Advice please - chair seat

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Lissie2

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Hi! Unfortunately I've ridden for years with a chair seat - I'm trying to correct it but seems impossible. It's become muscle memory. I don't know why I do it...but bringing that lower leg back nearly kills me and it's such a simple thing! I feel my whole body realigns. I have VERY long thighs and I have always ridden in a long stirrup and very western. My instructor has told me to take up my stirrups a few holes and force my leg back when I'm out hacking my boy. It hurts! Is this normal? Is it my bodys conformation? Or something I'm just going to have force through? My Arab is very strong and do tend to subconsciously ride behind his movement I think. Any one either same problem? Advice? Exercises? I ride a lot bareback and stirrupless and it appears not to affect my chair seat or improve it? Frustrating x
 
You've become accustomed to one way of riding so it is going to ache a bit to change it. If riding without stirrups doesn't help then you could try riding standing up. If you stand in your stirrups you have to have your lower leg underneath you or you'll over balance.

It could be that your saddle isn't helping? Some saddle seems to encourage a chair seat more than others. If changing your saddle is an option that might help.
 
How are your hip flexors? If you have tight hip flexor muscles, then moving your thigh into a more vertical position is going to pinch. and you may find yourself tipping forward to compensate.

I've got terrible hips and very wide horses, I've come to accept that I'm never going to achieve a perfect "long dressage leg" but I do my best :)
 
I will try riding in two point more... Though most of the time I only canter in two point. I wish there was a little device that held/locked your leg back for you while your muscles adapted! Maybe I should invent one?! 😂
 
Not really in a position to get new saddle... Though I know dressage saddles are good for putting your leg back. Maybe I can find a good second hand one to try x
 
Yes it's normal that it hurts .
You need some one to train you to activate your core and on the lunge is good way to do this .
I would try too things when hacking .
The first is ride in you preferred stirrup length but think all the time of your ear your shoulder your hip and your heel in a vertical line .
Then as you get the feel of it you can experiment with stirrup length .
The other is ride a period every day with very short stirrups and get up off the saddle and learn how to use your knee hip ankle foot and core to balance .
You can use the mane or a neck strap to help you out it's best to start in safe area at first .
I have been riding fifty years and still spend part of ever hack doing this .
The chair seat is seductive because it reduces the amount of energy you need to use to stay in the saddle so it's going to feel very hard work when you change it .
Also if it's a long established habit it's possible your hip flexors will be very tight a physio will be able to help you with this .
 
Thanks. So I will consciously try to hold my leg back out riding and also shorten stirrups at times. Do you mean walk trot and canter to balance off saddle?
 
Lissie2 said:
Thanks. So I will consciously try to hold my leg back out riding and also shorten stirrups at times. Do you mean walk trot and canter to balance off saddle?
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If you consciously hold your leg back, you will end up tighter through your joints and perching forward.

I would shorten your stirrups and spend some time every time you ride, whether hacking or schooling, in a 2 point seat, in all paces. You want to feel the backs of your legs aching, as you stretch the muscles down the backs of your thighs and lower legs, and the weight goes down into your heels. Riding bareback will encourage a chair seat. If you only shorten your stirrups occasionally, you will find any improvement very gradual (if any) as you will be constantly reinforcing the "old" position.

Imagine that as you are riding along, that your horse vanishes from underneath you in a puff of smoke. You should be balanced, with the weight in your feet, so that you land on your feet, and don't fall onto your knees or backwards onto your bum! If you are in a chair seat, with your weight back, you will end up sitting on the ground.
 
Yes instructor kept saying pull your leg back but I'm not daft I can tell it's more than that - whole alignment.
 
Lissie2 said:
Thanks. So I will consciously try to hold my leg back out riding and also shorten stirrups at times. Do you mean walk trot and canter to balance off saddle?
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Walk at first .
There's lots of things a good physio can show you to increase your flexibility for riding if you can find an ACPAT training animal physio whose trained for people before training for horses it's a good way .
Some will do rider assessments where they tailor a plan to help you and your horse improve in a targeted way .
For sure your tendency to like the chair seat will will in part be driven by how you move on the ground and a good physio can do a lot to change that .
You need to find someone interested in that sort of work.
 
Yes this is what I'm getting at really. It's not just a habit...(well it is obviously) I'm finding it incredibly physically difficult x
 
Are your stirrup bars too far forwards on your saddle?

I think bareback will always encourage a chair seat IME.
 
Got a wintec Gp and I don't think it helps. My friends lending me her spare dressage saddle to see if it improves anything x
 
Some saddles just put anyone into a chair seat, even some dressage saddles.
A saddle that is too low at the back will do it as well.
 
My worse chair seat experience was on an arab actually, with a saddle that was low at the back, stirrup bars forwards, I had no hope really!
 
Well he's an Arab! And think stirrups are quite far forward. But it's also my actual posture being made more obvious not just saddle lol x
 
Some of the treeless saddles have bars set well back. The cheap n cheerful (but very good) Libra for example - I would be amazed if anyone could ride in a chair seat in one even if they tried! Might be worth a try?
 
Two things will help greatly while riding - standing in stirrups and riding without stirrups.

You could also try lessons on the lunge with a good instructor (just saying 'put your legs back' does not constitute good instruction I'm sorry).

Pilates (ideally specifically for riders) would also be beneficial.
 
I find it helpful to think of stretching my inner thigh down rather than forwards, keeping a similar angle in the knee, to move the lower leg back.

At the halt, are you actually sitting with a neutral pelvis and spine, or are you sitting on the fleshy part of your bum and rounded lower back? If your pelvis isn't in the right place, no degree of good hips/knees will help you :)
 
Get rid of the stirrups for the time being, and make sure you are sitting in the deepest part of the saddle, nicely on your seat bones. Then using the hand on that side, lift your thigh out and back (grab a handful of jod fabric_, moving from the hip. Release the leg and repeat on the other side. Now gently bend your knees and push your hips forward slightly so that you get the feeling that you are about to kneel down on floor. Ignore all the stuff about keeping the heels down, it greatly encourages the chair seat. Think instead about gently pulling your toes up inside your boots. It keeps the ankles relaxed and maintains very gently tension in the calf muscles. Now all you have to do is retain that position!! It will feel very strange at first, but your tongue will tell you that the tiny hole the dentist drilled in your tooth is the size of a bus. Your brain needs to accept the change, and your muscles need to adapt to the new tension/lack of tension. I wouldn't do anything other than walk until you are absolutely settled in that new position, then add sitting trot and canter before introducing rising trot. The crucial part is the kneeling down feeling. Get that established and everything should fall into place.
As others have said though, the construction of a saddle will greatly affect your riding position. And yes, bareback is the classic chair position.
 
Okay. So I tried out dressage saddle. Could only maintain correct leg position with a very long stirrup. Trying shorter as suggested seemed to force my leg into very nearly a right angle. I'm not kidding when I say I have VERY long thighs. However, stirrupless I could maintain ear, shoulder, hip, heel for a decent chunk.of time in walk and canter. The minute I put stirrups back got right angle legs again. What is going On? Grrrrrrr
 
Where abouts are you? I'll come and give you a biomechanical lesson! It's rarely the legs which are the problem .....it all stems from the seat....
 
Try what fatpiggy said. I doubt you are sitting on your seat bones at all from how you are sitting so you need to sit properly first the legs will follow.

I got taught the same way as fatpiggy suggested but slightly different. Bring one knee up to the top of the saddle like a jockey then hold your leg off the saddle sideways still bent. After about 5 seconds of holding it up push it backwards and down and stretch your whole leg down. Repeat with other side then do both legs together.

If you have done this right you will be in pain. Sitting on your seat bones hurts a lot when you aren't used to it. So if you aren't in pain keep doing it until you are. Sorry but it will stop hurting eventually. You will get used to it. Keep doing this until you sit on your seat bones naturally. By then your legs should be normally underneath you too. It won't be a quick fix but it will help.
 
rachk89 said:
Try what fatpiggy said. I doubt you are sitting on your seat bones at all from how you are sitting so you need to sit properly first the legs will follow.

I got taught the same way as fatpiggy suggested but slightly different. Bring one knee up to the top of the saddle like a jockey then hold your leg off the saddle sideways still bent. After about 5 seconds of holding it up push it backwards and down and stretch your whole leg down. Repeat with other side then do both legs together.

If you have done this right you will be in pain. Sitting on your seat bones hurts a lot when you aren't used to it. So if you aren't in pain keep doing it until you are. Sorry but it will stop hurting eventually. You will get used to it. Keep doing this until you sit on your seat bones naturally. By then your legs should be normally underneath you too. It won't be a quick fix but it will help.
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Yes, you can do that legs out way too, but its better if you are under 18 in that case!!!!
 
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