Advice for exercises to try with a seriously needy horse!

L

LizzieRC1313

Well-Known Member
Joined
3 April 2012
Messages
323
Visit site
As you may have seen from another of my posts, my horse has a tendency to canter off/race if another horse canters off or spooks on a hack and mine will not stop. I also struggle to slow him down/stop if we have a canter on a hack. Currently he's in a pelham which I've decided is completely the wrong bit for him, but he is SO strong (very irish draught-ish but we don't know his breeding) so I'm thinking I might try a waterford cheltenham gag instead, which I know is strong but once he's off in the pelham he's oblivious to me and other competent riders he has done it with.

What I would like to know if anyone has advice/or experience building up a stronger bond with your horse so they have more confidence in you and so they realise you're boss? D is bottom of the herd in the field (turned out with 3 others), and definitely has a lot of respect for the other horses. My dressage instructor thinks we should try and get him to gain confidence from us, because she think at the moment he gets all his confidence from other horses and this is why he is so needy and why he is so desperate to keep up with the others. He once cantered off with me in a field and as soon as the other horses went out of view he stopped.

Would really like to try and improve this so any advice would be appreciated!

Cake all round.
 
Sorry, I don't know the answer to your bitting question, but maybe you can get some help from this other thread where Pip_dog had a sometimes unstoppable horse and considered trying a pelham or waterford Pelham. To waterford or not
Since the question about what a NS waterford elevator was, was not answered, I think I've found it NS waterford elevator .

I found this interesting to read The Horse Bit Bank - The Bits and their Action: Cheeks, Mouthpieces, Doubles.


About the bonding, I like the advices about simply spending more time with your horse, sometimes just observing their body language, sometimes grooming them more than usual, learn how to give your horse a massage (perhaps also stretching), because such basic things can strengthen the bond between a human and their horse.
I've also heard that desensitisation training, where you teach your horse that everything from plastic bags, weird sounding things, large tarpaulin lying on the ground, pigs, Shetland ponies, or whatever else that you can think of that your horse isn't used to, can also help to strengthen the bond.

If you're interested in trying horse massage, for instance, towards the bottom of this page there is some good written tips about how owners can massage their own horse Health Benefits of Horse Massage, here's another page with good tips about horse massage Horse Massage Therapy and I also found this YouTube video How to Massage a Horse .

Random horse smiley, only because I like smileys
82519_sleighsmileyf[1].gif

:)
 
Hi thanks for your reply.

I'm less worried about the bit thing because tbh I have a feeling if he wants to go he will go regardless of what bit he's in.

I do spend quite a lot of time grooming him etc but I will try a bit of the horse massage thanks!

I might start walking him out in hand eventually and do a bit of desensitisation with him and see if that help build some confidence in us. I wonder whether hacking out alone more often might help him.
 
I had the same issues with my very chunky cob x (not fat)!

He is not totally fixed but I found lots of in hand work, teaching him I was good to be with, walking out in hand, lots of stoppping, relaxing time, even down roads we hack on, lorries, trotters the whole lot. I then took the plunge and changed him to a loose ring snaffle. I tried all sorts of bits and he was just as bad in everything I tried.

We do not school, as we clash badly so everything is hacking (he is also 20)!. I found the milder the bit I used the more settled he was. He is still strong and if he does decide to go, like with any horse he will, but generally he is better. I even do sponspred rides in a snaffle now. He is one to try and catch up in front and I do struggle sometimes, bte the fight tends to be less tantrummy if that makes sense.

I also found riding with longer stirrups gave me a more secure seat (he has a nasty habit of bucking and squealing when really off his head !) which then made me relax.

Also rightly or wrongly, after a good canter/gallop I give him and extra strong mint, whilst on him, not after every one, but I found this help with bending his neck, and bringing him back to me. One tap on the shoulder if not totally distracted and he stops and turn his head. Not tried in faster than a walk I must add!

Not the BHS way in any form !!! but it works for me
 
Definitely think really good quality ground work is the answer. Personally I would recommend using an Intelligent Horsemanship (ie Monty Roberts / Kelly Marks style) Recommended Associate. I have lessons with one and she is brilliant. It is all about how you can be with your horse so that he sees you as the leader. You would probably only need a couple of sessions to set you up for a great improvement in your relationship. Good luck! :)
 
I know exactly what you mean about horse not looking to you for confidence- mine is the same and its the first time I have ever experienced this with any of my horses and I don't like it! Horse is fine out in company but ghastly on his own and has to have a field companion. Nice idea from one poster about leading out in hand - if I did that he'd take off at the slightest thing and he is far too bulky to stop. So I'm trying lots of ground work at home and have decied to try restarting the horse in a 'natural' sort of way -think Pirelli or Natural Horsemanship. The horse's early days ( I found out from first owner) meant he was always with other horses - tethered together, so he has zero confidence in humans despite being a real gent on the ground and happy to be groomed etc. I need to get into his brain but just don't know what to suggest. I'll watch this thread with interest.
 
How often do you ride? In most of the cases where I've worked with an issue like this, I've found that there is huge benefit in the rider riding the horse more often. If you don't ride every day, can you start to do so, even if it's only for 5 or 10 minutes in the arena some days? If you only go out for half an hour, can you increase the length of time that you ride for? There is a theory that 'horses need a job to do', and as long as your horse is fit and well (and not sore), then I would think there is a strong chance that he would be more likely to listen to you (as opposed to the other horses) if you spend more time riding together.
I hope this helps a little,
Sue
 
I agree that you need to spend more time with the horse and that groundwork is a good way to get him to take notice of you.
As for the bit, I suggest trying a PeeWee, so long as you have good hands, it is not a harsh bit but it is very effective if it needs to be, without a lot of pulling on the rider's part. You will also be able to turn the horse very well in order to stop.
 
Hi guys, thank you so much for all those who have replied and I'm really interested in everything suggested.

I ride fairly often and I school for quite a long time when I school. Like I said, 99% of the time he's fine in the school and is coming along nicely now, Altho this has really been a long hard slog and he's our (share with my mum) first horse and probably we could of done with more of a school master as it has been a bit of the blind leading the blind schooling wise but with lots of good instruction we are getting there. He jumps nicely too Altho again he thinks he knows best and will charge at jumps once he 'locks on' as such. However again this is improving and I plan to start having jumping lessons come April. He gets plenty of variety and I don't feel he really needs more work, although I AM thinking that he could possibly do to be hacked out alone more often and I am going to ask my YO to take him out to assess what she thinks of him.

Like HappyHooves says, if mine wants to go on the ground I have no hope of stopping him so I would like to start working with him on the ground in the school. Would really love to hear people's opinions of NH recommended associates. Has this helped? I'd like to know the good and bad. I have one of Kelly marks books but I found it hard to put in practice. Also how expensive are they? (PM if you'd prefer).

The problem with D is that we have no idea about his history, there's nothing on his passport and his previous owner didnt know/ embellished the Story as she went along. So if he's had issues in his past we have no clue!! We don't even know how old he is Altho estimate around 11/12.

I just don't think he sees us as boss even tho we are fairly strict with him and I think we need to rewire his brain ( and very possibly ours too!!). He is impossible to lunge, even our very very experienced YO said he was dangerous to lunge (kicks out, refuses to go out etc) last summer we had to order him a new made to order saddle so did loads of lunging and we cracked it but unless we do it every few days we are back to square one!!

I need to add here though that he is an angel on the ground - lovely to groom, lead in/out lovely etc etc. I'm pretty much listing all his issues here!

Again thank you for all your help! I really appreciate it and hope it helps other people with peculiar needy horses too!!
 
I agree with the going back to basics. I asked about the waterford pelham on here. And even tho I still contemplate it. I went back to loose ring snaffle. And she is too more settled than when she was in her hideous Cheltenham gag!
 
I replied briefly to your other thread about this problem but feel I should expand as I have had similar 'needy issues'

I have an ex race horse mare who I bought in march. When I bought her she was five and had never been hacked out apart from during her racing career, so in big groups, just to the gallops etc.. No hacking alone. She had severe separation anxiety when in the field even if the other horse is just over the fence. She would not hack alone, refused to leave the yard etc.. If hacking in company and the horse went out of sight for even a second she would panic.

She didn't see me as a leader at all and being passed from pillar to post I can understand why she didn't look to me, a human, for comfort, security etc... So I did a lot of natural horsemanship on the ground with her (using a rope halter and long rope which I always use now for handling) we did a lot of desensitisation to the rope, learning to back up, turn hind quarters, turn forehand all with cues. We also did a lot of leading over, through, round scary objects and she was just ace at it and because she grew in confidence in herself and her abilities her confidence grew in me as I was the 'catalyst' so to speak in the situation for her success (she always licks and chews after doing something right, shows me she's thinking and she knows).

We also did a lot of hacking in hand out alone, doing the same route then building up, then progressing to getting on near the end of the ride and each time getting on earlier and earlier. This process has taken months but the difference in her confidence is substantial and today we completed our first ever hack from the yard and back again, out for a good couple of hours alone in snow, meeting buses and tractors and grass tracks and she didn't put a foot wrong or nap once because the building blocks necessary had been put in place. She now is also comfortable when hacking with others to be held back when they carry on etc.. We have also hacked out with another horse to a field where we can school so that you are in company but you are working individually,meaning the horse has to listen to you, we have found this very helpful!

I'm not suggesting you necessarily do this however it may be something to consider also, I switched my girl to bitless as the bit always seemed to 'block' her, irritate her when she was stressed and escalate her tantrums so to speak. I found by removing the bit she listened to me a hell of a lot more!

Sorry for rambling on but I hope anything I have said helps at least a little. Good luck!
 
LizzieRC1313 said:
Hi thanks for your reply.

I'm less worried about the bit thing because tbh I have a feeling if he wants to go he will go regardless of what bit he's in.

I do spend quite a lot of time grooming him etc but I will try a bit of the horse massage thanks!

I might start walking him out in hand eventually and do a bit of desensitisation with him and see if that help build some confidence in us. I wonder whether hacking out alone more often might help him.
Click to expand...

Remember the good old group riding lessons, you would all ride round in walk and the first person would then proceed to canter around to the back of the pack? Could you do this in the school with someone else in there? Teaching him its ok to hold back, but in a calmer environment. Also, if he is a git, try using a paste calmer for riding, just to keep him that little bit more relaxed, once he has got into the relaxed mindset you can start to wean him off the calmer. As you seem to have grasped, the bit is not the fix, it's the focus he needs. Do you school on hacks, to stop my friends mare bolting I used to school constantly, if she was just walking without a care in the world she would bolt, but working in an outline, flexing, shoulder in etc you could walk her across an open field that you had cantered across the day before.
 
ImmyS said:
I replied briefly to your other thread about this problem but feel I should expand as I have had similar 'needy issues'

I have an ex race horse mare who I bought in march. When I bought her she was five and had never been hacked out apart from during her racing career, so in big groups, just to the gallops etc.. No hacking alone. She had severe separation anxiety when in the field even if the other horse is just over the fence. She would not hack alone, refused to leave the yard etc.. If hacking in company and the horse went out of sight for even a second she would panic.

She didn't see me as a leader at all and being passed from pillar to post I can understand why she didn't look to me, a human, for comfort, security etc... So I did a lot of natural horsemanship on the ground with her (using a rope halter and long rope which I always use now for handling) we did a lot of desensitisation to the rope, learning to back up, turn hind quarters, turn forehand all with cues. We also did a lot of leading over, through, round scary objects and she was just ace at it and because she grew in confidence in herself and her abilities her confidence grew in me as I was the 'catalyst' so to speak in the situation for her success (she always licks and chews after doing something right, shows me she's thinking and she knows).

We also did a lot of hacking in hand out alone, doing the same route then building up, then progressing to getting on near the end of the ride and each time getting on earlier and earlier. This process has taken months but the difference in her confidence is substantial and today we completed our first ever hack from the yard and back again, out for a good couple of hours alone in snow, meeting buses and tractors and grass tracks and she didn't put a foot wrong or nap once because the building blocks necessary had been put in place. She now is also comfortable when hacking with others to be held back when they carry on etc.. We have also hacked out with another horse to a field where we can school so that you are in company but you are working individually,meaning the horse has to listen to you, we have found this very helpful!

I'm not suggesting you necessarily do this however it may be something to consider also, I switched my girl to bitless as the bit always seemed to 'block' her, irritate her when she was stressed and escalate her tantrums so to speak. I found by removing the bit she listened to me a hell of a lot more!

Sorry for rambling on but I hope anything I have said helps at least a little. Good luck!
Click to expand...


Hi ImmyS, thank you so much for your reply. I have now pretty much decided the way forward is with plenty of groundwork and am going to discuss this with my instructor who specialises in groundwork, and if he feels he can't help then I will look into having some instruction from Intelligent horsemanship recommended associates. (If anyone can recommend one in the warwickshire/solihull area let me know!). It sounds like my boy has similar issues to your mare, but not for such clear cut reasons. It sounds as if you have done really well with yours and if I could get D listening and trusting me that much I'd be really proud.

Queenbee, weirdly he is absolutely chilled with horses cantering up behing him/past him in the school! He's lovely. He only really hots up in very specific situations, although saying that I've yet to take him on a fun ride or do much competing with him. His previous owner did say that she thought he would be too strong for us to hunt and I'm fairly sure she was right. Also I'm not sure he is so bad he needs a calmer as he is a good boy 90% of the time, and I don't stuggle to hold him on 80% of our hacks. He has a hacky buddy that he's really good with, but again if we have a canter, we use said hacky buddy as a stopping aid :eek: . He will walk down the main canter track we use, and we do, often, but if we have a canter or if he did decide he wanted to b***** off with me, then he would. And I wouldn't be able to stop :rolleyes:


Again thank you for all your replies, I've found it really helpful to get lots of different perspectives on this problem. Just hope that I can do something to fix or at least improve the problem!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top