Advice needed - loan horse being sold illegally

[anyinfoneeded]

I am a regular user of hho, however due to the sensitive nature of what i'm about to post, i feel anonymity would be best so i apologise in advance!

I know someone who is trying to sell a horse that isn't theirs to sell. They had it on a loan with a view to buy and i recently discovered an advert for the horse offering it for sale.

I am extremely concerned about this on many a level, what also bothers me is this person isn't very pleasant and i am concerned about them trying to get back at me if they found out it was me who let the real owners know what was going on.

I also suspect that the real owners have no idea where their horse is or has been for the last few years and i don't know how worried they may be.

I also need to find out information about the person whose horse it is yet am unsure how to go about it.

If anyone has any advice for me on who i can contact to help me or anything please, please pm me. I know that if this was my horse and this happened i would be distraught. I've also posted in NL.



Thanks alot!

 

[nuffield]

the passport and any regisration papers need to be in the sellers name, so i cant see how the loanee can sell the horse without.
You could try ringing the phone number on the advert. it could be the actual owner of the horse who is selling it.
I'm sure others can think up good ideas about what to do, sorry I cant be of more help really.

 

[Cuffey]

Ask for advice from Thames Valley Horsewatch
tvhorsewatch@btinternet.com

 

[neondwarf]

This is very stange, I too am a regular user with a similar query except we are in 'posession' of a pony that was for sale by the loanee not the owner. Are you anywhere near Somerset by any chance? PM me if needs be.

 

[spotsmum]

get someone to ring the ad if they would recognise your voice. Ask lots of questions, including about its passport and how long they have owned it etc.Get the person to write all answers down, and ring from a private no. Could be the owner or could be that they have bought the horse from its owner and can legally sell it.

 

[xxxbettyboopxxx]

k, be calm and logical about it and this I would do asap. If anyone knows the rightful owner tell them. If that fails then find out if your area has a local horse team or an equine liason officer.
Contact the vet that treats this equine, ask if they know the actual owner. if it isnt up for much then a few of you chip in and then it can be given back to rightful owner? If all else fails where abouts are you? I may know of some contacts inthat area that can help you.

 

[anyinfoneeded]

Unfortunately, I don't know who the original owner is or how I can contact them. The horse originated from a female dealer in or around the Swindon area, I know they have a website too - but I don't know what it is.

This is why I need the help of HHOers so I can find this out. This is where I would like to start, once I find the horse's owner, I think things may be a little easier... Such is the theory!

 

[T_K]

At the end of the day, they are committing a crime. Call the Police. I'm sure there's more than just you that know this horse is only on loan to these people so why would they suspect you?

 

[The Virgin Dubble]

[ QUOTE ]
the passport and any regisration papers need to be in the sellers name, so i cant see how the loanee can sell the horse without.


[/ QUOTE ]
Not if the 'seller' only has the horse for a short time, or is a dealer.

There is actually what I would class as a loophole in the passport law, whereby if you have only been in possesion of a horse for a specified period of time, or have bought it to sell on, you are not legally bound to have your name added to the passport as an owner.

I only know this because we had a horse on loan with a view to buy, and he was totally unsuitable, and the owners wouldn't or couldn't have him back, and told us to sell him for them.
We did this, and gave the buyer our name and address, and we got a letter back from the passport issuers stating that had we owned him for X amount of time, we would have to pay a registration fee, but had we had him less than that, we wouldn't need to.
Again, it highlights what an ass the passport law is, because those dealers who take on loan horses, and sell them on quickly, have no comeback, re the passport laws.

In answer to the OP, if you don't know who the legal owner of this horse, how do you know that they are unaware that the horse is being sold? Could it be possible that, like in our case, the horse has proved unsuitable, and the owner has asked them to sell it on?

I would definitely ask for advice from Horsewatch, as you would feel awful if this person is acting illegally, but it might be an idea to try and gather as much info as possible ie the horse's registered name, so that HW could perhaps contact the PIA's and subsequently contact the registered owner to see if the sale is above board or not.

Good luck.

 

[Cuffey]

From DEFRA Q&A in horse tracing http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/id-move/horses/horses_qa.htm

Q17. What shall I do if the passport requires updating with change of address or new ownership details?
A17. Changes of ownership or change of permanent address of owner must be notified to the organisation that has issued the passport. The PIO may require that the passport be returned for updating. Similarly, the death of a horse should also be notified to the PIO. Both of the above should be notified to the relevant PIO within 30 days of occurrence
Dubs--totally agree a pathway for the unscrupulous.
The only way round this is for it to be mandatory for seller to inform the PIO that the horse is sold as well as new owner registering new details. When selling a car you have to tell DVLA.

 

[The Virgin Dubble]

I have just found the letter I received. Here is the direct quote from it:

<font color="blue"> The new owners of the above named animal have contacted us in order to register the change of ownership and comply with the horse passport legislation. We notice that you did not officially register your ownership. If you owned the horse for more than 30 days then this is a breech of the horse passport legislation. </font>

I am betting that most of the unscrupulous dealers are aware of this, hence they 'rehome for life', then pack them off to the nearest horse sale within days.

 

[Patches]

[ QUOTE ]
From DEFRA Q&amp;A in horse tracing http://www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/id-move/horses/horses_qa.htm

Q17. What shall I do if the passport requires updating with change of address or new ownership details?
A17. Changes of ownership or change of permanent address of owner must be notified to the organisation that has issued the passport. The PIO may require that the passport be returned for updating. Similarly, the death of a horse should also be notified to the PIO. Both of the above should be notified to the relevant PIO within 30 days of occurrence
Dubs--totally agree a pathway for the unscrupulous.
The only way round this is for it to be mandatory for seller to inform the PIO that the horse is sold as well as new owner registering new details. When selling a car you have to tell DVLA.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I may be in trouble then.....I just realised the other day, when it came time to have Oliver's booster jab, that we haven't sent his passport off. I would have sworn my life away that I had. We've owned him two years in May. Whoops!

 

[SpruceRI]

[ QUOTE ]
the passport and any regisration papers need to be in the sellers name, so i cant see how the loanee can sell the horse without..

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone can sell a horse without a passport - it's illegal. But they do.

What's easier though is for the loaner to apply for a new passport for the horse. Then the buyer will never know that the horse doesn't belong to them

Anyways - if you're buying a horse and paying in cash, how many times do you ask for ID from the person you're buying from?

They can sign the passport in the OP's name and pack it off with the new owner - then disappear with their cash.

The first the 'old' owner will know is when they track their horse down via the PIO.

 

[anyinfoneeded]

thanks for all your replies and input. I haven't had much success tracking the owner down though have had some helpful pushes in a direction!

I would like to point out though that i do know for a fact she hadn't bought the horse, 1 she doesn't (and didn't) have the funds to and 2 she boasted about getting him for free and how much he was worth.

If anyone can help me find a dealer in swindon please pm me so i can make enquiries and get the horse back to his rightful owner.

Thanks!

 

[Rollin]

If the dealer is in Swindon I would contact Thames valley horsewatch. They can do all the rining and checking anon. then you won't be implicated. If all is above board no one will have a problem.

 

[jhoward]

or get a friend to call, and arrange to see said horse, and make sure they view the passort,.. that may give you some clues,. but also other questions asked etc may help.

other option it try the police aswell, as if the loaner is trying to sell it will at some point get classed as theft.