advice please paid £2800 horse breaking and not seen result

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bubblesgrooming

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I have had my horse broken in and during the process my partner didn't get paid from a job as he worked for the council and they took over a month to pay so we went two months without payment in total and it involved our horse being up the yard longer than planned as they wouldn't let her leave until the payment had been made which is fair enough.

the payment was £170 to start but they dropped it to £150 to help us out which was lovely. in total we have spent around £2800 on my horse as we had to catch up which is our fault as we had to pay it back in like £300 week payments. during this process she stopped riding her for 2 weeks and still charged us for full amount of the £150 per week.

during the process I kept asking to see my mare being ridden and no response or ignored message or il sort it. then asked about 5 times to take photos and videos and they promised. I asked what tack she needed yet again no response or yeah il get back to you and then nothing until they wanted payment. it got to end of payment and she moved yards with the lady and we owed £100 as paid new yard rent and her for riding separate. I also asked for my head collar back which is a leather diamante one and not cheap and she then messaged to say will drop stuff down but head collar is snapped. when they stuff came back the head collar was snapped in 3 places but no explanation to how it was broke and she had ago at me for asking saying it wasn't her fault. we told her as we still hadn't ridden her or seen her being ridden or had any explanation to how she goes, did she buck, does she go strait etc... and after 4 months and £2800 you would assume she was going lovely.

we have paid the whole lot as the lady got the yard to ask for the remaining £100 and its been 2 months and still not seen her being ridden or had videos or pictures as promised. I have complained to the lady in which she has got nasty and blocked contact from me and told all her customers that I didn't pay her and expected her to ride and I owe livery etc... this lady is well know dressage rider so everyone is now believing her sob story and im a non payer. I haven't told anyone anything and don't know what to do. yes I appreciate we messed up like 4 months ago and we made massive lump sums to pay it back and was open and honest with her. all im asking for is to see the finished result and the pictures and videos she promised. what would you guys do?
 
iv just opened my new business and work monday-saturday 9am-6pm and she only rides during 10am-2pm so i kept asking for dates and times that i could come see her and she would take 5 days to reply and not answer the question. i always seen my mare on a sunday to give her treats and a groom but the women doesn't ride on weekends. something we did explain to her before bringing her up. she promised to take pics and videos and has now said she has her friend to confirm she did but wont give them to us. and has now blocked contact.
 
There seem to be two different elements to this, debt which you say is now sorted and how well your horses training is going. Did you have any sort of formal agreement on costs and expectations?

You do not say if your horse is going to stay at the present yard or if you want to move it somewhere else in longer term.

Go and ride yourself, it is your horse! However if you are not confident enough to assess her then take an experienced instructor with you to help. Once you know how far her training has progressed then you will have to decide what you want to do.

Your alternative is to move horse elsewhere and reassess and then decide how you want to sort this out.

You can not make any decision until you see the horse ridden or you ride it yourself.
 
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alainax said:
Ride your horse and see how she goes? She might be going lovely then its money well spent :)
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Yes...have you actually thought about getting on the horse? If you can't get on it as it's not been backed then you know she hadn't done her job!
 
iv asked people up the yard as its a riding school in which this person is now working for and all of them wont get on her as its up to the person who broke her to do it. iv arranged another instructor to ride her but she wants the details of how she goes before doing it as my mare was a rescue mare and arab so super sharp and very nervous. i have since found out im pregnant so cannot just jump on (been trying for years and nothing as caught as soon as i had my mare broken which was typical) im only 2 months pregnant so could have actually got on by now if she had bothered getting back to me with times and dates as even though i work during the day i told her i could book it off.

the problem is having spent all that money and the fact she is rescue mare i wanted reports of how she done, how she reacted. she is my baby and i wanted to know how she has progressed. i also want what iv paid for and what she has promised me as everyone els has said if there horses have ever been trained they get updated pictures and videos plus a daily summary inthe dairy of whats been done. iv had nothing and its wasnt cheap.
 
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I would not get on unless you have seen it ridden first. How do you know she has done anything at all for the money otherwise?. A professional would be happy for you to see the horse's progress and would want you to ride it before you took it home.
 
Well it hard to detangle all this but if almost as soon as the horse arrived to be worked on you stopped paying and have owed her money the whole time I can understand why perhaps the trainer was not as helpful as she could have been .
As for the headcollar , stuff comes back from pros trashed all the time you have to live with that I am afraid .
Is the horse still with the trainer ? Is she still working on the horse ? If so you need to sort your relationship with her arrange to go and meet her ASAP .

As for video updates etc are you really suprised she was not doing this when you owed her money all the time ?
 
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Personaly, now that you have paid what you owe you need to remove the horse from this lady and find someone who will give you updates.
 
im a little bit confused by this comment that she can be funny as she is owed money. that is the most unprofessional thing iv ever heard! and to also have my items given back to me trashed which no explanation. its bloody hard to snap leather headcollar so did she fall, hurt herself. im very shocked at your reply! as i had made the arrangement with her which she agreed too and said no problem as she has been there plus normally for a service you don't pay until th work is finished plus how can you justify charging working price if your not working the horse? whether you owe money or not if you know the reason why and they have an agreement in place and your any decent human being you wouldn't treat someone like this. its so unprofessional! its also unprofessional that she is going around telling people im a non payer when that was all sorted and is all payed for, a professional should never discuss a clients account ever! the only reason she is saying all this is because i want what iv paid for and she is being awkward.
 
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bubblesgrooming said:
im a little bit confused by this comment that she can be funny as she is owed money. that is the most unprofessional thing iv ever heard! and to also have my items given back to me trashed which no explanation. its bloody hard to snap leather headcollar so did she fall, hurt herself. im very shocked at your reply! as i had made the arrangement with her which she agreed too and said no problem as she has been there plus normally for a service you dont pay until th work is finished plus how can you justify charging working price if your not the horse. whether you owe money or not if you know the reason why and they have an agreement in place and your any decent human being you wouldnt treat someone liek this. its so unprofessional!
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And its pretty unreasonable to expect someone to be all sweetness and light with an owner who is not fulfilling her part of the deal .... To pay on time.
 
she was fine until week 3-4 and thats when the council didnt pay for my partners job by this stage then we agreed to pay back lump sums which we did every week. if your going to charge for a service then you expect to receive a service. in my partners job he does the work and gets paid at the end as most services you offer. you cant agree to something and be fine then once you get all your money be horrible and awkward. all i have asked for is to see the finished result. i have a right to see the finished result as otherwise what would have been the point in paying for the service in the first place.
 
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Goldenstar said:
And its pretty unreasonable to expect someone to be all sweetness and light with an owner who is not fulfilling her part of the deal .... To pay on time.
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it is if your a professional and also if the trainer has agreed the terms and said its fine to pay back then yes this is unreasonable as you cant do one thing then do complete opposite its very unprofessional.
 
It just sounds like a huge mess to be honest.
If you found yourself in money troubles you should have stopped the training until you've saved a bit, you can't expect someone to keep schooling your horse without knowing if they'll be paid.

On the other side, the woman should be upfront with you about what she has and hasn't done.

Where is the horse now?
 
I too would be pretty upset in your situation however, given your horse is there I would try to keep a very professional lid on it (not saying you haven't). Could you ask the rider you are now looking to use to assess her to contact the prof direct - not to talk about your account but simply to talk about where the horse is at for the new rider's safety if nothing else? I would want to see that rider ride your horse asap if, as it seems, your unlikely to get a good opportunity to see the prof herself. It sounds like your relationship with the prof is v. difficult right now so might get more joy via the other rider?
 
Patterdale said:
It just sounds like a huge mess to be honest.
If you found yourself in money troubles you should have stopped the training until you've saved a bit, you can't expect someone to keep schooling your horse without knowing if they'll be paid.

On the other side, the woman should be upfront with you about what she has and hasn't done.

Where is the horse now?
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we were not in money trouble until the council didn't pay us. we wouldn't have been behind if it was a normal business which required monthly payments, it was the weekly payments which caused this as it was cleared when the payment finally came through. the thing is we explained this to the trainer who agreed to this so i just dont get why all the negative comments when the trainer knew what was going on and agreed to it. you cant agree to something then change your mind because you feel like it. al i have asked for is what iv paid for and thats to see the finished result. you would go pick your car up from garage and pay to then find out it doesn't work. or would you lol? iv said we were in the wrong and that its our fault we got put behind, the trainer said it was fine, she had been in same boat before. or im asking for is to see my horse being ridden to make sure she is safe and the pictures and vids she has claimed to have taken. i dont think im being to unreasonable. iv handed my notice in at the yard so will be moving back to my yard end of the month :)
 
Ultimately I'm sorry to say faults on both sides. Yes the professional should have messaged you back and arranged a time for you to come and visit your mare, however, if I had concerns that someone was not providing a service I had paid for I would be making time to go and visit whether she knew I was coming or not. If needs be book a holiday day from work or a half day with cover. On the other hand if you've not paid for a period of time I can understand her reluctance to keep going. Horses cost money to keep never mind start backing and riding away and most of us don't have the luxury of keeping a number of horses through to the end of the process before we get payment. If you have paid everything you owe and aren't satisfied with the service find a yard, get her on it and then start assessing the work or asking an instructor to do it for you if the pregnancy concerns you. Once you see her handled and how she reacts to tack you'll get a reasonable idea of whether she's been completely untouched or turned into a superstar!
 
bubblesgrooming said:
it is if your a professional and also if the trainer has agreed the terms and said its fine to pay back then yes this is unreasonable as you cant do one thing then do complete opposite its very unprofessional.
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But you don't know they have not done a good job you have to make th effort to go and see .
Yes I accept it would perhaps to have been nice to have some videos but you have not got them so if she did not take them nothing can magic them up , but the important thing is is the horse going well you need to find out .
One of my old bosses would have had your horse off the yard you in court and a charge against your assets pronto, he did not ' do 'non payers .
You negiolated a reduction which will have left her with precious little profit .
 
It's a very confusing mess.

Didn't you agree before you took.horse there about video footage and seeing horse ridden?
You said it was 3 weeks before this money issue started so you should have had an idea of what rider was doing and how.horse was going then.

You need someone to get on the horse.
Or at least try.
Could you talk to the lady face to face.
Being reasonable, just ask for details of what was done and apologetic.
After all you normally paid as you go not after.
This is the horse world not your partners business world, in which you normally paid a deposit.
 
StamfordBlue said:
Ultimately I'm sorry to say faults on both sides. Yes the professional should have messaged you back and arranged a time for you to come and visit your mare, however, if I had concerns that someone was not providing a service I had paid for I would be making time to go and visit whether she knew I was coming or not. If needs be book a holiday day from work or a half day with cover. On the other hand if you've not paid for a period of time I can understand her reluctance to keep going. Horses cost money to keep never mind start backing and riding away and most of us don't have the luxury of keeping a number of horses through to the end of the process before we get payment. If you have paid everything you owe and aren't satisfied with the service find a yard, get her on it and then start assessing the work or asking an instructor to do it for you if the pregnancy concerns you. Once you see her handled and how she reacts to tack you'll get a reasonable idea of whether she's been completely untouched or turned into a superstar!
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i have never denied im not inthe wrong. i just want to see final result and the pics vids i was promised but hopefully your right and itl be that she is a superstar lol
 
Goldenstar said:
But you don't know they have not done a good job you have to make th effort to go and see .
Yes I accept it would perhaps to have been nice to have some videos but you have not got them so if she did not take them nothing can magic them up , but the important thing is is the horse going well you need to find out .
One of my old bosses would have had your horse off the yard you in court and a charge against your assets pronto, he did not ' do 'non payers .
You negiolated a reduction which will have left her with precious little profit .
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surely that is only legal after month and invoice has been issued? not only 2 weeks behind horse world is mental lol
 
I cannot believe you have sent your horse away for breaking and schooling, accrued a bill of £2800 and never seen the horse work. You are in business yourself so you must have some concept of the way of business. No horse expert 'never works on Sundays'. Maybe they prefer not to but would surely make an arrangement as a one off. Why did you pay up in full without insisting that you saw the horse work? Why did you not say we will pay the balance of what we owe when we see the horse ridden and we can then take her away etc. etc.
Your partner does contract work and you run a business - I am staggered that you have not dealt with this in a business like way. Why did you keep waiting for the person to come back to you? Why not ring her and get an answer instantly instead of coming on to a public forum?
 
Hang on a minute. If I'm reading this correctly when the OP explained that monies due were delayed (& I've had that happen on council contract work too) the 'professional' refused to release the horse but continued to charge £150 per week (£30 less than the £180 agreed) but discontinued the work. It now seems as if OP has handed over £2800, but has had no feedback regarding how the horse is now going under saddle, & no pictures or video evidence to prove the horse has even been broken. People who know the yard & rider where the horse has been refuse to get on it saying it's to professionals place to do it?
What a mess.

OP - if you couldn't get up during the week as this person doesn't ride at weekends (Really? For clients that pay that much money?) couldn't someone have gone on your behalf?

It's a huge amount for you to have paid, but if you are really unsure how much work has been done the simple answer is to tack her up & lunge her. See how she reacts to working in tack & to being tacked up. If she seems settled & happy try getting on as if you were backing - ie have someone leg you up & lean over her first. Obviously you'll need a helper (preferably someone who is used to working with young horses) & also someone to video what happens.

If you're not happy with the result then it may be time to play hard ball. Send a recorded letter threatening her with the small claims court as she hasn't supplied what was agreed, & has charged you handsomely for not doing so. Tell her that unless she provided the pictures & video evidence that she has in fact done what she has been paid to do then you will have no option but to sue for the return of the fees charged. She sounds a bl00dy nasty bully who needs standing up to.

For those who say the professional was entitled to behave in this manner because the OP had fallen behind with the agreed payment schedule I totally disagree. No reputable breaking yard that I know of has ever behaved in the rude & uncommunicative manner that the OP has described, & plenty of them will have had clients over the years run up a bill for a few weeks.
 
If I were you I would take a days holiday this week and go and see the horse ridden, call the trainer (not text) and say you are coming up on say Wednesday please let me know what the best time would be for me to see you riding the horse.

You really need to see the horse ridden by her before you move it back to your yard, you can't try and get on it yourself whilst you are pregnant with no idea of how it will behave.
 
Congratulations on your pregnancy, don't risk your self riding when you have waited do long.

I would be worried that other riders on the yard do not want to get on your mare, seems odd if they have seen her working well.

Moving her back to your own yard, you could consider just turning her away for the summer, lots of young horses do get turned away after initial training.
 
bubblesgrooming said:
surely that is only legal after month and invoice has been issued? not only 2 weeks behind horse world is mental lol
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Mental! these are buisnesses that operate on tight margins Why should anyone keep a horse and have it costing them cash flow causing their buisness issues ?
LOL ! I am glad you think owing people money Is funny it must have made it easier to sleep at night .
We charged short term liveries ( ie horses we did not look after all year ) fortnightly if they not pay they where out and he pursued them for the money.
 
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