Advice on a cheeky Gypsy cob

[Charlotte.04]

Hi, first post. I am new to sharing but have been riding a decent period of time, but I have got a lovely 13.1 piebald gypsy cob one day pw as his owner is ill. He is only 7 and hasn't done anything much more than walk trot (maybe some canter) on hacks. Lovely hacking round there but I only know one route and there is no one to hack with to show me! He gets a little excited when we canter in the field and throws some small shapes, absolutely nothing malicious just excited, although the other day they were pretty spectacular and came extremely close to unseating me, after which I pressed for a few strides of nice canter once I regained my seat but after that he planted and refused to go forwards, just stood there pawing at the ground. I tried gently, I tried bossily, I tried waving the whip at him, tried tight spinning and not sure what else I should've done! I can't dismount as he is impatient to wait and I have minor back problems and inflexible hips. Anyway, in the school he isn't naughty per say, just used to being able to say no. For example when halting he will plough off towards the gate, won't trot past the gate, won't bend away from the gate, not at all forward and active etc. I have begun going in the school for 10min before I hack out as we only do a short half hour route, and these issues have slightly decreased and he now responds to leg or the wave/sound of a schooling whip through the air or on my boot (I don't see the need to tap him as he isn't being rude, just a baby) however he has little impulsion in any gait. I am planning to have a long schooling session this week in walk and trot, but with some poles and funky things like crates and barrels to make it nice and interesting form him. Unsure how I should work up to a nice canter in the school as when I previously asked, he became rushed in his trot, thrust his head up and ran round like a headless chicken! My questions are should I be cantering him in the school? Should I be doing polework, as he is quite unfit? Should I be cantering him out on hacks? How the hell do I learn all the hacking routes?
Thank you all.

 

[Gloi]

Get yourself an ordnance survey map of the area and look for routes.

 

[Charlotte.04]

Get yourself an ordnance survey map of the area and look for routes.

call me thick but I have tried googling for them and I am getting nothing?

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

He sounds very unbalanced, I would work on that before asking for canter in the school.

 

[Gloi]

call me thick but I have tried googling for them and I am getting nothing?

Try ebay you'll get a second hand one of your area for a couple of pounds, or get the app.

 

[Landcruiser]

call me thick but I have tried googling for them and I am getting nothing?

The OS maps app is very useful but you do need to know how to read an OS map. The key tells you what bridleways look like, then you can work out your own routes. Or you could always explore on foot first. Look for bridleways, byways, byways open to all traffic (BOATs), open access land.

Pony sounds very green and missing some of the basics, both in fitness and training. I would want to go right back to groundwork, leading over poles, backing, lateral work, long lining and lunging. This way you work out where the gaps and difficulties are without your weight adding to them, and keeping yourself safe at the same time. I guess it depends how much time and effort you want to invest in someone else's pony.

 

[Clodagh]

Are you sure he’s not in pain? I know it’s unlikely but bucking and then freezing… bad back?

 

[FitzyFitz]

call me thick but I have tried googling for them and I am getting nothing?

https://shop.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/map-ranges/os-paper-map-ranges/ for paper maps, nice to be able to look at a big area. Landranger would be what you want for a good scale for navigating by. Long green dashes for bridleways, dot-dash for restricted byways. Green dots is footpaths which are a no go! As he's green I would recommend walking the routes yourself first to see what obstacles you might have.

OS maps also has an online version and a phone app, although you only get the proper OS map that shows the bridleways if you do the premium version. The free cycle maps is no good. In my opinion it's well worth the expense because you can plan a route at home then check it on your phone while you're out if you've lost yourself on your paper map or gotten disoriented.

 

[Highmileagecob]

Think you may be up against a wily cob thinking he knows best! I agree with Landcruiser; time, patience, basic schooling and practice. Our cob hated school work and would hug the gate, refuse to trot, trot at full speed with a murderous expression on his face and try to scrape your leg against the rails when he felt he had done enough. Would hack all day with his ears pricked and a big smile, so we did our schooling out on the rides. We could never ride out with more than three other horses though, as he would get strong and silly. Pick your battles!

 

[GypsGal1718]

get vet out to make sure he is not in pain and if not look at changing up what you are doing eg not going in the school before each hack, maybe after or before and learn to read map and you can highlight new routes to do.

 

[MiJodsR2BlinkinTite]

Would agree with others re. pain & possible discomfort. I have had two gypsy cobs now, and both of them really struggled with school work. My current gypsy pony hates school work with a vengeance and will buck if asked for a correct canter lead on one particular leg. We've done all the vet investigations including Equinosis, but I've come to accept that hey this is the way she is and like the majority of humans she is just assymetric; also is a chunky little heavily built coblet, and this means that physically she cannot bend herself around the leg. So do I persist in schooling her even though she obviously hates it? Nope, I don't. I accept that she is a happy hacker and let her enjoy what she is best at. I rather suspect that this horse you are "borrowing" for the one day a week is exactly the same and I don't think it is viable to persist with your current schooling regime with him tbh.

These are big chunky horses remember; and they were never built for bending round anyone's leg! Your schooling regime sounds like it is quite intense, and it is very possible that this horse is not comfy doing what you are asking him to do, either through general unfitness & inability to flex, and/or possible injury or issues with musculature which makes it physically uncomfortable for him to do so. Also there could be a saddle fitting issue, and/or teeth need doing. Plus other issues.

Firstly: before getting vet or physio (or whoever) you need to speak to the owner first about the problems you are having. If she/he is agreeable, then you need to get the saddle checked (this is essential), then teeth, then get vet out to give their opinion of a trot-up (get a friend to do the trot-up if you can, and you watch - that way you see what the vet sees and you will be able to learn from it. If the owner's vet practice has access to it, Equinosis is a valuable tool in assessing gait and diagnosing lameness, but it doesn't come cheap. Also you may then need to get the physio out as well.

All of this is going to cost a considerable bit of £££ - and for one day a week you may feel that this isn't financially viable. However you must still talk to the owner, because if your schooling regime has highlighted a possible pain/discomfort issue in their horse, they need to know about it so they can take whatever action they deem appropriate.

For now, I would try and find someone to hack-out with and forget the schooling - I personally suspect that the horse is just not comfortable and physically finds it difficult; and sorry to be frank with you but really I think this horse needs a bit of FUN rather than a lot of schooling which is obviously not comfortable for him - as he's "telling" you loud and clear that he isn't happy with it!

 

[sbloom]

There is discomfort involved, probably physical, also emotional. Definitely make sure the saddle is properly checked (seen ridden) and preferably by someone who understands posture/balance/movement as that's at least partly where her issues lie. Pain is so often the result of ignoring these and keeping working them in the same way which simply strengthens the dysfunction.

Have a look at equitopiacenter.com for some great info on this stuff, plus also a few FB pages (if you find my page and follow it you'll get a load of relevant shares) including Amy Skinner Horsemanship. She has a fabulous approach combining behaviour and posture, focusing on balance, mental and physical.

 

[Gloi]

You will probably enjoy him more if you can find someone to hack out with.

 

[starbucker]

https://footpathmap.co.uk/map

Fab free website which shows bridlepaths in your area - check they are well kept first though take a friend on foot too if you're unsure

 

[Rose24]

https://footpathmap.co.uk/map

Fab free website which shows bridlepaths in your area - check they are well kept first though take a friend on foot too if you're unsure

Definitely this... And depending on your area, keep an eye on them (especially if you're near the edges of a city, for example). A path we were hacking the other day was blocked at one end with fly tipped rubbish. Thankfully another rider took photos and let our local riders WhatsApp group know, as it'd been clear just a few days before when we'd gone that way.

 

[starbucker]

Definitely this... And depending on your area, keep an eye on them (especially if you're near the edges of a city, for example). A path we were hacking the other day was blocked at one end with fly tipped rubbish. Thankfully another rider took photos and let our local riders WhatsApp group know, as it'd been clear just a few days before when we'd gone that way.

Yes we get this at the top of one of our bridlepaths, our horses love do the 'that wasnt there last time' dance

 

[Charlotte.04]

Think you may be up against a wily cob thinking he knows best! I agree with Landcruiser; time, patience, basic schooling and practice. Our cob hated school work and would hug the gate, refuse to trot, trot at full speed with a murderous expression on his face and try to scrape your leg against the rails when he felt he had done enough. Would hack all day with his ears pricked and a big smile, so we did our schooling out on the rides. We could never ride out with more than three other horses though, as he would get strong and silly. Pick your battles!

Sounds hilariously accurate lol!

 

[Charlotte.04]

There is discomfort involved, probably physical, also emotional. Definitely make sure the saddle is properly checked (seen ridden) and preferably by someone who understands posture/balance/movement as that's at least partly where her issues lie. Pain is so often the result of ignoring these and keeping working them in the same way which simply strengthens the dysfunction.

Have a look at equitopiacenter.com for some great info on this stuff, plus also a few FB pages (if you find my page and follow it you'll get a load of relevant shares) including Amy Skinner Horsemanship. She has a fabulous approach combining behaviour and posture, focusing on balance, mental and physical.

He has had his feet and teeth done recently, and his saddle does fit - must have forgotten to mention sorry.

 

[Charlotte.04]

Would agree with others re. pain & possible discomfort. I have had two gypsy cobs now, and both of them really struggled with school work. My current gypsy pony hates school work with a vengeance and will buck if asked for a correct canter lead on one particular leg. We've done all the vet investigations including Equinosis, but I've come to accept that hey this is the way she is and like the majority of humans she is just assymetric; also is a chunky little heavily built coblet, and this means that physically she cannot bend herself around the leg. So do I persist in schooling her even though she obviously hates it? Nope, I don't. I accept that she is a happy hacker and let her enjoy what she is best at. I rather suspect that this horse you are "borrowing" for the one day a week is exactly the same and I don't think it is viable to persist with your current schooling regime with him tbh.

These are big chunky horses remember; and they were never built for bending round anyone's leg! Your schooling regime sounds like it is quite intense, and it is very possible that this horse is not comfy doing what you are asking him to do, either through general unfitness & inability to flex, and/or possible injury or issues with musculature which makes it physically uncomfortable for him to do so. Also there could be a saddle fitting issue, and/or teeth need doing. Plus other issues.

Firstly: before getting vet or physio (or whoever) you need to speak to the owner first about the problems you are having. If she/he is agreeable, then you need to get the saddle checked (this is essential), then teeth, then get vet out to give their opinion of a trot-up (get a friend to do the trot-up if you can, and you watch - that way you see what the vet sees and you will be able to learn from it. If the owner's vet practice has access to it, Equinosis is a valuable tool in assessing gait and diagnosing lameness, but it doesn't come cheap. Also you may then need to get the physio out as well.

All of this is going to cost a considerable bit of £££ - and for one day a week you may feel that this isn't financially viable. However you must still talk to the owner, because if your schooling regime has highlighted a possible pain/discomfort issue in their horse, they need to know about it so they can take whatever action they deem appropriate.

For now, I would try and find someone to hack-out with and forget the schooling - I personally suspect that the horse is just not comfortable and physically finds it difficult; and sorry to be frank with you but really I think this horse needs a bit of FUN rather than a lot of schooling which is obviously not comfortable for him - as he's "telling" you loud and clear that he isn't happy with it!

Saddle does fit and was recently checked, teeth were done around 2 weeks ago and there has been no lameness or other ailments.

My 'schooling regime' is not intense, and it is simply because we would like him to get used to the school and get him some extra exercise as the hacking routes are only around 30-40 min therefore he isn't getting as much exercise as he needs. We have been building it up very slowly, first leading round the school then walking, then a short side of trot etc, now we spend around ten minutes mostly in walk doing large circles, sometimes a pole and other things that are relatively low impact and just an opportunity to get him that extra leg stretch. He has improved massively doing both hacking and schooling recently, and he is even beginning to relax his nose in!

 

[Charlotte.04]

Hi, first post. I am new to sharing but have been riding a decent period of time, but I have got a lovely 13.1 piebald gypsy cob one day pw as his owner is ill. He is only 7 and hasn't done anything much more than walk trot (maybe some canter) on hacks. Lovely hacking round there but I only know one route and there is no one to hack with to show me! He gets a little excited when we canter in the field and throws some small shapes, absolutely nothing malicious just excited, although the other day they were pretty spectacular and came extremely close to unseating me, after which I pressed for a few strides of nice canter once I regained my seat but after that he planted and refused to go forwards, just stood there pawing at the ground. I tried gently, I tried bossily, I tried waving the whip at him, tried tight spinning and not sure what else I should've done! I can't dismount as he is impatient to wait and I have minor back problems and inflexible hips. Anyway, in the school he isn't naughty per say, just used to being able to say no. For example when halting he will plough off towards the gate, won't trot past the gate, won't bend away from the gate, not at all forward and active etc. I have begun going in the school for 10min before I hack out as we only do a short half hour route, and these issues have slightly decreased and he now responds to leg or the wave/sound of a schooling whip through the air or on my boot (I don't see the need to tap him as he isn't being rude, just a baby) however he has little impulsion in any gait. I am planning to have a long schooling session this week in walk and trot, but with some poles and funky things like crates and barrels to make it nice and interesting form him. Unsure how I should work up to a nice canter in the school as when I previously asked, he became rushed in his trot, thrust his head up and ran round like a headless chicken! My questions are should I be cantering him in the school? Should I be doing polework, as he is quite unfit? Should I be cantering him out on hacks? How the hell do I learn all the hacking routes?
Thank you all.

Update:
First, he isn't in any pain as his saddle was fitted a few weeks ago, his teeth were done last week (and were fine) and he has no lameness or signs of any ailment whatsoever!
He has improved greatly with just a few mins in the school per week with me (his owners sister rides him in there in the same way I do) and the other week we ramped up and did 4 poles in a row in trot a few times, and schooled for around 30min (lots of walk breaks) and then to finish we got my friend to walk with us while we went exploring through the woods for 20min
I believe I am the problem, as I am not used to tiny chonky coblets, and at the time of post we were still new to each other, and he hasn't really been ridden by many others therefore I was probably just pressing all the wrong buttons. He hasn't thrown any other shapes in a while or been bad, just typical cob stopping and saying can't be bothered lol!
I am hunting down a map and have decided to just go exploring and figure out a route as I know where I can and can't ride in public.
I understand he doesn't enjoy schooling and I wish I could just use him as a happy hacker (I truly do respect his opinion and prefer hacking myself too, he is brilliant to hack), however he does need the extra exercise because he is a chunk. I am taking his fitness into consideration! I am aiming to discover a new route that is long enough to suffice.
I think the world of him and absolutely cherish our time together. I think he is warming up to me too...
Thanks for all the advice, especially on the maps!

 

[Highmileagecob]

You may be dealing with sore muscles as his work load kicks in. Cobs respond well to praise - a scratch on the withers and a bit of a fuss and you should get the ears pricked 'didn't I do well?' expression. Enjoy!

 

[Charlotte.04]

You may be dealing with sore muscles as his work load kicks in. Cobs respond well to praise - a scratch on the withers and a bit of a fuss and you should get the ears pricked 'didn't I do well?' expression. Enjoy!

Sounds possible! He does get very happy - hacking and poles - and his dopey look at me go look is brilliant. He's absolutely adorable, thank you.

 

[sbloom]

Saddles - even if it was checked a few weeks ago he may have changed shape (horses change shape way more than people realise, or can see themselves), and some checks are pretty cursory so it needs to be a ridden check to be thorough. Then, as a side issue, there's the check in this sort of situation when the horse isn't quite right and youre' trying to get to the bottom of it. A normal check may not be enough, it's often a good idea to try different padding under it, try a different saddle etc to be 100%, or as close as you can get, that the horse is truly happy in the saddle. Otherwise it's a tick box exercise that doesn't get you anywhere if no-one else can find a problem either. Often need professionals to consult with each other.

Muscle soreness from work is usually at day 3, so keep a diary and monitor what you were doing in the lead up to the issues. I definitely recommend keeping a horsey diary!