adult novice - learning to ride on lazy horses

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calico

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I am a bit discouraged as a new rider ... riding school has given me lots of different horses but apart from a few, most are lazy and stubborn (instructors agree) and most of lesson seems to be spent kicking like mad and not getting anywhere. Instructor says, you can't learn to drive a car by getting into a Ferrari first time! I agree - but you can't learn on an old banger that keeps stalling either, can you?! If riding school horses are only responsive to effective riders (and I know they are) - then yes, I need to become more effective, but the problem is, how do you become effective if you just can't get the horse moving enough to progress?
 
But in fairness, aren't most riding school horses like this? They have to put up with so many people and kids who don't know what they are doing ... and how do you know which school has more responsive horses? Isn't the instructor right to say, if you aren't giving good instructions or sitting properly or whatever, the horse isn't going to listen to you? It makes sense - but then again, how can I learn what is a good use of leg or rein or whatever, if nothing I ever do makes any difference! And it's not just me - this is a group lesson (I think the instructor is good, by the way) but we all feel a bit dispirited ... as we all have the same problem with horses just not really reacting to us, seem totally unwilling to be ridden at all.
 
No not all riding schools are like this and the instructor is NOT a good instructor if she cant teach you to get the horse forwards without kicking.

Kicking causes the horse to tense its ribcage which effectively stops it being able to swing, therefore it cant swing out of the way of the hind leg. If the hingleg cant step under you cant go forwards = kicking is counter productive.

Instead she should be saying why wont the horse go forward, is the rider restricting it with hands/seat, is the saddle pinching and uncomfy, has it got its head up the arse of another horse going to slowly etc.

Next time try whacking your boot with your crop, or the sides of the menage anything to provide a stimulus for forward, and reward the horse when it goes! Make sure you're not hanging on to its mouth, or gripping with your bum/knees as this is telling him to stop.
 
I can imagine your frustration.

I learned to ride as a child in a good riding school on decent ponies, but once I went back to riding as an adult, all I got were lazy cobs. Riding lessons are very expensive and all I came away with afterwards were aching legs!

I changed to a private jumping lesson from a semi private flat work lesson hoping it would rev up the horse. On the day said horse was lame so I was given what was available. A massive TB! She was a fab ride and the instructor was amazing. I honestly learned more from that instructor and horse in an hour than I had previously in all my riding lessons.

From then on I used the same mare, but then the riding school was closed due to a serious accident. I tried again elsewhere and ended up again with the lazy cob so I bit the bullet and bought my own horse.

I think your only options are to speak to the yard and ask for a more forward horse. Maybe have a private lesson on the lunge to see if that helps the horse go forwards while saving your legs? If all else fails I would suggest looking else where.

I hope you work it out xx
 
If any horse is continually kicked, it will switch off & become dead to the leg. My philosophy on teaching riding is that you have to ride responsive horses. A beginner shouldn't be giving any aids at first. Just learning a balanced, independent seat. Either on lr, the lunge, or on a reliable horse who'll go on voice commands. Then, when the rider is balanced enough to learn light aids, they should do so, but with instructor helping. Eg rider asks with a gentle squeeze, if horse doesn't respond, instructor gives voice command, or has horse already on lunge & instructor asks horse to do what is required. Ditto for reins. Once the rider is established enough to give only light aids, they should be moved onto a more responsive horse who doesn't need assistance from the ground to respond. Take a look at someone like Carl hester riding. Do you see him kicking & yanking? No, of course not. So why teach a novice to do things the wrong way, only to have to then correct it further down the line. Imo riders should only progress to horses who are badly schooled when they are of a standard they can improve them.
I once taught a young girl who'd spent years at a rs like yours. She was awful, & had no confidence. Could barely walk/trot/canter & her jumping was everywhere. Two tiny jumps were a challenge. Within 6mnths she was flying round 3' courses & doing lateral work. Not because I'm amazing. Just because she spent 6mnths riding a responsive, well schooled pony that allowed her to concentrate on herself, rather than what the pony was or wasn't doing.
 
although I agree with the above- I would much rather put a novice/ learner on something that 'stalls' than something that disappears off into the next county!!!

Safety first at all times in my book I'm afraid.
 
Can your instructor get a tune out of these 'lazy horses'? If so then I would say you are stopping the horse going forwards eg. gripping with knees, pulling on reins, being generally unbalanced etc and so you need (probably private lessons) to improve to the point where you can getting them moving without having to constantly nag. If not then I would suggest a change of school.

My first car stalled at every set of lights - until I learned how to drive it! Not that I've got a ferrari mind =)
 
But even if it is op stopping the horse, bad aids, pulling mouth, being unbalanced etc any decent instructor should be picking up on that & putting it right.
 
trickivicki said:
although I agree with the above- I would much rather put a novice/ learner on something that 'stalls' than something that disappears off into the next county!!!

Safety first at all times in my book I'm afraid.
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This, I'm afraid.

There are some RS horses who are schoolmaster-y enough to put up with unbalanced, novice-y riders (and there's no shame in that, we all have to start somewhere) AND be responsive enough to bounce off the lightest (intentional) aid . . . but they are like hen's teeth. What you're describing is a problem many RSs have been trying to solve for many years. If a horse is sensitive and responsive enough to respond to light aids, then it will be too responsive and sensitive for your average beginner giving unintentional aids due to lack of balance and security.

I do, though, think that a decent RI should be able to adapt the lesson to both the horse AND the rider. I used to have a weekly lunge lesson (in addition to my other two general flatwork lessons) at my RS and my instructor used to have me ride Stan . . . bone idle and inclined to buck if the rider pushed at all, but extremely comfortable and never bucked on the lunge . . . half an hour with no stirrups on the lunge working on me and my position was hugely valuable and worked within Stan's limitations to my benefit.

P
 
I agree try a different RS, maybe somewhere that will give you lunge lessons and opportunities to improve your seat and understanding of the aids - PC kicks are not a real aid (however much they might come in handy :) )

Where are you based? maybe other HHO'ers can suggest RS in your area.
 
Agree with those who say safety first, if you got on a more responsive ride and lost your balance, accidentally caught his side hard with your heel, pulled back at the wrong point, sat down hard, you are far more likely to end up on the floor. There is a reason those horses are in a riding school. Most will go and nicely at that from my experience, you just have to learn how to ride them which may take some time (and those saying 'why is no one telling the rider where they are restricting the horse', novice riders are mainly concentrating on rising to the trot, keeping their balance and basic aids IME, not where their seat bones are at, what their shoulder alignment is doing etc. Too much to think about otherwise)
 
I bet responsive but safe rs horses would be far more common if kicking wasn't taught in the first place. And even with unresponsive, safe plods imo the instructor should get it moving from the ground with voice commands. In no other sport or activity do we teach bad habits deliberately. And I've never understood why if someone is still unbalanced enough to give unintentional aids, they'd be learning to give aids at all. In which case it doesn't matter if the horse is unresponsive to the aids. My honest opinion on teaching kicking to novices because its the only practical safe way, is either lazy or inexperienced instruction.
 
But even those responsive safe horses (and I know a couple of these) do not appreciate an accidental dig in the ribs or pull on the rein, therefore are not the best for novices who may do this. They're more intermediate horses imo. People at any level can give unintentional aids, anyone can get left behind or grip with a leg to sit a spook, both of which cause unintentional aids, but (hopefully) they're on horses who react within their ability. A novice wont necessarily have the ability to handle any reaction and may be scared by one, therefore surely at first they should be on horses who's reaction will be the minimum?
 
That's my point. At first, a quiet unresponsive horse until they have an independent seat & balance. Either on lr, lunge, or a horse going off voice commands. Then learn light aids on same unresponsive horse. It's irrelevant whether horse responds to those aids. The instructor can control the horse from the ground, again lr, lunge or voice. Eg rider asks correctly for trot at the same time instructor asks for trot from the ground. Once rider has mastered the correct aids, they move onto a horse responsive enough to not need the instructor issuing commands from the ground. And as for the accidental rein pulling, imo nobody should have reins till they are balanced enough not to accidently sock the horse.
 
The best solution is to spend a considerable amount of time on the lunge to develop an effective seat so you can then ride a responsive horse correctly, however I would imagine many people would find this a bit dull or unrewarding and would be unwilling to pay for long term lessons on the lunge.

I suppose the first thing a beginner would do on a responsive horse is lose their balance as the horse moved forwards and gob it in the mouth which is why RSs go for switched off plods.
 
It is frustrating but if you stick with it the more exciting horses will come. Too much too soon = shattered confidence and is potentially dangerous as others have pointed out.
Keep totting up hours in the saddle and develop a constructive relationship with your instructor - lots of lunge and core stability stuff helps!

Good luck!
 
Hi Calico. Well done for starting even though it's not all going quite to plan as yet. I could have written your post last year. I ended each lesson exhausted and developed great leg muscles. I used to joke the it might be easier if I could carry the ****** horse instead. After my first few months, I got very determined that I would get the big git I was being taught on, to do what I Wanted by hook or by crook! The day I finally achieved this was a major achievement for me :)
I finally earned the right to get on a more (extremely:eek: responsive horse after 6 months. Oh joy! My complaints prior to this were same as yours but had I been given this horse sooner it would have gone very badly as he was the total opposite to the Big Git in that he just wanted to go fast..all the time.

I like Littlelegs suggestion:- .lessons on the lunge until balance is sorted then start work on the rest. I wish I'd been taught this way. ( actuallly after 10 months I did end up being taught like this after I got totally disillusioned with what and how I was being taught) It might seem like a retrograde step but it will make a huge difference. :)
 
You cannot blame the "lazy horse", it is soley down to the teaching and the riding. Nearly every one of my clients complains their horse is too lazy but then suddenly I have it powering round the school You can't just kick kick and expect it to go forwards. Anyway, a responsive well schooled horse can become just as deadened by someone who over rides, so this isn't the answer either.

For a novice I agree about the lunge lessons. It is completely possible to find safe, sane horses that respond to lunging commands. Not only does this teach the rider balance and improves their seat, it also helps them understand how the instructor is using the timing of their aids to make the horse move forwards- WHEN to use a driving aid in relation to what the horse is doing. WHEN to become passive when the horse responds.

It is not easy to find riding school instructors who actually want to teach properly and correctly, that's the problem. Many I've seen lack experience themselves. The foundations are everything so maybe its worth seeing what else is out there.
 
I've been following all the replies with great interest thanks everyone. My instructor did suggest a different horse next lesson, who is very good in lunge lessons, I didn't know what that was but looked it up later! So I think that's the way we are going to go and I am glad you have all said stick with it, it will get better because that's what I need to hear. I must remind myself that it's going to take time. I'm in London, if anyone has recommendations for good riding schools.
 
I went through a similar low about riding after a couple of months too. It all seemed so much more complicated and difficult than I'd expected. Then there was the sluggish horse problems lol. I then decided that, no I would not give up on it, and started having two lessons a week. It will all get easier and clearer as you progress and the things that seemed do hard will suddenly seem very simple. My big problem was learning to canter. The harder I tried the worse I got. I found a website called Classical Dressage by Sue Morris. Her advice and explanations really helped me make sense of what I was doing. Best of luck and don't forget to post an update on your progress :)
 
Definately stick at it, the horses you will move up to eventually are worth the plods. I have a friend at the RS I work at who was also getting very demotivated by the cobby plod she rides but has ended up loving him to death now she's got the hang of him, and is now moving up to a more responsive ride. She fully agrees she is only just ready though, and didn't realise just how different he is to ride than her cob, therefore understands why she's not ridden him in the past.

I find there's a bit of a cycle when learning to ride with a lot of people, you start on the plods and find them really difficult and long for something faster, then when you've got the hang of them you move onto the more responsive horses and refine your aids more and start to learn about outlines etc., then after that start to WANT the plods again because it's rewarding to be able to get on a horse you used to struggle with and get a tune out of them.
 
You need to learn on a plod, and then move up to something else. However, many plods are plods because all they do all day is nose to tail around the school. If they went out hacking and school work it would be much better for them.
 
We have a riding school with a number of different types of horses some are kept soley for advanced riders and we have a number of these so called plods that are 110% safe however they can soon be woken up with a more advanced rider on board these horses arnt soft they learn very quickly if the person on top hasnt got a clue and they take the micheal putting as little effort in as they can get away with it. One in particular has BSJA points but on a beginners lesson shes bone idle, she is a firm favourite with clients as shes makes them feel safe but as they progress shes a lot more willing and forward going, as mentioned in a previous post hacking out does them the world of good we do this regularly and they all love it deffinatley puts a spring in their step. I believe the safer the better for beginners i am affraid. I've seen far to many accidents in other schools with unsuitable horses who panic or shoot off at the first sign of an unbalanced jockey.
 
debbielinder said:
I believe the safer the better for beginners i am affraid. I've seen far to many accidents in other schools with unsuitable horses who panic or shoot off at the first sign of an unbalanced jockey.
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Second that, some of the horses i've seen used in riding schools for beginners are truely shocking. I've seen clients come to us who have been run off with, bucked off etc. and are now scared of horses, who have only been riding for 2 months.
 
I definitely don't want that either, safety is more important to me than cantering off within a few weeks, so I will plod on, literally!
 
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