Advice needed on how to keep hold...

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barkinghorse

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William can't go out every day, and when he does I stuggle to keep hold of him.
He is 16.3hh, grows to about 18hh, head straight up and when leading him out he leaps up into the air, twist, sets his neck and goes! He also has no respect for my space and has mown me down in the past.
Have tried alsorts, but don't want to use a chiffney incase he still gets away from me and damages himself.
Have tried carrying a whip, using his bridle, all sorts of new fangled headcollars but nothing works. Even the farrier has tried taking him for me (bless him) but he is too clever and his spinning knocks you off balance.
I have to have hat gloves and body protector to turn him out.
Y.O is just over 5" 3 and tells me to let him take himself for safety reasons, as he will canter up the track and then turn round and come back to you, and happily walk by you side. This is not an option i want to explore as he will never learn.
He's just a very excited boy but has got to learn. Summertime is a doddle.
Jo
PS turning him round doesn't work either, it just makes him worse.
 
I would put the rope round his nose to start with. Keep making him stand after a few strides and make him wait. If he starts to get strong then stop him dead and make him walk backwards. Make sure you use a firm voice to back up your aids. Dont be afraid to get tough with him!
 
when one of mine (only 15.2 but strong and determined) gets like this I feed her before I move her, so she gets breakfast before being turned out, and a nibble from a bucket in the field before bringing in..and if I carry the bucket too there is no way she will leave my side..I can cut this down to just a carrot in the middle of the day, and sometimes we will manage with nothing at all - but at feed times it is safest to take the edge off her first.
 
Have tried the rope but to no avail, he's a shiverer, so backing up at the best of times is difficult, and he just leaps up onto his back legs!! there's no malice there, just hysterical excitement. He does it when i'm on him too and when i tell him off, it's almost a "ooh sorry mum i forgot you were up there" if it wasn't so bloody dangerous it would be funny!
Jo
 
It can be very, very intimidating when a big horse acts like this can't it?

Have you had a stallion chain on him? Or a controller head collar, with a soft through rope, so that if you do loose him the rope will slip through, so reduce the risk of damage.

Ultimately though, it sounds as if you could do with turnout every day. If you don't have this option, are there any yards that you could move too?
 
Dually headcollar.

My youngster was exactly the same and got wise to the Chifney anyway and wouldn't let me put in on. The Dually works a treat and he just thinks a conventional headcollar. He would walk sweetly and then just suddenly charges off with no regard to the handler at all. This headcollar just gives me a chance to pull him back and 9/10 works & he is much improved now.
 
I don't feel experienced enough to suggest anything but I'd definatly invest in a long rope, 12ft or 22ft (or if nothing else just a lunge line though they are more fidly to use) So if he gets away from you you can use some leverage to get him back, short lead ropes are useless. Hope everything gets sorted, best of luck...

EC
 
i have to say i would second a chifney, that or the old fasioned rope through mouth and a smack on the chest as he tries to get past you.
also using a lunge line so that he can get so far but you can pull him up by digging your heels in!!
 
we have a large 16.3 horse at our yard who does exactly the same thing,im afraid the answer was a chiffney, better to have control than he gets loose and could cause himself or someone else injury,you only need put pressure on if he starts going up or pulling you.
 
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the only problem with a longer line is that if the horse does still get away, it is more likely to get tangled up.

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Yes I agree - We certainly never lead babies on long lines, prefering to keep them as close to us as possible. It reduces the risk of injury to the person, and ensures better control generally. I do think that the same applies to 'grown up's' too.
 
We are in the middle of buying a farm, so don't really want to move him and then move him again..
plus the fact that i have to get him out of this and he shouldn't be doing it in the first place!!
Once we move, he will be out 24/7, but at the moment we only get 4 days a week.
Jo
 
Chifney with a headcollar over the top, normal rope on headcollar shorter (1-2ft long) rope on Chifney so he wont tread on it whilst running away, I think that is the only way
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This could be pretty dangerous for you - even though he doesn't mean it, a large, very excitable horse can easily hurt someone. Is there no way he could be turned out everyday in a paddock close to his stable? Even if it is a small mud patch, it would be better than nothing for him. I hate chifneys and much prefer pressure halters provided they are used correctly. You need to work him in a pressure halter with a longish line so he understands that when he is with you, it is his comfort zone and when he tries to bomb off, he puts himself under pressure. This won't happen over night, but with work and patience, he will learn. TBH, your best bet would be to try and get him turned out every day.
 
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We are in the middle of buying a farm, so don't really want to move him and then move him again..
plus the fact that i have to get him out of this and he shouldn't be doing it in the first place!!


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No he shouldn't be doing it - but machines they aint.
 
You do not want to let the horse take its self to the field, as if you start that you will never, be able to lead, My 17.2 that I used to have was outright dangerous to lead, put a chiffney on people might not agree but its like any bit only as servere as the hands on the end of it, I used a chiffney and moved to a yard that had more turnout and it made a huge diffrence, I prefer to use a chiffney rather than handler, horse, or some bystander getting hurt.
 
I have one who can be not as bad as your but can pee off. On mine i use not a whole bridle but everything except nose band and then i clip led rein through bit and attach to oppisite ring of bit ( so rope acts like a curb chain). Then I walk him out with a very tight hold and if he starts my elbow goes into his neck, so if he does buck kick i'm not in range of back end. Also if you allow them there neck the can pee off very easy. I talk to him all the time in calm tone.
I also carry apples and carrots and sometimes i give and sometimes i don't, but he never know when
I know it's not what you want to hear but if mine has box rest I have to use chiffeny and it's a short hard pull and he fine. A chiffeny in the correct hand is a brilliant tool and if you use it wisely, it will allow you to led out your horse and then drop down to bridle again.
Get someone who you trust to show you how to use it, having a horse leaping and f**king about is very dangerous and you will get hurt or he'll do something to himself!!
He using his size against you
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good luck i hope you get something sorted
 
I think you need to address the problem rather than attack it from the angle of the solution - if that makes sense.
Why is he excited? Why is he easier in summer (because he is less hungry and more laid back, or because he is out 24/7 and you are thereby avoiding the problem) If you lead out with another horse is he better. Is he left behind when other are led out and wants to be with them.
You need to think about the causes and try to avoid the factors that set him off, rather than planning stronger and stronger restraints when all you may need is a simple change of management
 
I think it's a case of "yey i'm off to play" It's not a food issue as he is feed before being turned out, and when he's out he rarely grazes. he's very alert but not nervous, plays all the time, going from one horse to the other playing and then is also the Watcher of the herd. In summer, in the mornings he is always stood up whilst all the other are flat out.
I think it's got to be something to do with a herd instinct, as he doesn't like to come out of the field first, we always leave him 2nd or 3rd to last, otherwise we have the same problem coming back down the track!
Jo
 
I only turn him out when the yard is quiet, and all the gates can be closed.
He goes out in the sand paddock twice a day with his "buddy" for a play but it's still "operation William" to get him there!
Jo
 
Why dont you try and do join up with him, then he will learn that you are the leader (boss) and not to mess you around, def suggest a dually!!!
 
oddly we have this with fred who is pure tb and very highly strung...

On his own a nightmare.....

With my old git horse, absolute treasure. The thought of taking them both up together filled me with dread but it's so much calmer...

Coming in however.....one at a time!
 
I'd advise lots of groundwork - although obviously not being able to back up makes it a bit difficult. It can still be done though, and preparation work in the school can make leading the worst horse a more pleasant job.

My TB, although not as bad, can get severely bad manners when he's in the mood - especially after periods of box rest or being kept in. 20 mins in the school reminding him that he's the horse and I'm the owner, tends to get it back in his head a bit.

Although saying that - I would far rather a horse respecting a chifney than taking the p*ss in a headcollar - safer all round.
My friend's 17.2hh can be a spooky and strong b*gger to lead in the winter - if he has his chifney on, he's a nicer horse to be around. At the end of the day, if he jumped on top of someone midspook, they wouldn't come off very well, so a chifney is a safety precaution.
 
Just a further thought in case the Chiffney doesn't work (but hope it does!) - a friend has a youngster who is already over 16hh, and he used to be really difficult to lead. Finally in desperation they called in Richard Maxwell, who did a lot of work with a pressure halter with him, and also taught them how to manage him with the pressure halter - result, reformed horse! They are really thrilled, but the problem is that sessions like that don't come cheap ...
 
Just a thought but do you have a school, you could lunge him first, get rid of any excess energy and teach a few manners and establish a few ground lines, then turn out using chiffney as suggested (with short rope)?
 
Sorry but not read all the posts thoroughly but I would suggest that this is a case of a lack of manners. (no disrespect to you) The perfect solution to this situation would be to do some NH or parelli with him.
Probably half of you are now thinking `boring` but I went on a 2 day course about 5 years ago and it did wonders for my bargy mare. It taught her to respect my space and gave her some manners.
With Roxy, my horse now, she was a little pushy and very exciteable when I first got her and although I didn`t do all the games with her, I just used the basic ideas that I needed to keep the respect. She is a DWB mw and is just under 17hh, so I needed control. Now, anyone can turn her out, lead her, change rugs etc. and she has the manners of a saint.
It is worth looking into. If you are not into it, then just do the basic games with your horse to instill some respect. Someone else suggested join-up, also a good idea, but I`ve never done it.
Parelli does work and you don`t have to drill your horse with it as it works very quickly, if done properly.
Before anyone goes off on one and starts thinking that I am a nerd, it has a place with horses and some people love it and some hate it. A lot of top riders use some form of it to earn respect from their horses.
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I hope that I have given you something that you can work with. Good luck as he is a big horse to take the p*ss and you need to get back the respect quickly for your own safety as well as his and others around you.
 
chain lead rope with the chain over his nose, only tighten when you need to. Worked on my old cob with no manners and the need to tank off often. He is now led with a headcollar and leadrope with the leadrope loose and he just walks beside you ...
 
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