Acorn poisoning - help!! /suggestions needed

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Befnee

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OK this is going to be an epic read so be warned grab yourself a cuppa and settle in for a long read but I'd really appreciate it if you do.......

So long story short ...my horses have had what the vets are asssuming and pretty sure is acorn/oak leave poisioning. I am beating myself up about it beyond belief so if the negative comments about me being proactive about keeping them away from the trees could be kept away that would be great. I didn't realise the grass had got so poor in the paddock and we only moved to this yard in July so didn't know the land. I wasn't aware they were eating them with lack of grass and now it's too late. I already hate myself.

It has been the week from hell..4 out of 5 of them have been affected and I have had vets out every day, sometimes twice a day. Diarrhoea went through the affected 4 and severe weight loss, lack of appetite 2 got dehydration whilst 2 cleared up much faster (on probiotics and antibiotics on stand by) so can't of had such an exposure to them. The older TB (my husbands retired first horse) began a colic cycle which we fought for 3 days with the vets to save him. He died in the early hours of Friday morning. We are devastated.

My main focus is now the ones that are left. As blunt as that is. The other one who had dehydration is still fighting. He hasn't had colic symptoms but is much younger and a fighter. He still has bad diarrhoea but limited to 1 every 1-2 hours now which is better than a week ago at the beginning. They have all dropped weight but this one looks awful. I want to cry looking at him. I know it's the diarrhoea but i need it under control. Vet out yesterday again as one of the other who recovered quickly was a slightly colicky and I was taking no chances. He gave the diarrhoea one more buscapan and painkillers to tide him over and try and get his belly a bit comfier. I'm now syringing the probiotics into him mixed with water as he is refusing to eat his feeds so the vet said that's the thing that's going to get his droppings right.

So he's drinking really well so keeping dehydration at bay and he self medicates with his salt lick well. Vets happy he's not dehydrated like at the beginning. He in at night and out during the day on a small fenced area of grass that I move every day out the front of the stables. He'll eat grass during the day, but at night will only pick at his haynet. The vet said not to feed sugar or molasses as theyre not going to help his belly right now so I'm offering him 3 feeds of dengie molasses free Alfa A a day which he picks at. After a week of barely eating anything but grass in the day I've started getting inventive trying to mix through a handful of normal Alfa, sprinking some of the build up cubes on to tempt him. Tried it warm, tried it on his door instead of from the floor. Etc ..Everything with the plain feed I've got.

I'm going to ask the vet tomorrow morning for some ulcer gold to see if that helps. I got excited when I brought him in this afternoon and he started eating his Haynet which he went at for about 5 minutes which is an improvement but after he stoppedt I then had to syringe all his stuff in so he went off everything after that in a huff as he hates being dosed with stuff orally.

Generally it's been a very stressful week for him. He hates vets. He sees them coming and is already worked up. Hates needles and it's a fight to get them in and he's had his fair share of them this week. That and his stable and herd mate died next door to him 2 days ago. So I get that his stress levels must be sky high.

I'm looking for advice... has anyone been through this and out the other side? He's a very poor condition score now. Any ideas on what to tempt him to eat with bearing in mind I have to take into consideration his sensitive stomach so don't want to make huge changes? It's been a bit of an essay so thanks if you stuck to he end!! I have seriously condensed what has happened this week so probably left stuff out.

Edited to add: just to say no temperatures the whole way through
 
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I have not dealt with acorn poisoning but have nursed unwell horses and know that patience is the key, even if you think they look awful and have dropped loads of weight as long as you keep the fluids up and they have turned the corner from the medical point of view then all you can do is tempt them with tasty food, make sure you never overface them with too much, so little and often, feed as many tiny feeds as you can, if they want to pull through they will start to eat more but to start with it will be tiring to eat much, 5 mins chewing hay will be hard work so make everything as easy as you can, put some on the ground if he finds it easier, soak some and get in some haylage so he has options of what and where he eats.

Feed I would get something that you can soak, alfalfa is a good conditioning feed but it is very hard work to chew and may be too much for him at the moment, it will be expensive to try different things but from experience will be worthwhile. I would contact Allen and Page who will send samples, as will other feed producers, if you have a nice friendly yard nearby pop in and ask if you can buy a scoop or two of whatever they use.
I would recommend Fast fibre/ veteran vitality as possibly suitable for getting him interested, speedibeet would also be good as would micronised linseed both for condition as well as good for his tummy.

The other thing he may like is a bucket of very sloppy speedibeet or grassnuts, they would also be suitable to feed him, with an apple chopped up to float on the top so he can slurp it as and when, this worked well for one of mine who ended up with 4 -5 different concoctions in his box at all times when he was unwell and struggling to keep his fluid intake up.
 
what a terrible week, so sorry for you and for the loss of your husband's horse. I haven't been through acorn poisoning but I have been through botulism so I know what it is like. Have you tried gruel? I am sure you will have. I fed it really sloppy and warm so they don't even have to eat but just suck it up. Quite a few like spillers hi fibre cubes soaked as a sloppy gruel. I found I could feed it every 2 hours, the horse loved it and it solved the water, hay and feed problem all in one go. It is pretty sloppy when it goes through the horse but if you can get him to like it you can soon cut down the water which will firm everything up a bit more.
Good luck, fingers crossed for both you and your horse.
 
Could you try the Agrobs feed - no fillers or binders and low sugar/starch but smells fantastic, they do grass nuts which you soak, think they are called Wisencobs, they also do a lovely Museli & Aspero which is a grasses chaff and it's really good quality - might be worth a try. Good luck, mine got a bacterial infection last year and looked so awful I thought I was going to lose him and he suddenly couldn't tolerate alfalfa thereafter. These feeds are just grasses and herbs and mine really took to them so I now won't use anything else - I hope your horses turn a corner and so sorry for your lose, I've had mine such a long time he was part of our family before the children, it's heartbreaking to see them struggle.

P.S Pink mash seems to be popping up a lot on the forum - might be worth looking at too as think it as has added probiotics - also look at Protexein, helps repopulate the hind gut bacteria and their helpline is brilliant.
 
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I have just noticed you are in Somerset, if you are anywhere near Shepton Mallet send me a pm and I will sort out some feeds for you to try.
 
Thanks for your replies.
Be positive- I've just been back to them to do another check and re feed/hay. I popped some speedi beet (using it for the others thankfully so have it made) in with a half his Alfa and I wetted it down to slop and he ate it! So happy. OK so it was only a tiny feed but still he didn't turn his nose up at it.

Paddy555- I'll definitely look into the spillers hi fibre cubes thanks. Think that may be a good start adding in nuts as a gruel.

Beth H - he's on protexin thankfully. I use the gut balancer on him in winter any way I love the stuff. He's on the stress use dose now but having to mix it with water and syringe it in. I'll definitely give those feeds a google and look at too thanks.

It's horrible watching him loosing more weight. I can't stand to watch him waste away. Loosing another one is not an option. I feel elated he ate that small feed this evening though even if he hadn't touched his hay.

Thank you again
 
Speedibeet will be much easier for him to eat than alfalfa, I can let you have some alfalfa pellets and grass nuts if you want to try something different to soak to see if he likes them, just let me know as I know how tricky it can be and you cannot buy everything in the shop.
 
No experience of acorns but my mare had cynanchum poisoning from eating a toxic plant. It was an incredibly difficult time and a case of trying to manage the symptoms and waiting. I'm so sorry for you and your husband, this must be awful for you both.

My only advice would be not to worry too much about getting condition on and rather focus on getting the symptoms, like the diarrhea, under control. The condition will come as the symptoms are dealt with.

I know it's easier said than done; mine looked like a walking skeleton and I remember crying my eyes out over it in the shower. She did pick up but it took months. My vet wasn't concerned about getting the weight back on, he was more worried we would overload her system and actually advised not attempting to change too much about her diet by adding anything rich or too high calorie. We did little and often, three or four feeds a day. She was on speedibeet anyway, a balancer, a low-energy mix and as much hay as she wanted.

Thinking of you and sending my best wishes.
 
Charcoal will help "mop up" the toxins. I really feel for you, I lost a foal to suspected acorn poisoning and potentially other sufferers too. Living in the forest we had a bad year a few years ago with a lot of stock lost.

I hope that the others make a good recovery. Thoughts with you.
 
no experience of acorn poisoning but I had a mare with malabsorption syndrome, went very poor in condition and turned very picky with her food.

some tips from me:

I agree - soaked food - basically a mash, the less the gut has to work to digest the better

split food into a minimum of three meals to maximise digestibility

focus on a good balancer- then build your feed around that, but again keep the feeds small

Go buy a few bags of a grass chaff- something like 'just grass' and fill up a tub trug, leave it in the stable- gives a bit of variety

Add a good blood tonic- my reccomendation would be haemovite b + I honestly can't stress what a difference this makes - they do a powder form of it.

this may sound odd but feed from a raised manger - it was the only way my mare and other poorly horses I have known could eat without discomfort, feeding from the floor, they would stop eating after a few mouthfuls, feeding from a raised manger or from the hand- they would eat a lot more

Im sure your vet has mentioned but stay away from worming your horse for the foreseeable this could cause so much more damage at the moment.
 
One of mine had what was thought to be mild acorn poisoning last year - nothing like yours OP. After initial treatment the vet recommended Calendula (Marigold) to support them for a couple of weeks.

Yours are miles worse and absolutely don't try anything without your vet's agreement. But it might be worth thinking about as things improve. Big hugs <<<>>>
 
I can't add anything to the advice but didn't feel I could read & leave - so have some big hugs and try not to keep beating yourself up. Hindsight is always a wonderful thing.
 
You're already feeding all the things I would suggest OP (Protexin, high fibre nuts etc). Also, A&P fast fibre smells fabulous with hot water, its what our toothless oldie gets....

Best of luck in the next few weeks, and have a big hug x x

Fiona
 
Sorry I haven't replied. Thanks for all support and suggestions. I've picked up some feeds that a couple of them can go on to so if he didn't get on with them I could still use them. I'm managing to get a few small feeds down him with handfuls of soaked warm fibre pellets, sugar beet, Alfa A molasses free and pink mash. He seems to like all of those together and warm. Still syringing the protexin in. He ate half his haynet last night so that was a bonus and is eating grass in the day. More antibiotics prescribed today so more powered stuff to keep mixing with water and syringing in. He's got a swollen sheath now which the vet says is odema to do with him not absorbing protein. He's still weeing and drinking OK but with the diarrhoea it's a bit of a worry. We've been given some metronidazole to try for 4 days. If no improvement we'all be thinking vet hospital time. I was trying to avoid this as vets stress him so much but needs must. I just hope his belly settles a bit in the next few days. Annoyingly the metronidazole is in tablet form which are huge and he needs 10 a day so crushing them down and I'm going to mix them with some yogurt to syringe in as vets practice says they'll taste disgusting.

Fingers crossed for the next few days.
 
My horse had the flu and wouldn't eat or drink anything - her throat hurt, she struggled to breathe, probably couldn't smell very well. A teaspoon of garlic and warm water in the food helped tremendously!!! (Be careful with it as it's been implicated in anemia, but a small amount just to make food smell/taste good shouldn't hurt)

Ask your vet if you can add some EquiJewel to his feed- SUPER plain, high fat and fiber, great caloric content (it put my girl fat again in a few weeks). The vitamin E might do him some good too!

I just wanna say I'm so sorry- that kind of thing is hard to watch. When my mare was sick (we aren't 100% sure it was flu but it ticked all the viral boxes) I basically lived in her stall, sitting with the feed bucket in my lap and hand feeding her and bringing different bottled water, tap water, water from my hotel room to keep her drinking. It was heart wrenching. But I'm hoping so hard your horses will pull through!!!
 
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