Advice on bitting up!? Pelham vs snaffle?

[HorseyStar]

Hi all
I have been trying to get a bit that my Welsh is happy in for 1.5 years
Now! Lol.... Iv had dentist out twice, all fine mouth /pain wise....

He is a VERY sensitive pony... And he really hates wearing a bit and has been soo fidgety and evasive in EVERYTHING i have tried... My aim is wanting him on the mildest snaffle for dressage....but... Iv tried single jointed, french link, happy mouth, rubber mullen, full cheek etc etc... Wudnt ever dream of a gag as i dont like them.... He has quite a small mouth confirmation and is currently in a hanging cheek Neue Schule but? Which if i listen to him he still doesnt feel happy in it??.... We have regular dressage lessons and work on schooling to work him back to front but even my instructor said its strange how he evades (head in air etc)... Its defo DEFO not pain, chiro said he has one of the best backs shes seen in years, vet very happy with him at his health check etc etc

He also wen drops leans on the bit and goes v inconsistently on thd bit up dwn etc etc my arms hurt after riding him and he goes like a train doesnt have any inspire to work i just kno he is trying to tell me that his mouth isnt happy

After much debate an research iv read that sum horses with small sensitive mouths are better without a joint? And suggested a mild mullen pelham with NO curb chain attached and NO joint on it?.....and work of the snaffle rein an just the curb rein loose unless needed etc.... SO i bought one in his size, as soon as i put it on i was utterly AMAZED he instantly just settled, started blowing out which he never does u till 1 hr work him in to calm him down... He just felt so light and happy and he put hia ears side ways an was listening to mt every move? I was utterly in shock after 1.5 years of head scratching

I also like to think i have soft hands... But i must admit he has seriusly pulled agsinst me and been v lazy in all the bits wev tried and has lent on me the whole way round..

I am v v happy that he seems happy but part of me a bit gutted that he settles so well in a pelham as i had dreams if doing sum showing in just sone sort of happy mouth :/

Whats better guys? Feeling like there pulling you along on the forehand and making my hands heavy in a snaffle an just peservering OR carry on schooling in this mild pelham as he seems so happy in it??...

Obvs i cant do my tests in a pelham BUT iv also bought an eggbutt straight porr to replicate the pelham miuthpiece this also has no joint nit tried him in this yet, will see how he goes...

I kno him so well an i am jus gob smacked at how settled he feels an how much he works his bk end and doesnt trail like a motorbike in thus bit?? I also hacked out an he wasnt half as spooky as usual?? Startin to think that him bein uncomfy has contrbuted to the spooking too :/

Any advice info to make me feel better about using it as i soooo wanted to stay with the snaffle but cnt if hes not happy in it?....like i sais hes v v sensitive an tells u straight away wen things arent quite right?! But listening to my horse has brought me to a pelham?!.....cant belueve it!

Its a straight bar mullen with NO curb chain on it as thats a no no for me ??

Please reassure me?

 

[*hic*]

Well it's not working as a pelham with no curb chain on it! It's working more as a gag

I find pelhams very useful.

FOr dressage I'd try him in the new one you've bought and see how he is in that, or try the same mouthpiece in a hanging cheek.

 

[WetandMuddy]

I have a Welsh Sec. D with the same sort of problem. He goes beautifully in a mullen mouth eggbutt snaffle. If you keep your hands light he doesn't lean. Very quiet in the head and mouth. The rubber and vulcanite mouth pieces are far too thick for him, he doesn't like them - so just plain mullen mouth snaffle.

It isn't worth using a pelham without the curb chain.

If you need a little more give at the poll, try a hanging cheek/filet baucher, again with a mullen mouth.

 

[smudge99]

Our old mare loved her eggbutt Mullen mouth bit she hated anything with a joint but the Pelham was too strong and she would over bend coming behind the bit. I believe the straight bar snaffle is allowed in dressage but others will be able to tell you for definite.

 

[StormyMoments]

i had the same problem with taz except it was for 8 years he went in to a happy mouth mullen mouth pelham and he is now in the metal mullen mouth pelham

he go's in a mullen mouth snaffle but is strong so he is usually in the pelham

you can get hanging cheek mullen mouths snaffles so you could give that a go too

 

[honetpot]

We have an A who is extreemely soft mouthed.
I would go back to basics with lunging and get him responsive to voice aids, so he knows, stand, and walk, and trot, and canter. Then lunge him with a rider on, or it you know how to sit deep and stiffen your back ride him and when you want him to stand stiffen you back and reseist but not pull with your hands. You have to start with stand and walk at first and build up. If he pokes his nose or leans, more leg and send him forward and start again.
You basically have to learn to ride him with your legs and seat and try not to fiddle with his head too much. We ride ours in a happy mouthed snaffle which he also hunts in and for showing a mullen mouth pelham with two riens with a leather curb very loose for show, with the curb rein so slack it has no action.

 

[*hic*]

I

It isn't worth using a pelham without the curb chain.

If you need a little more give at the poll, try a hanging cheek/filet baucher, again with a mullen mouth.

Using a pelham without a curb chain most certainly is worth it but it has a different (gag!) effect!

Hanging cheeks (arguably) keep the bit steadier in the mouth. Unless the rings are slotted there is no poll action with them.

 

[Mince Pie]

Same issue with my welshie - bought a mullen mouth baucher and she loved it.

 

[HorseyStar]

Thanks for replies?? So let me get this right... Using the pelham without the curb chain is more severe!????

Forgot to say he does have a leather chin strsp on it instead of the chain?

Thsnks will give the straight eggbar ago too then a straight eggbar baucher

Tbh i have regular dressage lessons and weve had a years worth if lessons in walk doing all the basics from scratch it really isnt a schooling issue, no matter how much i school him he is telling me he is not comfy in a snaffle??.....

 

[*hic*]

No, using a pelham without a curb chain has a different action - it lifts the bit in the mouth and applies poll pressure, rather than acting on the chin groove. That effect can be useful on some horses but is not "correct".

If you are a using "a leather chin strap" that's the same action as with a pelham. It would traditionally have been called a leather curb and is just as severe as a curb chain in it's action but is fractionally softer on the skin as it is squashed between bone and leather. That is only fractionally softer though! Consider the difference between a metal watch strap and a leather one when they are on your wrist. Make sure you have the chain, whether leather or metal, adjusted correctly for your horse.

If you have been having a year's worth of dressage lessons in walk what does your instructor suggest is the problem and tbh if they have not come up with a solution in that time I'd suggest changing instructors!

 

[HorseyStar]

She just said its time... We'c just been working perfecting turn on the haunches etc etc, he just doesnt like a joint in his mouth i think... The leather strap is v v loose.....im gunna try the straightbar eggbutt snaffle tomoz see how i get on cps wud much prefer to stick with the snaffle, but if he goes bk to the same il try the pelham agaim, not had a lesson for ova a month so instructor doesnt kno iv changed bits...just want him happy at all times and im not after a quick fix as hes not a rearer or a bolter an not super strong... Will see how we get on

Thanks for ur time & help x

 

[Tnavas]

See if you can get one of these - A Cambridge mouoth Snaffle -

 

[Janette]

The Cambridge mouth is not legal for dressage.

To be honest, your horse is telling you that he is very happy with the current arrangement - so why change it? I had an instructor who wa adamant that all horses will go in a lozenge mouthed snaffle. Mine went - but wouldn't stop, keep a steady head carriageand leaned incessantly. I put her in a mullen mouthed pelham and she was a saint.

So now we do everything in that pelham - except dressage nd she goes in a Myler drop snaffle with no joint for the time we are at the competition.

And is you want to show - then pelhams, with 2 reins (or a double) are correct. Sorry, but why make life hard?

 

[*hic*]

If the leather strap is vv loose as you say then when you use the curb rein you are first of all rotating the bit inthe mouth, then causing poll pressure (like the gag you were so against) then finally acting on the curb groove with the leather curb. If you don't want the gag action then you need to sort out the tightness of the curb.

Or try the bit you've already bought with the same mouthpiece.

 

[HorseyStar]

Thanku! Glaf i asked now.. As u can tell i kno nothing about pelhams as iv always used french links for all my horses only my boy doesnt like them i did ask at shop for the most mildest pelham an ended up with the mullen moutj which he loves!.... Will try the eggbutt straightbar tiday tho an keep u posted. My horses happiness xmes firsy hence trying new bits relentlessly for past year an half im
Not after a quick fix at all iv put do much time into him already... Will try it out an keep u posted. X

 

[HorseyStar]

Hi all
Just an update!... Rode him in the eggbutt mullen mouth snaffle and he loved it!! He wasnt lile a giraffe and settled very well in it, worked on the bit quite cOnsistently which is unusual... Its like a magic bit! Plus its a snaffle which i wanted to keep to anyway?! Maybe i was correct in thinking he doesnt like a joint piece in the middle?...... Plus i can still keep the pelham for showing if we do sum next year!

Thanks again all... As u prib guessed i have no clue about pelhams so youv really educated me in this area!

Thanks x

 

[*hic*]

It's always nice when people post an update. It's especially nice when it's a positive one like this.

Well done for trying so hard to get him settled in his mouth. Here's hoping it continues to work well for him

 

[MagicMelon]

My Welsh D was funny in the mouth, I found he went best in a hanging cheek french link for dressage and a mullen mouth kimblewick for jumping, and a mullen mouth pelham with curb chain and double reins for showing (which he went best of all in).

 

[HorseyStar]

Thanks *hic* for all yoir advice!!

Yes lets hope it stays that way! Lol iv had a year with bits and at the end now before i loose all my hair!! Ha ha