Advice on lateral work...evading.

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katiejaye

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Could anyone offer some advise on a horse that tries to evade lateral work. I have been doing a lot of work recently on trying to fine tune Louis' lateral work, specifically his leg yield and shoulder in. He knows the aids and can do lovely leg yield and has been doing it for many years, however I have found that since we have got him coming through from behind properly and up into my hand and in front of my leg, he has started being a little arsey in leg yield and shoulder in. I suspect that he's trying to evade the hard work as because he's now working into a much more 'correct' outline and utilising his back/hind. Generally I find that when I put him into right shoulder in and leg yield he is quite compliant, however to the left I find he generally seems to exploit my weakness (I'm much stronger on the right rein) and will offer a few steps, but then collapse his shoulder to the outside and refuse to step through behind, if I then correct the bend and re-establish him into my hand he then stops and throws his head around and walk backwards or hop. When he does this I always smack him forwards and make him move, however while it does improve with repition we do seem to have an arguement most times I ask for it. In shoulder in to the left he uses the same evasion or tends to kick out at my leg contact. However he seems to find the quarter-in work much easier and does lovely travers quite happily!

Physically he has had his saddle/back etc all checked recently and apart from a slight stiffness in his hind he is well. I have had his back seen to just recently and he has regular massages.

sorry if a bit long winder
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Boss does this a little, I've been told that when he does it in shoulder-in, to change it into renvers, so bend in the direction you're going and make him step over so that him resisting the left bend becomes harder work as you make him engage into right bend and renvers. Once they soften, switch back into shoulder-in. It may take 3 steps, it may take the whole long side.

With the leg yield, use a similar principle and bend him into a few steps of half-pass if he wont maintain the straightness for a few strides.

Saying that, you probs know far more about dressage than me
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Thanks that does make sense, I have been using that principle on the right rein and putting in a few steps of half pass and it does really seem to help...however on the left he's so stubborn and as soon as he knows I have him into my hands he just throws the towel in and has a hissy fit! I will keep soldiering on though! I will def try what you suggest with the renvers, that sounds like very sensible solution
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I will keep u updated to how it works.
 
do you do your leg yield from corner to corner of the arena (ie changing the rein whilst doing it)?

When he starts to dip out through his should half halt hard on the outside rein and use your stick to get him to 'cross' behind more, if he kicks out behind, half halt him again and keep repeating it until he respects you and crosses over. Make sure you dont have too much neck bend and that the quarters arent leading - the shoulder should lead slightly and the quarters follow. But by shoulder leading, it dosent mean shoulder falling out.

In the shoulder in, everytime he goes to evade do a 10m circle and start again. You might end up doing about 8 or 9 down the longside, but it means you can re-establish the bend and pace and set him up again for it.
 
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do you do your leg yield from corner to corner of the arena (ie changing the rein whilst doing it)?

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thanks P_G, I do it both across the diagnol and down the longside. Like u say, I do use the method you advise and I use the stick to get him to cross which works a treat to the right. However to the left the same method normally ends in him throwing a fit! My left arm is much weaker than my right and I find when leg yielding left he siezes the opportunity to bend his neck right and drop his right should and try to lead with the right shoulder (if coming down the 3/4 line and crossing the diagnol), if I half halt and tap behind with the stick he gets really wound up and stops and tries to reverse or half-rear, I wondered in this situation do I keep insisting, smack him or let him calm down and then start again. Although I don't like him to think he's got the better of me I find if I reprimand him and ask again he ends up properly throwing a hissy fit!
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The 10 m circles work really great and I have done that with him, however maybe I need to be more insistent and like you say keep at it and just keep repeating the circles. He can be sooooo stubborn sometimes
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I eventually end up getting wound up and tense too unfortunately!
 
Archie gets hit again if he starts reversing on me im afraid - i think hes having you on slightly, in that he knows that if you hit him and he backs off and starts reversing you then let him not complete the movement. It sounds to me like hes finding it harder that way and is getting out of it perfectly.

Like i said, Archie gets a wack, and if he bucks/rears he gets another wack until he carries on with the movement - it might sound harsh to some people on here, but its the only way hes going to learn to not get away with it! Hes soon learnt tho and i only need to use my aids lightly now.
 
I have a 'head tipping' problem on the right rein. Only become really obvious when he moved up to Elementary and has to do 10 metres/15 mtres canter circles. Ive tried lifting my inside hand, giving with the outside hand, taking more with inside hand and trying to use my inside leg more ( I am weaker with my right hand and right leg - oddly as I am right - handed).

I thought I would get the physio just to check there is nothing 'nagging' but I dont think there is - his teeth have just been done. Also he is MUCH better in a double. Any ideas??? A bit frustrating but I think he is just struggling with the increased collection/bend of the more advanced tests. Oh and he is 15.
 
Out of interest, what schooling whip do you use?? I school with spurs and a schooling whip and if shes not responding to my leg then i give her tap but doesnt seem to do much...think I must have a useless one lol
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Also where she has been so lazy recently and ive been having to use more leg ive rubbed her sides and now she feels a bit dead to the leg - help dressage expert????? x
 
K-J, are you sure he is confident on the left rein, just because he knows how to do it on the right rein it doesn't follow that he can maintain it on the left. Have you tried leg yeilding out of a 10m circle and then leg yeild straight for a few strides and then cirlce again until his confidence is there. Also are you 100% sure that you aren't asking for too much collection at the same time and getting him a little too tight in the neck and shoulder? Or too much bend rather than angle?

I actually find putting poles down a metre in from the long side and then use them as the 'fence' if you like and shoulder in alongside them, that way horses don't hang onto the fence.

Are you stiffer to your left, are you sure you are moving your hips freely?

I actually wouldn't be getting after him just yet, you've just moved up to elementary (if memory serves me correctly) this is a normal learning curve for him and quite a common problem, he's normally a good boy isn't he so I would give him the benefit of the doubt and try and build his confidence & suppleness to the movement first.
 
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Archie gets hit again if he starts reversing on me im afraid - i think hes having you on slightly, in that he knows that if you hit him and he backs off and starts reversing you then let him not complete the movement. It sounds to me like hes finding it harder that way and is getting out of it perfectly.

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I know you're right, my trainer says the same thing, when Louis plays up he always shouts at me to smack him hard and if he tries to rear he tells me to do it again...I think Louis has sussed me a bit as I have a real issue with rearing. I don't get nervous with bucking or bolting but a couple of yrs back he went up and over on top of me so every time he threatens I think...eeek! He hasn't done it in AGES and generally doesn't rear but with me it's just a psychological thing and I know he's having me on
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Your right though, I will have to be slightly stricter so he doesn't feel he can get away with it.
 
Turbobert, have you had his back checked? Louis started doing the same thing a few months back (he's also 15) and I had him checked and it showed up that his pelvis was sligtly out to the right and his right hind was stiff so he wasn't stepping under properly with the right hind.
 
Turbobert - I wouldn't be giving away your outside rein, I would be doing some quaters -in exercises with the same inside bend, down the longside and through the corners - not both together though - to lift the inside shoulder and stretch the outside muscles, the head tilting is a balancing issue so if you're struggling with your 10/15m circles you need to get the inside shoulder up more and the tilting should sort itself out.
 
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