Advice of his feet please

Montys_Mum

Montys_Mum

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Id like to know peoples opinions on my horses feet as i dont really know much about correct shoeing and the things that are wrong with my horses feet. He is a TB with the typical feet of a TB (long and flat). He does have sensitive soles which seem to bruise easily. I would like some help on how to stregthen his feet and make them the best i can. He is fed dengie Healthy Hooves (2-3 scoops per day + 1 scoop of pasture mix and ad lib forage per day)

Front Left (side view)
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Front Left (front view)
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Front left (back view)
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Back Left (side view)
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Front view
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Back view
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back_left_heel.jpg


If these are any help . .
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Sorry for the big post and all the pictures :o
 
Ive had him for 5 years now and i have had the same farrier for him for the 5 years. He had really long feet when i got him that were nearly turning upwards with rolled toes on the back. He also overreaches a bit. He has heart bars of the front to give him more support as he went lame throughout summer and they were recommened.
 
Hi MontysMum... Do you have pics from when you first got him? Have you ever had a second opinion on his hooves before now? I'm no expert but his feet don't look right to me. What do you do with him?
 
right im absolutely no expert.
heels appear underrun, toes long. has farrier been rasping right up the top of the hoof?
Does he always stand with back feet like that?
The shoes are well set back and supporting heel, but weak caudal hoof as expected.

again I am NO expert, just saying what I (think I) can see
 
I am no expert but the fact that they were bad 5 years ago is, in my opinion, of little relevance to how they should be now, they have been able to completely grow several times in that period. The feet all appear to be very long in the toe with contracted heels, the shoes being so wide are an attempt to help but without the toe being kept shorter they will continue to contract. The overeaching is also a sign of too long in the toe behind with probably his fronts being unbalanced.

A change of diet would be the first thing I would do to reduce the sugars that will help improve his feet, looking for a different farrier that will not just say tbs have flat feet would be the next.
 
I dont have any pics of him at the start but when i first got him my farrier said it would take a few shoeings to get him right but i still dont think he is. The fact that the last time he was shod he went foot sore for 2 weeks was a warning sign but im not sure what to do. He was sound after being shod this time (shod on tuesday, pics taken today). I do mainly hacking, unaff showjumping and potentially dressage this year. ive had quite a few problems with him being lame (bruised soles, absess and times where nobody has an idea why hes lame). How would i know if a farrier was any better when i look for a new one because i was always led to believe this farrier was very good especially with TB's. :confused:
What should i feed to help his feet?
 
Hes completly sound now but he went lame last year and i had two vets out to see him and they thought he had degenerative joing disease in his hocks even though when i rode i could feel it was his hips that werent right (as it had happened before) so after a few months on danilon i had the chiro out who told me his pelvis was slightly 'out' and twisted. He came sound after that but unfortunatly got an absess straight after which he came sound from after a few weeks and is back to normal now.
 
Finding a new farrier is never easy but I think the fact that tbs are labelled as if somehow having different feet to other horses rather odd, I had a tb last year in my yard that had fantastic feet and he was shod as any other horse would be.

I would ask around, have a look at other horses in the area and see who your vet recommends. The thread that ran recently started by cptrayes has some, not all are, photos of good shoeing which makes interesting reading also.

Diet is important, if you could reduce the sugars in his diet he would be less likely to suffer from footiness and would grow stronger horn.
 
Well tbh i agree that my horse has senstive feet and is a wimp and yes tb's are known for having flat feet so thats a given but he is a highly recommended farrier even by people on this forum.
 
Montys_Mum said:
Well tbh i agree that my horse has senstive feet and is a wimp and yes tb's are known for having flat feet so thats a given but he is a highly recommended farrier even by people on this forum.
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I can sympathise with the long toe, collaspsed heel, flat feet and sensitive soles senario, I have been there with both my TB's. I have ditched as much sugar as I can out of the feeds....although comes to a point when horse refuses to eat her feed because there is no cubes in her dinner!!!! But even that hasn't affected her feet since I made what appeared to be a very radical change.

So definatly support the reduce the sugar side, you will be surprised how much horse feed has in and reducing it helps all aspects of your horse from feet to attitude (even if you have never had a problem)
 
I recommend the barefoot diet:

100gm micronised linseed meal [Equimins or Charnwood milling]
1kg or less of non molassed Sugar Beet Pulp
1 good hand-full of Dengie non molassed chaff [lo alfa] this makes the SBP more appetising and provided alternative fibre sources.
60 to 80 gms of minerals, Pro Hoof or Equimins advance or similar
Soak all haylage or feed good hay, minimise green grass [sugars]

Exercise, walk on the roads and tracks every day, build up from twenty mins to forty mins per day, this will encourage blood circulation.

Next time due to being shod, provided new diet is established, consider removing hind shoes.
In order to promote heel growth, in the long run, the toes need to be trimmed rather than the heels supported, this will be evidenced in the digital cushion which will develop. It all takes time, and patience.
Ideally you would have the forage [forageplus] analysed and the minerals adjusted as required.
 
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The shoes are way to big, I see he has left room for the heels to grow, but thats like putting a size 9 shoe on a size 6 person and hoping it will fit in 6 weeks! IMHO I think his feet look terrible, I wouldn't let the farrier near my horse if he left her feet like that! But that is just my humble opinion.
 
Hi I am new on here, I mainly lurk but felt I wanted to say how necessary it is to keep the toe short ESP in Tbs and the heels otherwise they become under run and you end up with the problem you have that no amount of feed will correct only proper shoeing, toes short. Good luck maybe see what another farrier would suggest.
 
It's not a bad job but more should be taken off the toes.
Shoes are not too big. Can't ever please people can you, the owners are either going to moan that the shoes are coming off so horses are shod penny on penny and then they are "too short!" and now when there is a decent size shoe offering lots of support it's "too big"

The toe length needs to be addressed but since your horse is now sound I think that speaks for itself.
 
Montys_Mum said:
Well tbh i agree that my horse has senstive feet and is a wimp and yes tb's are known for having flat feet so thats a given but he is a highly recommended farrier even by people on this forum.
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That Tb's have poor, flat or weak feet is nothing but an old wives tale! Tb's are often fed diets very high in sugar and starch the opposite of which is needed to grow good hooves.
The basic barefoot diet has been outlined above i'd get him on it straight away, i'd either restrict his grazing or turn out overnight and soak his hay, by treating him as a laminitic you'll most likely reduce the sole sensitivity and start growing healthier feet.
Personally i'd be seeking either a trimmer or a farrier experienced in managing hardworking barefoot horses but at the very least please get a second opinion from another farrier, it makes no difference how well recommended your current one is, your horses opinion is the only one you need to be listening to and judging by those pictures (pictures can only give a partial story though) your horse disagrees with the farriers ideas on feet. His feet are very under run, he's almost on the bulbs of his heels!
 
Whilst a good diet can help with the condition of the feet; the correct hoof care must be applied to give your horse's feet a chance to do the work you are demanding of him.

Looking at the photos your horse has flares, long toes and under run heels and this can result over time in inadequate support to the fetlock and excess strain on tendons and ligaments.

Have a look at the link below showing the feet of an Off the track TB and how they can be improved.

http://www.thenaturalhoof.co.uk/6.html

TBs are unfailry labelled as having flat weak feet - they can have brilliant feet if they have the correct trim and shoes (if shoes are your thing).

I would advise you get an opinion of a few other farriers.

Let us know how you get on.
 
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I am very much learning after having alot of trouble with my last Farrier. My new one is trying to educate me.

I see flare. My TB had three big (curved out on the sides) hooves (like your horse's) and one small hoof when the new Farrier first saw her. The sacked farrier had called the small hoof a 'club' hoof, where as the new farrier said that the three big ones were flared. He filed the flare off and after one trim, she had four matching hooves! No more sore footedness, no more big chips coming off when the ground was hard and one happy TB. The summer before, I had had to have her shod (she's retired) as she was so sore on the hard ground.

The shoes, while supporting the under-run heels well - are too wide and are encouraging flare. My new Farrier has told me several times that the horn grows to meet the metal.

I would be temped to take the shoes off. My other mare had to have this happen, it has been a hard road but her hooves are so much better now (she was much worse than your horse to start with).
 
That's the best shod horse I have seen on here. the shoe placement is excellent, the subtleties of shoeing some flatter feet have been beautifully covered on this job, although the toe looks long the shoe has been set back to avoid over thining the dorsal wall. the heels are low but so is the angle of P3 in the capsule. If you draw a line down at the back of the foot the heels are perfectly covered. The shoe bisects the center of the foot perfectly. Shoeing a horse with feet like that is a skill that not all farriers have but yours does and looking at it he wont be cheap either :D
 
The problem with only addressing the trim or shoeing by keeping toes short etc. is that unless the diet is fairly suitable for that particular horse the hooves will continue to try to flare and run forward because the lamina connection is weakened. Get the diet right and the lamina are healthy with a strong connection and the risk of soring the horse (trimming too short) reduces and trimming is no longer a constant battle against the hooves.
 
I think he has extraordinarily, like unbelieveably, big feet at the bottom for the coronet band size at the top. I would not be happy.

If you took this horse barefoot it would take a complete diet change (possibly no grass at all and as a minimum no grass during daytime) and quite a while of patience, walking on flat surfaces (possibly in hand) and care and attention but I could absolutely guarantee you that he would have a foot an absolute minimum of half an inch smaller in diameter in a year's time.

I'll eat any hat you choose if I am not right.
 
Oh dear. There is a whole lot wrong with these feet I'm afraid, and they need to be helped very quickly or more problems will arise. I seriously doubt that he's truely sound currently, even though he may appear to be so to you.

Without going into loads of detail, I would advise you to contact your vets and ask them who the best farrier is in your area and get a second opinion as a first resort.

If you are open to alternative ideas, by far the most enlightening thing you could do is get a reputable barefoot practitioner to come and tell you face to face what is going on and how you should proceed.

In fact, do both, then you have all the information to hand and can decide what is best for you and your horse - it will be money well spent, but do it urgently.
 
A Guilding said:
That's the best shod horse I have seen on here. the shoe placement is excellent, the subtleties of shoeing some flatter feet have been beautifully covered on this job, although the toe looks long the shoe has been set back to avoid over thining the dorsal wall. the heels are low but so is the angle of P3 in the capsule. If you draw a line down at the back of the foot the heels are perfectly covered. The shoe bisects the center of the foot perfectly. Shoeing a horse with feet like that is a skill that not all farriers have but yours does and looking at it he wont be cheap either :D
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Right, so are you saying my farrier is good? because im quite confused now with so many different opinions. What would you recommend i should do as ive seen you posting really interesting advice about shoeing
 
It sounds like it is a good job of shoeing bad feet. However, why are the feet bad? I would say the way that the horse has been trimmed and shod has caused the splayed/flared hooves.

Is it a chicken and egg situation?
 
Right, i didnt actually realise his feet were this bad but by everyones reaction i appear to own a horse that has absolutly disgusting feet and im now confused. I find the barefoot advice very interesting and their diets helpful but im not really interested in taking his shoes off as i know it would take so long for him to then become sound again and not hobble around the yard for a year. He would also need shoes anyway as he does alot of hacking and roadwork due to where we live.

I also dont like the idea of him not having any turnout (no grass) and the fact it may be very expensive to get him to have no shoes on and not practical.
So i take it his current diet is not a good one? and if i didnt mention its - 3 scoops of dengie healthy hooves per day, handful of pony nuts in his feed ball, 1/2 - 1 scoop of D&H pasture mix and 1 haynet of haylege and 1 haynet of hay (both good quality)
 
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