ACP

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SO1

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I might have to give my pony ACP for the first time and just wondered how long it takes to wear off.

He is a large 14h and vet said 8 ACP how long will he be affected for and will it make him relaxed and sleepy.
 
It usually lasts for only a couple of hours maximum, surprised the vet has given you tabs though, it is usually sedalin gel now, which is just acp in gel form, works quicker than the tabs.
Rosie was about 14 hands, a sec c and she had up to 10 a day at one point.
 
I have the gel as well just vet gave me tablets too as they are cheaper than the gel!

So how does it work with horses on box rest who need to be calm then if it only lasts a few hours. I thought he if had then in the evening it would make sure he was calm during the night.
 
Have to disagree - the tabs don't usually kick in for a few hors then take a while to wear off.

8 is quite a lot in one go - if you want continuous sedation, I would sart off with 2 ml sedalin, which works much quicker than the tabs, then 4 tabs am and pm, or 2 tabs 4 times a day if this is feasible.
 
Vet said 8 am and 8 pm not a total of 8 a day! It is just cos he gets very stressy in stable during summer. He's fine in the winter when it is cold. It is mainly a night problem as during the day I can play with him and he will be ok as he is occupied.

He only needs to come in for a few days for worming or if there is no-one in his field group being turned out 24/7 which might happen as it is only a group of 5 at the moment and the others come in if it rains overnight or before a show etc. Long term it is usually ok as there are more living out and he is in a large group.
 
I am sorry, I did not make myself very clear. If it is a continous (sp) sedation that you want then yes morning and evening it will then stay in system, I thought you meant a short term quick fix. Apologies.
 
Good news then as don't want a stressy pony! He is a little monkey and will climb out of his stable and also have a temper tantrum if he wants to go out. He's a very babyish 5 year old who likes being outside except if it is really cold or hot. I am hoping it will be something he will grow out of with age.
 
How much is it in the UK and do you need the vet still? Over here its £15 for a tub of Granules and you can get it from the Pharmacie or go into the vet and ask for it!!
 
Are the tabs the same as they were years ago? I remember 10 years ago my horse used to have 20 tabs in one go just to be shod!

A while ago a vet friend gave me 5 to give to my dog to clip his nails and he goes mental, didnt make and difference in the slightest, he didnt even look a bit sleepy. Hes ok now though with lots of patience
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I think it does take a while to kick in so perhaps that is why your dog was not affected instantly or perhaps they were a different strength I am so hoping that they will work for pony as it is a last resort.
 
I wouldn't give ACP just because a pony got a bit stressy being in - he won't learn anything from the experience!! Same for clipping or anything non-essential - if you dope them, they don't improve!

We've had youngsters had to go onto several months of box rest - we just make sure they have plenty of haylage and a companion close by - they settle down quickly enough. I would also be careful about using ACP with a gelding - not as risky as with a colt or a stallion but even geldings can suffer penile prolapse due to the relaxation of the retractor penis muscles.
 
This is what he does when he tantrums

Starts by pawing the ground and throwing things about like his feed bucket or any rugs that are hung up, then he rolls around and then he throws himself again the concrete wall and then he climbs out over his stable door. It is for his own safety more than anything else. It is not collic it is a full blown tantrum - he does have companions on either side and ad lib hay. He is ok if it is bad weather or very hot and then he likes being in and is relaxed.

He is not mega greedy so food does not do it for him unless it is yummy meadow mix - he has nice hay and a lickit (which he does not like!).
 
Sedalin gel is £13, I am not sure about the acp tabs and I know there are some kind of regs about prescribing them now.
S01, I really dont mean this in a nasty way, but what the previous poster said is true, sedating him is not teaching him to behave! My one is 2, he was in for 3 weeks solid, it is not indeal I know and it certainly is not how it should be, BUT, your horse needs to learn that there are some things that have to be done and if he has to stay in then so beit.

A mix wont help his behaviour and neither will a sugary likit. Please dont take offence, I am only trying to help you.
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hi ya mine too gets rather stressy when in especially as now been in for nearly three wks. she is on ACP gets between 3 and 5mls am and pm but if she is chilled she doesn't get any depends how she is i use it to take the edge of her and help her relax not to fully knock her out she was box walking endlessly even with company she get no concentrates just one bucket am and pm of hi fi light and she does has a couple of likits a wk to help keep her sane! she also has valerian am and pm when needed alsoto help so not on ACP all the time. Yes ACP wont teach your horse how to behave but it will help them relax and you can drop the amount if they are coping. i would far rather have a less stressed (and safer when it comes to leading out) happier horse than one running round its stable not eating just because it needs to learn!!
 
I know he needs to learn but it is dangerous when he climbs out as he could slip and hurt his shoulder and he could hurt himself by throwing himself against the concrete walls.

He has been in all day and as it was bad weather he was perfectly happy. He does need to learn to be stop tantruming but it is hard to think of a safe way for him to learn. Any tips would be much appreciated - he would probably kick the door down if the top door was shut and he was left in total darkness.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I wouldn't give ACP just because a pony got a bit stressy being in - he won't learn anything from the experience!! Same for clipping or anything non-essential - if you dope them, they don't improve!



[/ QUOTE ]

I would disagree. A horse can't "learn" not to be stressed. And the horse doesn't know it's been sedated. I had a horse that was sold to me as requirung sedation for clippng. I started off giving him 4ml of sedalin so that clipping was a stress free experience. Gradually over the years I was able to reduce th dose, and now he doesnt need any, in fact gets quite dozy when I start the clippers up as he associates them with feeling relaxed and sleepy.

ACP is a relatively safe drug, and if it prevents your horse from injuring itself in the stable, or getting stress colic I would go ahead and use it.
 
yes and this is why i use ACP, Because it will take the edge of them and in time gradually reduce amount. tyr and make his stabel a place where he wants to be use things like snak a ball (with fibre nuts so not to go make him even madder!) replace some of hay quota with something like hi fi light as this takes much longer to eat hang carrots and other veg in stable radios on mayy also help reduce stress and if long term box rest or confinment then mirrors are ment to be very good and maybe think about useing a calming supplement in feed this amy help with coping with life.
gd luck!
 
He's not actually worried it is more of temper tantrum so for example today there was heavy rain so he was perfectly happy to be in eating hay as it was preferable to being outside in the torrential rain!
 
S01, I wasnt trying to be offensive at all, I hope you didnt take it that way. I have the number of a man that is a great trainer if you want it. B4 I had my boy his Mum was at her wits end with him, couldnt be turned out alone even for 5 mins. Couldnt stay in as he stropped, wouldnt ride out alone a whole heap of things. She got this guy in and he is a different horse!
 
No offence taken at all - any suggestions would be helpful - he is perfect in every other way no problem riding out on his own or being tied up on the yard on his own or doing anything else on his own just does not want to stay in stable unless the weather is really bad. He does not have seperation anxiety he just likes to be outdoors.

He started acting strange today - sniffing his bed, digging at the back of his stable, pawing the ground and rolling around and then a mouse leapt up and ran up the wall - so am wondering if perhaps he does not like mice. Cleared out the whole of his bed and could not find any evidence of mouse nest!
 
[ QUOTE ]

I would disagree. A horse can't "learn" not to be stressed. And the horse doesn't know it's been sedated. I had a horse that was sold to me as requirung sedation for clippng. I started off giving him 4ml of sedalin so that clipping was a stress free experience. Gradually over the years I was able to reduce th dose, and now he doesnt need any,

[/ QUOTE ]

Of COURSE he can learn not to be stressed - any horse can - how the hell else would they change! We have one here for schooling at present - a rather smart Lucitano filly who was a real stress-head when she arrived. Raced around the stable non-stop, screaming her t*ts off, screaming more when anything was led past her box. We just ignored it! She settled down and she's as good as gold in the stable now!

And of course the horse doesn't KNOW he's been sedated - but he is zonked to some degree or another depending on dose and his own reaction to sedation. I've got one mare (about 650 kg) who could hardly stand up on 3 ml of Sedalin - next time we had to scan her she had 1.5 and was fine. Another mare about the same size is impossible to scan on less than 6 ml. (Yes, I DO use it when it's essential, for the vet's safety and the mare's!) BUT the mares who are bad to scan and have to be doped don't improve! And the one mare we've had for 5 seasons - she's always needed 6 ml - anything less and the vet can't scan her at all. With 6 she doesn't realise she's being scanned - she's away with the fairies - so she doesn't learn that scanning is not THAT bad!

My husband's HW hunter was horrendously bad to clip when he was at a livery yard - full vet sedation required every time - Sedalin was useless - for 3 years! We got him home and taught him to be clipped WITHOUT sedation - which just involved NOT sedating him, NOT tying him up and letting him move away a bit when he got too stressed - first clip took about 5 hours over 3 days. By the end of the season we could do a full clip in two hours without any trouble. An improvement 'over the years' is not much to write home about!

Yes, Sedalin is relatively safe - and it's cheap enough. But if you use it constantly - particularly with geldings - sooner or later you'll get unlucky! You can't dope a horse every time you have to stable it - so the sooner they learn, the better. Plenty of bedding, a grill over the door, a radio playing helps some, mirrors help others - and ideally a stable with a window in the side wall and a companion next door. I have dozens of horses through here every year and I've only had one go over a stable door - a grill would have prevented that but we hadn't been warned she had no functioning brain and she seemed alright when first put in. She never did it again - although we DID use a grill after that!
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Hopefully once he has his grill up that will help he'll still be able to look out and see the other horses but hopefully it will be enough of a deterent for him not to try and fit through the space.

I know there is debate about horses trying to get out of the V space but I think for him that not being able to get his head out and see what was going on would add to his displeasure about being in.

He is fine in the winter when it is really cold and muddy or if it is really hot and he wants extra shade and to be away from the flies.
 
What about use of ACP for loading/travelling? Will it help in recovering from bad experience? How long after taking it is the horse safe to ride?
 
IMO - I would take the advise from your vet over those of members. Vets aren't stupid ( Why I'd never make it as one!!) he would of sumed up the risks. If he was mine I'd ACP, just take the edge off, and hopefully reduce it. I have a youngster that is the definition of trouble. He jumps out of his stable, rears and gets over the breast bar when traveling, pops or walks through fencing, will pick a fight with the boys twice he's size - If he carrys on he won't be with us when he's three! I would also stop feeding 'likits' (as in the make, I like the nutirition ones) there prue sugar I swear. God a girl gave them to two the fresh jumpers one night, it was very scary turning them out the next day! One kindly made a new window at the back of his stable
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I bought him a licket but he does not like it at all so no danger of that then.

I am going to ACP him when he comes in as it is now getting dangerous. He can also have swedes instead of lickets as he eats swedes and I am going to get some dengie good doer as a tasty hay alternative as he is fussy hay now that we have grass!
 
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