Advice - young horse not going forward

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tractor

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I've got a 4y/o Oldenburg cross who I backed/broke last September. He's worked twice a week, lunged then ridden. He was turned away for a month before Christmas, and has been back in work for two weeks.

On the lunge, he's active and responsive - will happily walk/trot/canter. As soon as I get on him he's dead.....I can *just* manage a wandery walk, trot would be out of the question.

I've never broken one before, so just wondered if anyone could advise if this is normal? IE is it a case of confidence/balance or should I be more concerned....he seems quite happy ambling about, it's more the total personality change I'm not sure about!

He was the same to ride/lunge before he was turned away, so I don't think it's a fitness issue - he's only lunged for abt 15 mins before I get on.

Thank you.
 
Hack him out, let him see the world, then it won't seem as if its "work". As a warmblood, he's still a baby even if its only mentally. I'm a big believer in not schooling youngster in a confined space, and not a lot of lungeing, its boring for them.
 
I did wonder this, but we're on a cut through road and no one else hacks out.....I could ride and lead him from my hunter to get him out and about to start with I guess. He took a while to "get" lunging so I'm hoping with perseverance he'll "get" being ridden!

I'm not a fan of lunging/schooling either, I'm just trying to get him going well enough/safely enough to go hunting in March - just a very quiet day, hounds are meeting at home. He can learn the fancy stuff then!
 
Can u get him to trot inhand? Cos could someone run alongside you when you are on to get him learning he can move etc.
2 of the youngsters I have backed have been really slow to begin with but they both trotted when asked. After being turned away they came back much more forward and balanced.
 
I agree getting him out hacking will encourage him to think and go forward, could someone else ride your hunter and go with you? Long reining rather than lunging may also get him more independent as he will be in front of you not going around with you at the centre possibly relying on you too much.

My other thought is to do him more frequently twice a week is not much and he may forget from session to session, I have found sometimes young slower thinking horses can benefit from 2 short sessions a day, every day for a while to enable them to make progress, then a short break then more intense again, each horse is different in how they develop both mentally as well as physically.
 
Definitely get him hacking, and if possible, more often. Just a 15min pootle down the road and back - preferably in company so they can take the lead for trotting etc!
 
Thank you for your advice - he'll get done more often once it's light(er) in the evenings, I'm sadly at work full time :-(

No one else will ride my other horse, he's a bit...er....sharp?! He's not nasty at all, but does like to catch you out! I led Bertie up the drive before Christmas and he really walked out so hacking might be the answer.

I will try long reining - I think it might just be a bit of boredom and that he's quite slow to learn - I should have kept a diary about him, I think we had similar "don't want to move" issues with lunging when we first started, now he's like a pro!

Thanks!
 
Lots of good advice, just one thing i would add; for a weak, not very fit youngster 15mins on the lunge is quite a lot of work, and if the horse is safe and not inclined to try and bronc you off, then i would do a much shorter lunge session before riding.
 
Thanks daffy - he's in full time at the moment, so the lunge is only for a bit of "free time" as opposed to "proper" work - he has a little whiz round then I get on and he goes to sleep :-)
 
Have you tried, or if not can you, get someone to lunge you on him or perhaps someone else to sit on him whilst you lunge? Just to try to ascertain what/where exactly his lack of desire to go forwards stems from? I.e. if he lunges happily at the start of a session, then you change nothing except ask a rider to passively sit aboard whilst you carry on with lunging how does the affect him? This should give you a better of whether it is the rider or what/how the rider is asking for more that he struggles with. For instance does he perhaps not fully understand what the ridden aids mean? I.e. that leg means move or does he lack self awareness of how to move when the rider is aboard? (Not because the rider is too heavy! But because he will have to use and hold himself in a different way with one and how the rider’s weight will affect his own balance)

Alternatively is there something blocking him when ridden which is preventing him from moving forwards e.g the saddle?

If it is just enthusiasm, then I would agree that hacking can help to re-ignite this. If he is lacking an understand of ridden cues then go back a stage and use vocal aids combined with ridden ones to develop his understanding and/or use in hand and groundwork to teaching the ridden cues from the ground first.
 
My boy just stood when I got on, couldn't work out how to move his legs with me on! Hence I sat on him once before hacking him out following something else. Took him a while to 'get' trot too, we were left quite a way behind before be discovered the go faster option!
 
First thing they really must learn IMO is to go forwards when asked. Doesn't have to be in any great style, but they most go (& shortly afterwards they must learn to stop!) Can't bear horses not going forwards, and think this ends up being the source of most resistances in the long run.

When I break babies I tend to use lots of vocal encouragement if they require motivation. Also ''big" leg movements which gradually increase in strength until I get the required response. I would make as much noise and movement as required to get the response I wanted - and then massive fuss of the horse when it responds correctly. I don't mind if I can be heard several miles away and my legs have had to move like windmills - if you are logical and increase the pressure gradually the horse will sharpen up to the leg and voice quite quickly.

As much as I agree with hacking, for safety's sake, they need to 'go' when you tell them to 'go' as not a good situation to be out on the road and unable to move out of the way or get past something when required.
 
I have just had this with my rising 4 year old ish. I had my instructor cracking the lunge whip up the arse as she kept planting then bucking, and once she learnt she couldn't do this we have been hacking out lots more than going in the school. As a result when we do go in the school she is a million times better
 
RachelFerd said:
First thing they really must learn IMO is to go forwards when asked. Doesn't have to be in any great style, but they most go (& shortly afterwards they must learn to stop!) Can't bear horses not going forwards, and think this ends up being the source of most resistances in the long run.

As much as I agree with hacking, for safety's sake, they need to 'go' when you tell them to 'go' as not a good situation to be out on the road and unable to move out of the way or get past something when required.
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Agreed. I can see the point of getting the horse out and about, building enthusiasm, but it's not a substitute for really learning to go off the leg. You'd be surprised how many horses out there, even quite long into their ridden work, go along okay . . . right up until the don't. Also, while I do think young horses need to hack lots of people make nice young horses without that option so, no, it is not the ONLY answer.

I use the already learned voice aids (and again, the horse must be sharp off them, not kinda sorta do it when it suits) and then I, personally, teach horses about the dressage whip before I get on them initially and then use that if the horse is inclined to be sticky. Other people use different methods - RFs above, a wipwop, someone on the ground (I did a bunch of horses like this for a really good trainer who did not ride himself anymore so I was effectively a piece of equipment initially), a sound cue (not necessarily a voice cue) . . .different strokes for different folks!

There are two lessons a horse needs to learn - "come forward" and "go forward". They aren't connected and both are equally important. Hacking with another horse can be fine if you link up the "come forward" lesson - going with the other horse - with the "go forward" lesson - reacting to the riders leg - but there are other options.

I would agree that ideally you'd like him doing a few more sessions and less in each session but you can only do what you can do.:) Do you ride him two consecutive days? If so I'd leave out the longeing on the second day.
 
If horse is in full time @ moment he is most likely bored! - hacking is the way to go & to get him going off your leg you really are going to have to put the groundwork in Schooling. Back your leg up with schooling whip & by that I mean a tickle with it.. Also I am a firm believer that youngsters need consistent & routine exercise - tbh he isnt going to learn much in 2 sessions a week.

tractor said:
Thanks daffy - he's in full time at the moment, so the lunge is only for a bit of "free time" as opposed to "proper" work - he has a little whiz round then I get on and he goes to sleep :-)
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When I have been at your stage I have always had someone to lunge me on them. My thoughts are that the horse doesn't know legs mean go yet so I have a person lunging to manufacture the go whilst I give a leg aid. Normally takes 1 session but then I'll do it the following day to just to cement the fact the legs mean go.

At home we have plenty of off road hacking so I can hack pretty early on but I wouldn't be going out on the roads if I didn't have stop, go and turn established. Our roads are pretty busy though so I guess some people have super quiet hacking but still you never know what your going to meet.

No one else rides at my yard either so I have to brave going round the farm alone pretty early on. Do you have transport? I have friends at different yards who I box over to hack out with on my babies. That's 3 good things at once, trips out in the truck to new places, hacking with company and fun catching up with my friends!! Could that be an option?
 
That's easy- just make sure you have someone behind you with a lunge whip. When you say walk on, lunge whip taps his legs when he doesn't respond to a simple aid. Then cracks a little harder if he doesn't give a good sharp response . He 's got to go off one clear aid so train him to go forwards in the school in all upwards transitions until he responds correctly . Lunge whip always being there to crack him on if he's not responding .

With the hacking situation , do prefer them to go out in company and its a total pain trying to find people to ride with. But i ended up paying someone to come& ride my other horse. Advertised locally for a reasonable rider and paid £10 a time
 
Mine hacked and lunged fine but was a donkey being ridden after being just broken. It was a combination of being ignorant and finding it hard.

Solved it by having someone get behind him with a lunge whip everytime he ignored being asked forwards. The lesson was learnt very quickly and in 45 mins. Never needed it again!
 
Just a quick question if I'm allowed?

Is the only time he's out of his stable the two times a week you ride? Because if so he's going to be incredibly unfit and 15 minutes on the lunge is probably leaving him shattered!

I'm sure that isn't the case but just wanted to check before I agreed with everyone else about how he has to learn to go when you say go.
 
I agree that now is the right time for a lesson to the leg. My baby was similar in her first few school sessions so I carried a schooling whip, had someone on the ground with the lunge whip and spent a couple of sessions teaching her what go means. She picked it up and is now a lovely forward ride, you just have to remember that they don't know what leg aids mean unless you give them a clear lesson
 
Sorry for hijacking your thread OP but I have the same problem with my 4y/o loan cob. He is completely dead in the school, some days he's worse than others. I would hack him out more often if I could but he's so nappy out alone (just plants his feet and won't leave yard) and sometimes there aren't any other horses to go out with. Any suggestions?
 
Wow sorry everyone - been out and about all day and only just seen all of the replies!

I've read them all, but will try to summarise my reply :-)

At the moment I can only work him twice a week - this is as we have no lights and I don't get home until 7pm....so it's dark. He'll get more work once it's light in the evening. I only work him for 20 - 25 mins max, this is lunge and ride - I only lunge him the first day, second day I only ride him, probably for ten mins. I realise this isn't ideal, but I do my best for him and don't push him at all. He's big, he's 4 and I'm in no rush. He does leave his stable every day, I'm not that bad - he just can't go out in the field at the mo as it's flooded. He goes in a pen, on the walker for short periods and also gets hand grazed - he's on a nice yard so he gets a lot of fuss and attention during the day.

His saddle isn't ideal, I know that - it fits but it's not perfect for him. He was bought as a project, this year he will get his own things.

Today I walked him about the yard, we went to see things - he was more forward, he walked out in big huge strides as we went up the drive (away from home) - I think as someone else said above it might be a "balance with the numpty on top issue" and it'll sort itself out with time.

I'm really sad I can't work him more, please don't berate me for that....but thank you for everyone's help and advice/experiences. I've not broken my own before, so it's a bit of a fact finding mission - everyone has to start somewhere. I will take all of your comments on board. xx
 
OP- I definitely wasn't having a go! I was just asking I swear. If he's going on the walker then he isn't that unfit is he? He can definitely learn to go when you say go! It's a lesson I didn't cover early enough with my gelding and he drops behind the leg to this day and he's eight now :eek: With my mare I have been more adamant as it's a menace constantly chasing him.

This winter has been a right ******. we're all struggling with turnout and exercise. Well, I am I know. I've sent my little mare away to my friend for a few weeks to hack because I just can't as I work full time too :( I went to ride her yesterday but in the week I don't even see her at the moment but she gets stuffy in the school. Soon be spring though eh?!
 
Mine was backed this time last year and has been turned away since then. The work I put in before any ridden work meant he was sharp off voice aids - so once ridden would walk and trot when asked, backed up with teaching him what the leg meant. Leg aids were 'big and flappy' whilst talking to him as I had on the lunge - the leg aids then become quieter as he got the hang of what he was being asked. The work you put in on the ground is invaluable for when you start the ridden work.
 
Now, this is not a direct criticism OP, (but might be relevant to your situation) but I'm always slightly puzzled by the assertion that a horse cannot be exercised because it is dark. Especially when facilities include an enclosed school with an artificial surface. I get that it's not always the most pleasant experience plugging around in the dark/mud/wind/rain but I do wonder if some people have just blindly accepted the assumption?
 
Just a suggestion op, why not consider turning out till things brighten up and you can consistently ride? I know personally if my 4yo is only ridden twice a wk it would be like going back to basics especially if 5days off.
 
:-) I didn't think anyone was having a go, I just wanted to make clear that I'm trying hard for him - I think it boils down to him being a bit simple (and me too, which probably doesn't help) and me lacking the confidence to be strict with him.

I really just wanted to check if it was a "normal" phase or if I need to man up and be a bit firmer with him - I think from the comments that it's a bit of both, which is the response I needed - today, when he was walking out more, I was a bit firmer with my "go" and "stop" aids and it worked - I do bear in mind that if I stuck all of the days I've worked/ridden him together it's probably less than a month - so I don't think we're doing too badly.....

And I don't think I could have chosen a worse year to break a horse.....wet, cold, flooded......and currently snowing.......pfft. BUT - I keep telling myself, after all of the hard days, the "not quite sure" bits and the no doubt "meep can't stop bits" - I will hopefully have a smart competition horse that I can be proud of. x
 
Don't feel bad about only working him twice a week, there's nothing we can do about the dark! I'm in the same position with a youngster I backed in oct and is having a very sporadic approach to work while the arena is flooded!

Firstly I'd suggest riding him with someone else lunging, this way he can learn to balance you on top in a situation he's already secure with. Then when riding use lots of voice aids at the same time as your leg, if you don't get any response you need to back it up quickly with the schooling whip. As long as you always start of with a light touch he'll soon learn to go forwards responsively.

As for having fun with him without necessarily hacking, have you got the facilities to free school and try some join up? I had a youngster who would play in the school with me for ages, running, stopping, spinning and jumping, he loved it! Or you could try lunging over poles and a little jump, or set up a bit of an obstacle course to lead him through?
 
And ref the dark - at my old yard I used to ride in the dark all the time, so it doesn't bother me but this current yard closes when it's dark - the owners live on-site and it's the only rule....which is a pain when you're trying to break a baby but there are a million and one other benefits to the yard so I won't move them. :-)x
 
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