Action of bit

Tempi

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can anyone tell me the action of this bit? Also does anyone here use one?

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I know there was something about this bit a while ago, but i cant find it so im asking again
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katiejaye

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hiya, I have one of those, I have the NS universal bit with the same mouth piece. It works a bit like a gag depending where you put the reins. You can use two reins, the bottom one adding a bit more control and bringing the head down, or you can use roundings. It does help giving a little extra control and is a little less severe than a gag. Unfortunately Louis wasn't a big fan as he doesn't like the extra poll pressure and the action of a gag so it made him jog and prance quite a bit.
 

Tempi

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i thought it wouldnt be poll pressure as it has a curb?

i was assuming that you rode off one rein (cant see where the second would go?) off the middle ring, the bottom bit was where the curb goes, and the top ring you attached to the cheek pieces?

hmmmmmmmmmmmm thats what i was confused as to the action, as i assumed due to the curb it was a lifting one?
 

BBs

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I use it on winston for xc.
The lip strap really helps although i rarely use it.

Gives extra poll pressure, similar to the 3 ring gag but the pull is quicker and more defined.
 

katiejaye

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from the NS site:

The Action of the Universal

Any extension above the mouthpiece will cause poll pressure (head lowering), any extension below the mouthpiece will give leverage (head raising). When the two are combined this is generally referred to as a gag action. The Universal is one of my personal favourites. The gag action is not excessive and even strong horses generally appreciate this and respond as opposed to fighting it.

The cheeks are always attached to the small offset ring at the top - the top ring is angled very cleverly in order to avoid excessive cheek pressure.

The Tranz Lozenge

It is very important that the arrow engraved at the end of the mouthpiece is positioned on the left hand side (nearside) of the horse <b>pointing forwards</b> otherwise the lozenge will be positioned in an incorrect angle over the tongue.
The Tranz Arrow
The Tranz (or any other rounded lozenge) does not suffer from the major design flaw of the French Link. When a contact is taken with the French Link there are two proud semicircles either side of the flat link which dig into the tongue - this often discourages a true contact. Compare the feel between the Tranz and the French Link by wrapping them both around your upper arm and try to imagine how much more sensitive the tongue is. The Tranz Link is ergonomically designed for both comfort and communication. This design is a very popular dressage mouthpiece. It encourages a true contact and higher level of responsiveness. The lozenge is set on at an angle activating more feel over the tongue, so when a contact is taken, the rounded lozenge rolls down contouring smoothly over the tongue, utilizing feel but not abusing it, thereby enabling clearly defined aids to be given through the reins.

The ergonomically designed Tranz is shaped over the tongue, thereby taking up less room in the mouth and not interfering with the palate. The fitting of the Tranz (or any other lozenge) is critical - the lozenge is designed to sit centrally on the tongue and we do not want it sliding back and forth across the tongue. This bit does not shorten up in the mouth, unlike single jointed bits. In order to assess the size a bit measure is available on our website. When the Tranz is in situ the lips may touch the hole that the bit ring slides through, though not cover any part of it. When a contact is taken the holes will shift further away from the lips.

The ergonomically designed Tranz conforms to the horse's mouth anatomy. It is smoothly contoured over the tongue, giving even pressure and shifting the emphasis away from the outer edges where the horse is more sensitive, encouraging contact and response. The single jointed bit shoots forward in the mouth, shortening up, creating an acute angle (nutcracker), hitting the outer edges of the bars and excessively squeezing the outer edges of the tongue, thus creating the possibility of palate interference which will not encourage a true contact or outline.

http://www.neueschulebits.com/acatalog/Bitting_Advice.html
 

katiejaye

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[ QUOTE ]
i thought it wouldnt be poll pressure as it has a curb?

i was assuming that you rode off one rein (cant see where the second would go?) off the middle ring, the bottom bit was where the curb goes, and the top ring you attached to the cheek pieces?

hmmmmmmmmmmmm thats what i was confused as to the action, as i assumed due to the curb it was a lifting one?

[/ QUOTE ]

generally if you use the curb strap you ride with the rein on the bottom loop but you can also put the rein on the middle loop or have two reins. If you look on the website it has diagrams. Louis is very sensitive to any extension bellow the bit so he didn't really like it but I think it's a really good bit. I know a gag is supposed to be lifting but as he's sensitive to the action of the gag Louis tended to bring his head too low and overbend. You could borrow mine if you'd like to try it?
 

Tempi

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hmmmmmmm not what i need.

what do you suggest for Archie? Im wanting something with a lozenge mouth (prefereably) but stronger than his KK ultra for hacking out etc.

Hes a naughty little b*gger and very strong and knows it out hacking now. He gets really overbent and just sticks his head down and goes
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So i need something that will get his head off the floor
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but not too strong, as hes quite sensitve so i think anything major would freak him out.
 

Tempi

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thanx hun - i think if it makes louis overbend it will do the same to archie, im trying to find something not too strong to cure his overbending and p*ssing off out hacking
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Bess

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I've got the KK Sprenger version of it, I use it without the curb (it doesn't come with one, although I have one as a possible addition). I usually use it with the reins coming off the snaffle ring but put them on the bottom ring for jumpcross or xc.
 

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TBH its not that strong, the reaction is quicker, but the mouth piece is the same as my kk ultra snaffle which i ride winston in daily - i think thats why he likes it
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I tried riding out in a cheltenham gag and winston just bucked like a goodun
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What about a jointed pelham?
 

Tempi

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i think the metal curb would freak him out.......ive got a french link pelham i ride bloss in, but im not sure he'd like it.

I really just need something to get his head off the floor (charming horse that he is!!)

Now hes descovered that hacking is fun (and happily goes out on his own!) hes also decided hacking means being naughty, which is great, but hes a lot of horse ad it kills my arms!!
 

katiejaye

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I know you want a lozenge mouth piece but I have tried EVERY bit for Louis as he's the same as Archie is a sense that he's both very strong and very sensitive in his mouth. Anything with an extension above or bellow the bit makes Louis overbent and lowers his head. I have found the ONLY bit that he doesn't do this in is a loose ring waterford. While Louis can still be a little strong at times, he doesn't stress or overbend in it and seems very relaxed and it does give me more control.

The other bit I have used that Louis hasn't been overly sensitive too has been a Dr. Bristol.
 

Tempi

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they have a loose ring 15mm waterford on the NS site, is that the one you have?

Thing is hes overbent when hacking in his normal KK, so im not convinced a waterford would work either......
 

BBs

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My show horse wouldnt tollerate a curb either - i would use a gel cushion on it and he was happy with this.

Waterford may help, but i cant hold winston in that at all!
 

Tempi

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hmmmm hadnt thought of a gel cushion. Im not rushing out and buying anything just yet anyways as hes still only learning out hacking. Just thought id investigate some options
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katiejaye

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Yes that's the one. Mmmm it's a hard one as every horse reacts very differently so it's really just trial and error. If you call Heather at NS she is very helpful with suggestions. The good thing with the waterford is that at least it helps with downwards pulling as the more relaxed the horse is the looser the mouth piece is. It has helped us in that respect. The only other thing I can suggest is a myler bit, maybe something with a ported barrel, my friend uses one for her very big horse and he really likes it as it lifts his head and gives tongue relief

http://www.themylerbitbank.co.uk/#selecting
 

Alibear

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DR Bristol fab bits of kit and give you that extra Oi you sometimes need out hacking . Definitly does not encourage them to curl up either.
 

MillionDollar

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I really recommend the Myler Comfort Snaffle. I have the high wide one with hooks, and its made an unbelieveable difference both to my VERY strong cob (who does the exact same thing as Archie!) and my WB. Definitely worth a try
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This is mine-
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Scarlett

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yup - ditto _Claire_ I used one of these on my strong ISH out hacking and jumping, he had poll probs so couldnt be ridden in a gag at all. He settled in this and didnt take the P...

PG - I still have it (sold the horse) if you want to borrow it your more than welcome....
 

ecrozier

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Hmmm, v interested reading this, as I have been considering some of these bits too! I need some stronger brakes for XC on my arab, he is in a kk ultra snaffle the rest of the time, but like P_G's archie, is sensitive in the mouth yet strong as well! really just need something for XC, as the rest of the time I can stop him ok. Have used a hanging cheek in the past, worked quite well but don't really want him to shove his head between his knees and refuse to do anything but gallop, like he did the other day! Really don't want to go as strong as a pelham though. Interested in that jumper bit - can anyone tell me any more about that one?
 

pootler

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I think that one looks interesting.

Correct me if my logic is wrong but the NS universal bit is basically a 3 ring gag with 2 rings. It looks a little prettier but does exactly the same job. You could easily add a curb strap to a 3 ring, in fact I was having stopping problems when having a lesson with Lucy Thompson and she put a leather strap on a 3 ring in the same way.

I was umming and ahhing about buying one but have decided the 3 ring I use does exactly the same job and was 20 quid rather than 60.
 

Gentle_Warrior

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I have the same sort of problem, changed lad to a waterford and stops the heading staying down which is brill. But he still insists on bucking, so am going to try out the ns jumper in a waterford. As I know the waterford works but just need a little extra lift.
 

aran

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You could also try a mcguinnis (SP?)
We used to use it on horses that used to over-bend and lean on the bit. It was very effective and even sensitive horses seemed to be fine in it. It doesn't seem to be a well used bit but I definately like having it in the tack room.
 
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