Advice from those with experience of pony mares (13hh) please!!

[Mugsgame]

I have aquired a lovely 13hh riding pony mare (Bwlch Zephr x Westacre Concerto) to accompany my retired pony, and the aim is to breed from her this year or next.

It has just occured to me that I have no experience in breeding smaller mares, and several things are worrying me! For a start, I would like to cover her with a stallion I know well, but her is, um, rather well endowed (!!) and would certainly not cover her naturally... We could collect from him with very few problems, and he is very well mannered. BUT! She is so fine, I am less than happy about scanning her - does anyone have any advice in this situation? Her business area is not all that different in size to my 11.2hh!

I am certain we could collect and inseminate her as required, and could tease her until she goes off, tease her when next season would be due etc, but how to people check for twinning and other problems in smaller mares?

Any advice or experience would be great - I am probably making mountains out of molehills but it is bothering me!!

 

[the watcher]

Lovely breeding!

I'm sure her size will not present enormous problems in respect of scanning, although it is possibly slightly less popular amongst pony breeders than horse breeder there must be enough pony mares scanned for it to be possible and done quite regularly

 

[holiday]

I would personally speak to your vet re scanning, usually a lady vet will scan with no problems and some of the little mares are quite roomy inside for the vet mostly 13hh are not too bad to scan its the smaller mares that the vets struggle with. My view would be have a word and go on their advise.

We scan plenty of smaller mares but do try to pick the right vet!!!!! As we have a lady and a gent vet!!!

She sounds lovely breeding!!!!

 

[dreamscometrue]

There shouldn't be a problem with scanning her. My vet has scanned mine and other Welsh Section A's with no problems. As long as a careful approach is taken problems shouldn't occur and as has already been said carefully chose your vet in this case as I know some don't like to scan the smaller mares!

 

[Rosehip]

Oooo smashing breeding!!! My little one has just come back from stud to a stallion with Westacre Concerto bloodlines You shouldnt have a problem re scanning, Seri is a very petite 12.2 and has been rectalled by a male vet and scanned by a female vet with no problems at all, the female vet said for a maiden she wasnt too tight, and was quite roomy! Think thats a good thing - sounds a bit pervy to me! haha!
Have a word with your vet if you are concerned, but Im sure everything will be fine.
Out of interest, what height/build is the prospective stallion? Seri was put to a full up 13.2 with no problems, he has also covered a teeny 11.2 sec A this year also with no problems. Good luck, and piccys please!! x

 

[Mugsgame]

Thank you for all of your excellent advice - I probably am worrying about nothing (ish)! A friend does a lot of our breeding vet work - he has got huge forearms, and my mind plays back memories from years ago at work when we lost a (TB) mare when she was accidentally torn by a very experienced vet with large arms.

I think I will speak to him, then probably enlist the help of a female vet from our large practice nearby... But I bet she would rather not do it! The stallion is 14.2hh Welsh D, I would like to add bone to her as I think she is very light, she is also quite uprightin the shoulder and he is very good at putting movent into his youngsters and opening the shoulder right up. Perfect choice for me and her really, but **cringes** I am not kidding about the size of his manhood, even stud vets have been shocked by it in the past!

She would carry his weight no trouble... but... no!! He covers mares his own size and mares that are bigger, but not her!!

My other thoughts were to send her to stud where she can be covered naturally, I figured at a stud woth pony stallions and mares they would be more used to the size issue!!

Will try and get some pics from my phone - only head shots at the moment!!

 

[Rosehip]

It depends where you are, but I can thoroughly recommend the stud (and stallion!) I used for Seri. If you look for Greenbarrow Mr Smee it will come up with his stud and pedigree etc. He is used on TB mares to throw hacks etc, and although he is westacre/rotherwood lines, he does seem to add bone to his foals. If your girl is as petite as you say, and a maiden to boot, maybe her 1st foal would be better going to a taller but similar weighted stallion rather than a D? I dont know, Im not as experienced as others on this board who will give you better advice...I know I wouldnt want to put Seri to a 14.2 for her 1st foal, but then she is 2in smaller than your girly... x

 

[Mugsgame]

Ooh - he looks lovely! Good luck with that one, I bet you are very excited!!

My little lady isn't a maiden though - she bred a foal (two I think!) several years ago, so not too worried about that, just my own ignorance in managing the more petite lady!! I have decided that I would like to stick to a closed breed for my first foal from her - I wouldn't mind a section B or similar, but my current choice has himself been bred to B's in the past and had some lovely results...

Also... my OH thinks I am mental thinking about breeding one at this time in the season - considering all my other ladies are "done and dusted" (fingers crossed) now, first one due in Feb, last one due at the end of April - am I just extending my own foal watch to beyond my capacity??!!! lol

 

[holiday]

Im sure whatever choice you make it will be stunning!!! Weve used our b stallion on a variety of mares and they have all been beautiful!!!! The D's do cross well and make some super stock!!!!

 

[Rosehip]

Ahh, I just assumed she was maiden - sorry!!! I say go for it then, you obv have the breeding knowledge, but I can understand you are more aprehensive about the little lady! lol! Ah, dont listen to OH, you will have plenty of time to rest between the end of April and mid may! haha! Any piccs of the stallion? x

 

[Mugsgame]

Ahh, I just assumed she was maiden - sorry!!! I say go for it then, you obv have the breeding knowledge, but I can understand you are more aprehensive about the little lady! lol! Ah, dont listen to OH, you will have plenty of time to rest between the end of April and mid may! haha! Any piccs of the stallion? x

Ah yes - the rest between end April and the pony!!! Never going to happen is it?! Makes me feel quite ill thinking about it now - I work full time too!! Eeek! Remind me why we do this again?!

Anyway, this is the man in question http://www.sporthorse-data.com/d?i=10602481 - his son Herald scored 9.2 for eventing in the futurity, all of his offspring have excellent, loose movement, and (obviously) he'll add bone. I have seen two youngsters out of nice section B mares by him that are super looking, shame the owner hasn't registered them wpcs.

Holiday - I looked you up, it is a shame you are a bit far away, else I would have been interested in your Sec B! Could have been a perfect solution but logistically cant think if it would work!!

My Monday morning call to the vet hospital for a petite vet with good breeding experience is still on then... shame those two don't often go into a sentence together really!!!!! lol

 

[Marchell]

Scanning your mare shouldn't really be a problem and if you are thinking of AI anyway then that obviously involves the insertion of the forearm but obviously in a different area . I assume your intended stallion does collect for A.I.?

We have had scanned Nantcol Lady Julia with no problems and she is much smaller.

We also used our Graded Sec D stallion (now sadly decesed) on our Culross Maid Of Honour mare. The combination produced two very different sister but both of really good quality and no doubt performers of the future.

Good luck

 

[FlorenceBassey]

Ive got the stallion you where hoping to use's half brother!! he's gelded though

 

[FlorenceBassey]

This is him
(sorry its huge)

 

[holiday]

He looks super, I will just say again, scanning smaller mares can be a problem being a pony breeder and you are right to question and double question your vet, we scan ponies from 11hh to 14.2hh and it does depend on the mare herself and of course knowing those breeding lines she could? be tiny inside, she could also be quite sharp to scan, the insemination is not a problem at all whatever size.

We have all our mares scanned as most are to outside stallions via AI, a couple of the 13hh ponies can be scanned by the gent vet but a couple of the finer cant at all!!!!

Do double check!!!!!! We are scanning on average 15 pony mares a year of different types, alongside the horses. Plus any walk in ponies, there has been a little Barkway pony into Harry who is tiny but our gent vet can scan her no problems but I have a 13.2hh show pony who he cant it really does depend on the vet size and the pony size inside!!!!!! We have also got a smaller door behind for the stocks for little people. It is certainly not something to be dismissive of!!!

 

[Mugsgame]

Ive got the stallion you where hoping to use's half brother!! he's gelded though

Lovely! Who is he (is he related via the dam or sire?!) He looks very kind, obviously runs in the family!

Holiday - thank you for your reassurance! Something I had thought of but forgot to mention on here was the human safety aspect! While she is very good natured, I am more than certain she will object to the scanning, and to be honest I am fairly sure she can kick as well as the rest of them, not to mention the extremely odd angle vet's arm will be positioned in if she does decide to wriggle. I would like to think inseminating her would be less of a problem if we have done our jobs correctly!

I will have some coversations today and if I am still worried will think about sending her away this year - like you say, you (and other stud who are experienced in this) have the correct facilities - and I'm not happy to cut corners just because she is small!!

 

[Marchell]

Mugsgame - according to the stallions stud card he is not available by AI or maybe he has been collected from since the stud card was posted?

 

[Mugsgame]

Mugsgame - according to the stallions stud card he is not available by AI or maybe he has been collected from since the stud card was posted?

Ah! Well spotted! He isn't actually available via AI at the moment, but we can collect from him for these purposes without any problems, as long as we have an in season mare to hand - which we will have - her!!

Still in two minds whether to just get her close and send her away for natural covering for a few days until she is OV checked. Grrr. Decisions decisions!!!

 

[FlorenceBassey]

He's by Derwen Royal Express, so related on the sire's side, He's called Mynmyned Starlight Express.