Advice about aggressive behaviour in the field

[Irishdraughtfan]

Hi I'd appreciate some advice. Yesterday i went to catch my gelding - he walked off when i got near him (this has only happened a couple of times in the year that i've owned him and recently i've been taking some treats in my hand to give to him when he's caught). I decided to go and get some treats and try again - but this time when i got near him, he made a run at me with his ears pinned back. I threw the headcollar and rope at him and shouted at him and he trotted away. I was a bit shaken, so went away for 10 mins to let my adredaline levels to come down, then i tried again - this time was worse! His field mate came up to me and as i was stroking him, my horse came towards me, but looking quite aggressive again (ears pinned back etc) and as i felt threatened by him I again I threw the rope at him to send him away. But this time as he turned away he kicked out!!!!! i was furious and chased him up the field, as this behaviour is certainly unacceptable, but also i do NOT want him to think that he can boss me around in that manner. I was quite shaken and just left him in the field until it was the evening - when all the horses are waiting at the gate to come in for the night and he was like a lamb again. He can be a dominant character at times - and i find it easy to deal with this when he's in hand etc, but when he's "free range" its a bit more difficult to know what to do! I am planning on buying a pressure and release halter to do some more in hand training with him, so that he sees me as the leader etc - but will this help with this behaviour in the field? Any advice about how to handle this please?!!

 

[tasteofchristmaschaos]

Leave the treats out - they are going to increase the agressive behaviour as your horse is trying to get it any way he can.

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

My young gelding is also going through another phase of this - he was famously bad for doing it last winter, before I got him and has had moments of it over the summer...I have put it down to a combination of hay-feeding having started in the field and he is bottom of the pecking order...and he is a youngster so is re-checking his boundaries...I have never given him treats or food bribes as he was well known for being aggressive near food before I got him..I also firmly send him away whenever he does this...it worked wonders with him over the summer...I also find with him that he is not benefitting from an accidental 'turn-away' (combination of me having extra work, spending time having to separate field sharers horse who is not having hay and having had a new loan pony for daughter in the last month) - so have re-started his groundwork to remind him what his manners are supposed to be like..when he's been through phases like this before, that's been good for him, plus he secretly likes the extra attention when I put him to work!
Hope that helps!

 

[Tilda]

My mare does this when she moves on to new grass and decides she'd rather just stay and eat than come and work. The way I deal with it is to make her keep moving (I am lucky as she just runs round me in a circle so I don't have to run!) and don't let her eat. Usually after 5-10 mins she realises she is not going to get away with it and gives in. It did once however take 40 minutes! The idea is that they learn you can control there legs so if he tries to stop chase him on, if he tries to change direction don't let him but make him change direction when you decide.

The signs to look for are lowering of the head, licking and chewing and ear locked on you then they are really listening and will let you catch them. My mare then doesn't bother to try it again for months!

I have also used it on another liveries pony who the YMs couldn't catch when her owners were on holiday.

Good luck it is very scary so make sure you keep him a reasonable distance from you so you don't get hurt x

 

[Irishdraughtfan]

Thankyou all for that advice. I know I shouldnt be using treats - i've always been very against them - but for some stupid reason I fell into the trap of thinking it was an easy option!!!!

I understand the priniciple of keeping him moving and not letting him relax and graze - however he's in quite a large field with a small herd of horses - I could be running up and down chasing him around quite a large area!!! Also i suppose i am a bit nervous that he might turn on me again if i did this - I suppose i should just have a long rope with me to send him away again?

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

I understand the priniciple of keeping him moving and not letting him relax and graze - however he's in quite a large field with a small herd of horses - I could be running up and down chasing him around quite a large area!!! Also i suppose i am a bit nervous that he might turn on me again if i did this - I suppose i should just have a long rope with me to send him away again?

Yes, you might have to chase him up and down a large area. Mine was with one other over the summer, in a 3-acre field...everything was settled nice til he went through another one of his 'phases' and one evening I literally had to chase him up and down the full length of the field, sending him away, keeping him on the move and decided that even if I gave myself a heart attack I would keep it up until he was ready to stop playing the silly game, to see it through...even though he was charging off when I sent him away and fly-bucking and generally playing silly beggars, he understood the 'language' and never challenged me as such (ie 'turned on me) - do keep a long rope to keep sending him away though..it's a very clear communication tool, (but not a weapon!!) in the end that evening, his body language was at the stage of 'I give up, you win' at which point I approached him with my own adrenaline firmly pushed down, sideways on and calmly caught him...didn't have any major problems with him after that until his next 'phase' where he had to be reminded but have never had such a lengthy session as that one since..believe me, when they realise you will not let them off the hook, they get tired of being run round quite quickly!
Do be careful if your field is now very muddy or slippy (what am i saying - is anyone's field not muddy right now?? lol) but do be prepared to have a showdown if that's what it takes to get through to him.
My youngster is not only young with all that entails but was left feral ungelded and unsocialised with other horses since traumatic forced weaning until 18 months so he developed completely self-preservation survival tactics ..so if it works with him...!

 

[Irishdraughtfan]

thanks again for that advice - yep i've got the resolve now!!!! My instinct yesterday was to chase him up the field as i was soooooo cross with him, if it happens again i will persevere with persuing him until he backs down. Thanks everyone.

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

thanks again for that advice - yep i've got the resolve now!!!! My instinct yesterday was to chase him up the field as i was soooooo cross with him, if it happens again i will persevere with persuing him until he backs down. Thanks everyone.

It does make for feeling cross (not to mention a bit shaky and threatened) ...but I do try to get a grip of that feeling when I do have to give chase. As soon as he's ready to 'turn in' I try to make sure to turn my adrenaline right down to match his newly humble attitude, so that the minute you get the behaviour you do want from him, you release him from the pressure you've been putting him under when you were sending away and give him a really clear message that 'Yes, that is the behaviour I do want and so I am releasing the pressure' - this can be hard to do when feeling cross (says she a well known crabby bunny!!!!)
I find if I have my plan for what to do worked out in advance, I can work more assertively than aggressively, because I am not taken by surprise and therefore feeling a bit caught off guard and therefore threatened...ie unlike the other morning when it was windy and my gelding flung his head up whilst I was brushing his back leg, spooked, I overreacted, and nearly fell over down the muddy bank which then actually caused him to run away from his own food...oops...not one of our finer moments!
Good luck and keep us posted!

 

[Irishdraughtfan]

Result !

Your advice worked a treat and very quickly. I approached him today and as soon as i got near, he was off! So i persued him, didnt let him stop or graze, and within 4 minutes of this, he was bored with this game, he turned in and started licking and chewing. I immediately dropped the pressure and approached him and he was happy to be caught. I stood with him for a minute nice and calmly, and he came in with me v nicely and was back to his usual placid self again - phew!!!!!

The livery yard had kindly arranged for him to be turned out in a smaller paddock with one small pony, which was great, as it meant i didnt have to run around 3 acres (which is on a steep hill) with a whole herd of excited horses cantering around me. So we'll keep him in this paddock for the rest of the week just to reinforce this change.

Thankyou once again for all your advice - it was really really helpful.

 

[Cobiau Cymreig Wyllt]

Marvellous! Well done...they do get bored quite quick once they know you're serious! Soon as you get anything remotely similar, do it again and he'll remember even quicker how boring it is as a game!!!

 

[Irishdraughtfan]

I will do! Also am awaiting arrival of "Be Nice" Halter, then i can do some more groundwork with him. Thanks again

 

[teddyt]

He didnt want to be caught so as he would do with another horse that he didnt want in his personal space, he did the same to you- tried to chase you away. You did the right thing by chasing him back.

 

[ISHdaft]

i have been having the same sort of problem with my mare the now only she's running at me ears pinned back the minute i try get her in from the field, she done this with a friend of mines who is more experianced with horses than i am and the minute she came at her my friend threw the head collar at her and she soon changed her attitude and caught no bother however i would like to resolve this problem sooner than later as dont want anyone getting injured because of her... i was getting mixed opinions of what i should do and whats the root... pain and dominance ect.

Should i try the same thing chasing her away when she does this as well?

 

[mandwhy]

Good advice above, yes Ishdaft I would do the same sort of thing, my mare is dominant and has previously tried to chase me, lunge at me to bite, turn to kick etc, although it is basically all for show. It all gets nipped in the bud quickly. I go in with a lunge whip sometimes just in case as she can be quite extreme and has been taught that she can boss humans around basically, a lot of mares catch on to this! I'll happily throw things at her too, buckets etc!

There's always someone who thinks a horse is in pain when it is being a dominant arse.... Now my mare does get worse when she is stomachy but she is essentially just a mare with a bad attitude.

 

[ISHdaft]

Thanks very much i did have the idea of going in with a crop ive already had soneone say im ignoring her signs and she is in pain however me and my friends have pretty much eliminated pain out the equation... had my girl 2 years and this is the first shes done this definately need it nipped in the bud not having her threatening people especially when i have a kid who enjoys riding her as well as me thanks very much! x

 

[Horselover No1]

I'm in the same situation with my mare, when catching her (if you can) she comes flying at you ears pined back and lunges at you, she's even bitten.. you don't know what she's going to do from the next!

 

[LD&S]

Thankyou all for that advice. I know I shouldnt be using treats - i've always been very against them - but for some stupid reason I fell into the trap of thinking it was an easy option!!!!

I understand the priniciple of keeping him moving and not letting him relax and graze - however he's in quite a large field with a small herd of horses - I could be running up and down chasing him around quite a large area!!! Also i suppose i am a bit nervous that he might turn on me again if i did this - I suppose i should just have a long rope with me to send him away again?

To be fair even in a fairly small area if a horse really doesn't want to be caught you could still end up walking miles.

 

[Sandstone1]

I wouldn't use the be nice halter, they are not great and if not used properly can cause more problems. The dually is much better but you need to know about pressure and release and use it properly.

 

[Landcruiser]

A plain rope halter is best of all in my experience. Light on the head, can keep it on under a bridle for convenience, and no worries about when it releases. Dually is very heavy and awkward.
Sounds like you are on the right track OP. In your first post, it was clear to the reader that your horse was successfully training you to leave him alone - pinned ears, running off, kicking out - and each time it worked like a dream for him! Keeping at him - walking him down - is a pretty foolproof method, I had exactly the same with my gelding when I first had him. It took several sessions, the first was about 40 mins of him tearing round squealing but eventually he got the idea and has been perfect to catch for the last 8 years now. You need to make sure you don't have a time constraint, consider these as schooling sessions and maybe release him again once caught rather than ride. And don't take the pinned ears personally, he's being dominant but you have to stand your ground, make yourself bigger and scarier than him, but stay safe. Good luck!

 

[Damnation]

My last mare was like this. INCREDIBLY dominant.

I used to bring a whip to catch her, not to hit her with (although in that situation I wouldn't hesitate. A choice between her bum and my face, I know what I would choose!!!) but to use it to make myself bigger (I am a midget at 5ft 3).

Whenever she came at me threatningly, I put the whip above my head and beat my coat with my hand to make a big noise and drive her out of my space with body language. Basically if she was going to treat me like another horse, I was going to respond with similar body language, but make it bigger.

It was a bit of a battle of wills, but it got to the point where I didn't need the whip anymore and if she tried it would step towards her with arm in the air and she would back off and was fine.

By the end before I lost her, she was an absolute dobbin. The first 18 months of ownership was fraught with challenges though as she was dominant over everything!

It did look bizarre to onlookers though

 

[Merrymoles]

Mine does this to some extent, not because he doesn't want to be caught (because he loves working, coming in etc) but because he's a bit thick and doesn't always appreciate that I am not another horse. He also tries to groom me when I groom him and often snakes his neck at me when I am leading. When I first got him, he was a biter and I really had to be aware of his body language at all times, or the snaking or threatening would become an actual bite.

Squaring up to him, looking him straight in the eye and challenging (and in the worse cases waving my arms about) has always stopped the behaviour but I am lucky and don't have to chase him around the field to do it. However, agree with most of the suggestions above and am glad you have already had some success. Don't let your guard down though and be ready to persist if challenged again.

My horse is now at the stage where there is no biting and a simple "oi" is enough to stop unwanted behaviour. He is one of the most mouthy horses I have ever known and will still follow me around licking my coat when I am poo picking but now knows better than to push his luck with the "boss mare". We play "what's the time Mr Wolf" when poo picking and if he gets too close to me or my fellow sharer, we will turn around and say "boo" until he gets bored and wanders away. Despite these issues, he is an affectionate fool really but being bitten hurts like hell so it was the first issue I tackled. Strangely, he rarely bites his field companion now either - must have realised he's bottom of our little pecking order

 

[Leonajlt]

Good advice above, yes Ishdaft I would do the same sort of thing, my mare is dominant and has previously tried to chase me, lunge at me to bite, turn to kick etc, although it is basically all for show. It all gets nipped in the bud quickly. I go in with a lunge whip sometimes just in case as she can be quite extreme and has been taught that she can boss humans around basically, a lot of mares catch on to this! I'll happily throw things at her too, buckets etc!

There's always someone who thinks a horse is in pain when it is being a dominant arse.... Now my mare does get worse when she is stomachy but she is essentially just a mare with a bad attitude.

My almost 3yo mare is very dominant and pushy which I am not used to after having a very laid back gelding. She’s very affectionate and would follow me to the ends of the earth but doesn’t know when to give it a rest. If I’m doing anything in the field that’s not showing her 100% of my attention she will run rings around me and buck. Never close enough to actually hit me but it’s still nerve wracking having never experienced this behaviour before. I’ve been told oh it’s because she loves you, she’s happy, she’s excited, she’s just playing... but I’d rather she didn’t She also cannot bare for me to touch another horse.

 

[AmyMay]

My almost 3yo mare is very dominant and pushy which I am not used to after having a very laid back gelding. She’s very affectionate and would follow me to the ends of the earth but doesn’t know when to give it a rest. If I’m doing anything in the field that’s not showing her 100% of my attention she will run rings around me and buck. Never close enough to actually hit me but it’s still nerve wracking having never experienced this behaviour before. I’ve been told oh it’s because she loves you, she’s happy, she’s excited, she’s just playing... but I’d rather she didn’t She also cannot bare for me to touch another horse.

I think you’re anthrofomoligising…

 

[Leonajlt]

Do you mean anthropomorphising? In what way? My horse runs in circles around me in the field until I direct my attention towards her and will chase away any other horse that comes near me... so I don’t think I’ve suggested anything unhorse like or predominantly human

 

[Arzada]

If I’m doing anything in the field that’s not showing her 100% of my attention she will run rings around me and buck. Never close enough to actually hit me but it’s still nerve wracking having never experienced this behaviour before. I’ve been told oh it’s because she loves you, she’s happy, she’s excited, she’s just playing... but I’d rather she didn’t

So send her away from you. And yes pay attention to her, in the keep yourself safe sense not in the love/cuddle sense, so that you know where she is and what she's doing and repeat sending away if necessary.