first place.. IMO, you should be asking compensation for the horses' injuries!
Good luck, hope you get it sorted soon!
 
JanetGeorge said:
I would hope that - as a horse owner - you have public liability insurance. Contact your insurers immediately and get their advice - because if this dipstick transporter tried to sue you, it would be an insurer issue.

One can only assume there is a problem with the transporter's licensing/insurance or they wouldn't be so stupid as to try this on!
Click to expand...

This - exactly.
 
Surely if this was with a licensed horsebox hire then they would have their own insurance to pay for this sort of thing??? That is the nature of their business. No way would I be paying and I would be questioning how my horse managed to kick through the side of the lorry (doesn't sound very robust to me) and how the accident came about in the first place. Did the lorry owner load and fasten partitions or you btw?

REALLY glad your horses are okay. DO NOT PAY, I HIGHLY DOUBT YOU ARE LIABLE!!
 
JanetGeorge said:
I would hope that - as a horse owner - you have public liability insurance. Contact your insurers immediately and get their advice - because if this dipstick transporter tried to sue you, it would be an insurer issue.

One can only assume there is a problem with the transporter's licensing/insurance or they wouldn't be so stupid as to try this on!
Click to expand...

^^^This, I suspect the vehicle was overweight, not many 3.5 t boxes can carry 2 horses, whoever they are licensed and insured with may well be interested if they are breaking the rules, get advice before you do anything and keep any evidence to start a counter claim.
 
I think Dizzydancer may be right .
OP get proper help quickly contact your insurer at once don't delay .
I think ( and hope I am right ) if he was transporting illegally it will be his issue not yours don't panic get good advice quickly.
 
Dizzydancer said:
Unless you were travelling ponies i think you will find transporter was over weight hence him tryin to claim off you as his insurance is null and void.
Click to expand...

This. 3.5t lorries are not suitable for travelling 2 horses, they are almost always overweight especially with passengers, fuel, tack, etc. It's the reason trendybraincell and I coordinate our outings so that we aren't trying to get Genie and Shadow to the same place (my lorry, tbc is on the insurance as a named driver, doesn't pay me any money for using it). If you are a BHS Gold Member then contact the legal helpline, otherwise contact your insurance company for advice. If it turns out he's not actually licenced then I'm pretty sure he's breaking the law or at least the terms of his insurance and therefore cannot claim on it.
 
the cheeky sod, you were paying for a service expecting a vehicle that was up to the job and it wasn't. That said I have seen some shocking 3.5ton conversions, using screws and bolts not fit for holding back a horse, ramps held up with just one fitting. I would be totally amazed if you were liable for anything, and as has been said he should be paying any vets bills.
 
I'd be seeking compensation for mental and physical injuries caused to my horse. Tell the transporter you will be taking it to small claims court.
 
Have you got your own insurance? Let the insurance companies sort it out. Tell him that you are going to deal with it that way, don't take part in any further correspondence with him. Do you have insurance? If not equine, you might find that you can claim under another household policy.
Not all lorries that look like 3.5 ton are, they can be modified and up-rated. However, that's for you to discuss with your insurance company, plus the damages you need to claim from him for travelling your horses in an unsafe vehicle.
 
what every one else says, especially with regards to weight, his payload including horses, all passengers and tack etc would have been 1300kg max and sometimes in those vans only 1000kg
his van was not to standard he put you all at risk, get legal advise, also go to Citizens advice and ask to be referred to Trading standards as well.
get some legal terms and put your intentions in writing!
glad you are ok
 
You bought a service . He didn't have the right kit. It's his responsibility not yours

End off - he is responsible for any injuries your horse sustained tho
 
This is ridiculous! How he can try and claim the damages off you I don't know, if he had any sense he'd keep his head down and shut up because it sounds like this box had some serious issues.

I actually run a little horsebox rental company and would be absolutely gutted if this happened to me.

From the sound of things he is liable to pay you the cost of your vet fees plus damages for several reasons
1) Unless you were transporting two tiny ponies, with three people he would definitely have been carrying too much weight for a 3.5tn box (I only allow one large horse and one passenger in mine plus tack!)
2) He was driving erratically
3) From the sound of things his lorry was a sub-standard conversion - there is no way a horse would have been able to kick through the wall of a decent box and definitely should not have been able to knock the ramp down

If I were him I would be expecting a legal case from you and to lose my license (in fact I would be suspicious if he had the proper transport license in the first place)

Did he make you sign anything before travel? If so, what does it say?
 
Lovescobs said:
what every one else says, especially with regards to weight, his payload including horses, all passengers and tack etc would have been 1300kg max and sometimes in those vans only 1000kg
Click to expand...

Yup - and the ones that have 1300kgs are the ones that are virtually bare inside and still look like vans. If it was coachbuilt (which it sounds like it was judging by what you say the walls were made of) then you get more space but the payload is a fair bit less (ie 800-1100kg).

They can be uprated to 3.9 tonnes but that's only 400kg extra....
 
Hi Abbi

Sorry for your terrible experience using a 3.5t lorry.

I won't say 'licenced transporter' as I do not believe these little tin pot 2 boxes are up to the standard of transporting for hire and reward at any time!

Firstly get yourself a Horse Solicitor

Stuart Farr at Clarke Willmott

You need to check carefully through the terms and conditions you signed when you filled out the booking form with the transporter.

The transporter should have already supplied to you his DEFRA Licence Number which should be on the Animal Transport Certificate that he gave to you at the end of transport, that is a legal requirement and should be kept for 6 months.

Certainly if it's in the terms and conditions that you as the horse owner are liable for any damage that your horse may do, However, if you can prove that the lorry is not fit for purpose then you are on to a win win situation there.

It sounds like the 3.5t driver is unable to drive carefully so you need to ask for his ACET or CET (advanced certificate in Equine Transport or Certificate in Equine Transport)

You also should have had the Animal Transport Certificate and this will have the transporters DEFRA licence. You can check with DEFRA Carlisle if the number is current.

If the lorry is indeed 3.5t under then an operators licence is not required, however, if this lorry has been uprated (doubtful) then VOSA will need to be involved.

Ask for the drivers log book. All 3.5t drivers drive under domestic rules and SHOULD by law make a record of them in a recognised log book. You can find out all about driver hours from VOSA and indeed have a book you can download and in the back is all about Domestic Rules.

Hope you can get all this sorted!

At the very least the idiot 3.5t driver should have fully comp insurance which will cover all damage done.

By the sounds of it, he hasn't!
 
Thanks everyone, it's such a relief to hear that everyone thinks the same as we do. So far I haven't spoken to a single person that thinks that we should pay. I've used this lady before to transport my other horse with no problems. I didn't actually sign a disclaimer as she didn't have a blank one on the lorry, however I've had someone look over the disclaimer and apparently it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

"JMRT" thanks for the info regarding a solicitor, I will definitely look into it. She does have a certificate as I've seen it, but not sure what insurance she has.

We have gold insurance so have also contacted the BHS. She told us that we could get an independent quote for the damages so I had someone go and look at the lorry last night and as soon as he told her that the lorry wasn't fit for purpose, she kicked off.

It's like a big nightmare, the only thing that keeps me going is the fact that our horses are still alive. We were so lucky. I just hope this never happens to anyone else.

Thanks again all for your advice, it's been very helpful!!
 
ABB1 said:
Thanks everyone, it's such a relief to hear that everyone thinks the same as we do. So far I haven't spoken to a single person that thinks that we should pay. I've used this lady before to transport my other horse with no problems. I didn't actually sign a disclaimer as she didn't have a blank one on the lorry, however I've had someone look over the disclaimer and apparently it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

"JMRT" thanks for the info regarding a solicitor, I will definitely look into it. She does have a certificate as I've seen it, but not sure what insurance she has.

We have gold insurance so have also contacted the BHS. She told us that we could get an independent quote for the damages so I had someone go and look at the lorry last night and as soon as he told her that the lorry wasn't fit for purpose, she kicked off.

It's like a big nightmare, the only thing that keeps me going is the fact that our horses are still alive. We were so lucky. I just hope this never happens to anyone else.

Thanks again all for your advice, it's been very helpful!!
Click to expand...

I am so glad you have the gold membership .
Try not to worry to much its not your problem you are insured it is the BHS insurer
who now deals with it .
That's what you get insurance for to pay if necessary when something happens.
If the women rings you or hassles you in any way don't discuss it and say its in the hands of the insurers .
You could look separately at recovering your costs and damages from her if you wish to.
 
If you are a Gold member of the BHS then phone up their legal help line. If not contact the insurers of your horse to ensure that you have third party public liability insurance. (You should have a policy which will provide up to £10,00,000 public liability cover).
Alternatively you may need to instruct a specialist equine solicitor.
What is the make and model of the chassis cab?
Who made the container?
From this one can determine if the vehicle had sufficient payload to transport 2 horses. (A 3.5 ton vehicle most certainly will not)
 
If it was a legal transporter then they should have insurance for this.
Or maybe you should get someone to look at the box and give their opinion or the condition of the box before the accident.

Also sounds like it was probably over weight, 3.5 lorries can rarely carry two big horses.

It amazes me the state of some boxes people travel their horses in.
I know there can be problem hidden and unknown but they should have regular checks.
 
Last edited:
ABB1 one thing confuses me a bit when I have had a claim ( cars not horses admittedly) all I have done is contact the insurer do a claim form over the phone and exchange details of the insurers with the other side leave it at that .
I am not sure why you had to get someone to go and see the lorry I would have thought the BHS insurer sort all that.
Have you spoken to the BHS insurer yet?
Ps Do want AA says to.
 
Thank you for backing me up Goldenstar. It is imperative the incident is reported. This so called licensed transporter has a lot of questions to answer and there is potential for prosecution which Trading Standards are able to enforce.
 
Goldenstar said:
ABB1 one thing confuses me a bit when I have had a claim ( cars not horses admittedly) all I have done is contact the insurer do a claim form over the phone and exchange details of the insurers with the other side leave it at that .
I am not sure why you had to get someone to go and see the lorry I would have thought the BHS insurer sort all that.
Have you spoken to the BHS insurer yet?
Ps Do want AA says to.
Click to expand...

The transporter told us that if we wanted to we could get an independent quote for the repairs, so that's why I sent someone. He immediately said that the lorry was not fit to be used. We haven't made a claim yet, we are trying to prove that the lorry was not safe for use.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top