Advice needed!!!

[Amys_Babies]

This is going to be very long sorry but i need some good but friendly (not critism) advice please. So if anyone has spare time to read through this and help me out i would be very thankful as am so wound up i could cry!

As many know Buddy is a 2 year old (3 next week) TB x Welsh Sec D gelding. I had got to the stage of backing him and walking around the school a few times. But was having a few behavourial problems with Buddy towards my mum so went back to groundwork with my mum giving him commands. With the weather we have been having haven't done much with him this past week. I lunged him yesterday and he spooked on the lunge and went galloping off i managed to told him until he turned on himself and the rope slipped out hand leaving me a nice robe burn. I managed to get him back and no harm was done but it was so unlike him.

He is also having black gewy stuff on his back legs and went to wash it off yesterday and he tried to kick me. He has never kicked out ever before! I managed to clean it off after dodgying a few kicks and am going to try and clean everything tomorrow.

Right today i went to brush him and he tried kicking out at me and even double barrelled at me!!! I think he thinks it is some kind of game or something but i don't know how to correct this behaviour. There is a lot of birds which fly through the stables and one girl mentioned today that he had been bucking at the flies...is this normal.

He also seems really hyped up, he throws his head about and kicks out with front legs at people. He also seems to turn his backside onto people a lot which i am quite worrid about because sooner or later he is going to hurt someone.

So what do i do? Could it be a health problem he doesn't seem ill just naughty, would it be worth calling a vet? Or is it just him growing up and trying it on...if so how do i stop him? Also could be because mares being in season if so how to i calm him down?

I really need some help guys im not going to do any proper work with him or back him again until he has calmed down.

Please help me!

 

[saddlesore]

Hi Amy *hug* that sounds awful! I think you're right, it doesnt just sound like naughtiness and i think the mares being in season probably isnt helping! Can you move him to another field where he is further away from the mares? Is he quite dominant with the horses he i turned out with? Perhaps he sees them as 'his' mares and feels he needs to protect them and he is becoming very anxious (shown as agression) when he is being taken away? What age was he gelded?
Sorry lots of questions i know!

 

[imyourstalker]

Its probably a little bit of this and that. He MIGHT be trying it on and playing games with you? Maybe someone out to check his back? I don't really know in your situation...but I do know one thing! WEAR GLOVES! Lol!

I hate rope burn!

Good luck with him!

 

[Ginn]

What are you feeding him? Who/what is he turned out with? How long have you been spending on the backing and groundwork and has he had any breaks from it (total breaks, not just a week off here and another there)? Have you got someone with oodles of experience, calmness and confidence helping you?

I'd suggest cutting out all feed, 24/7 turnout with a couple of other horses, someone really good to help you on the ground (no disrespect to your mum but she needs to know exactly what she is doing, especially when it goes wrong, and ooze confidence with it which it sounds like she doesn't) and you need absolute consistency, no slacking off if the weather is bad etc. If he goes to kick you get a piece of blue pipe and smack him with it (the noise and shock should have the desired effect, don't hit him hard as you shouldn't need to) with a very loud growl - he must respect you and he must be disciplined, get it right now and you'll be laughing. Go right back to basics, don't progress until he is 110% on the ground doing the more basic things and don't be afraid to get some professional help - it will help you, give you confidence and make sure the foundations are absolutely solid.

 

[Amys_Babies]

Thanks for replying saddlesore,

There is three mixed fields so wherever he goes he is going to be with mares and with YO being ill its not like can come to some special arrangement. There was another horse in there who he use to fight alot with but he has been moved, since he has gone Buddy has started kicking. I don't turn him out or bring him in myself but no one has mentioned any problems apart from fact he likes to be last one out the field. As for being taken away...can i ask for you to explain what you mean as i have no plans. On his passport he is down as being gelded at one.

 

[Amys_Babies]

Thanks for replying, i am tempted to call vet out but if it is him just being naughty then will be a call out fee for no reason. Would anyone else suggest calling vet out?

 

[Amys_Babies]

He is currently on alfa a, build up mix and pony nuts he has always been on this never had any problems. He is turned out with both mares and geldings as all fields are mixed. He has been working 3 days a week a bit of lunging and backing never had any problems. Sometimes have changed it to just leading him and taking him new places on yard and had him going over poles, never had any problems with any work apart from playing up with mum.

There is not the option on yard for 24/7 turnout as all horses come in at night plus not sure if is something i would want to do.

The YO was helping me out but as she has turned very ill she is unable to help out at the moment. People had suggested on here to give him a break and then go back to basics which is what i had planned on doing but didnt get off to go start yesterday.

 

[Fairynuff]

So far Gin's advice is spot on-I agree with her 100%

. Also,, wear gloves and a hat when working him -better safe than sorry

. M.
PS, I would wait before calling out vet, I think its more of a 'lets see how far I can take them for a ride' and if handled properly he will give up trying to be No 1.

 

[Spyda]

Hi, I don't know how much of the AlfaA and Build Up nuts you are feeding but these are both high calorie/energy feeds. Maybe he's growing less this year (than he was previously) so he's using less energy in that way which is causing a bit of an excess. Could you try cutting back until you are simply feeding more of the pony cubes or even switch to a Balancer instead? Try it for a month and see if that helps reduce his energy levels and settles him a bit. If it makes no difference you can reintroduce your old feeding system before the winter sets in. Just a thought.

 

[Rueysmum]

I hate to say this, but that sounds like far too much hard feed for a rising 3 year old.

He sounds like he really is far too full of himself. If I were you I would get an instructor in to help you - someone who is experienced with youngsters. It sounds like you are getting far too ahead of yourself. He is nowhere near ready to back IMHO.

The black gunk down his legs will be coming from his sheath. It sounds as if he has a build up of smegma which could be irritating him, hence the kicking out at the flies.

If I were you I really would get some professional help with him asap as he's at an age where you could inadvertently ruin him.

 

[Ginn]

Cut the feed - I can't give mine alfa a as she can be a totally horrid beast sometimes so I stay well clear. At this time of year, especially with the rain/sun/rain/sun atm, the grass will be a lot richer than it looks and you deffo shouldn't need to add anything to it. Mines 3/4 tb and gets a handful (and I mean a handful, it is a token more than anything else!) of happyhoof after work and thats it! And she is 4 (so still growing) and doing atleast 3 10 mile hacks a week, 1 or 2 shorter ones and 1 or 2 40 min schooling sessions a week!! As you have to bring him in then if he needs the extra bulk then give adlib hay (I wouldn't use haylage in your situation as its a lot richer ime then bog average hay). Keep the pony nuts and use them as the sweetner, after work put a handful in a bucket and let him have that. Depending on how bolshy he is you could also carry some in your pocket as a reward during work (I always have polo's on me but then mine knows full well that I won't be pushed around so she accepts they are a reward and not there for her benefit!)

With youngsters it really boils down to the person who is handling them, knowing when to get help, being confident and very, very firm with them and being utterly consistent - variation with work is fine but you need to do it very regularly or turn them away and just do the bare minimum. Can you not get a good instructor (someone who has lots of experience with babies and/or "problem" horses and is calm, firm and confident) to help until your YO is back on her feet. I think given your problems if you are going to turn away then you should wait until there is some improvement so it is on a positive note - and on that subject, always, always, always finnish on a positive note and NEVER get stressed and loose your calm with him if he is a pig while working - walk away, breath, count to 10 and go back to him, go back to something easy, get a good note out of him and finnish. You'll need to learn to read him, sometimes you will find that you are best to keep things short, sweet and easy and other days you will find that actually he would benefit from asking him some questions, making him work, and making him think a bit.

From what you've posted I'd get an instructor up, work him for a few weeks to get the manners and discipline restablished and to get your confidence and sanity back (been there, done that, got the t-shirt and it makes such a difference) and then turn him away, without any feed, until end of Aug/start of Sept at the very earliest. And when I say work we are looking at doing something everyday, aim for 5 days of proper educational work and on the 2 off days (ideally not consecutive) its manners, manners, manners so still essentially "work" but a different sort, whenever he is handled it must be with discipline in mind and as he gets better you'll find yourself having to do less and less on these off days. Also if you know you are not going to be consistent throughout the winter then aim for 2-4 weeks of good work now (even if it is the most basic basics) and turn away until evenings start to draw out next year - I got caught out by trying to fit mine in last autumn, lost the consistency and ran into problems resulting in me loosing my confidence quite a bit but actually the "holiday" has done her the world of good and my instructor has been there every step of the way since she came back into work to make sure my confidence is where it needs to be and she isn't allowed to get away with anything and now we are a much, much stronger partnership!

 

[scotsmare]

Amy, that's a shame that he's not getting any better. I'd personally just re-establish the lunging and then turn him away for a bit. He is very young and could maybe do with a couple of months holiday & bring him back in the autumn. Don't be in a rush to get him backed, I know you thought he was ready but sounds like he's telling you otherwise.