Advise please? Mare will not behave for the Farrier

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stacey_lou

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I need help with my mare.

When I got her she was a nightmare for the farrier and was a mission to get her to stand for farrier, he near fore was ok, still not great but ok to shoe and you could get atleaset 2 nails in before she'd slam it down, the far fore no chance once nail half way in and she'd slam her foot down and can be a danger to not only her self but the farrier and me to.

My farrier and i wonder if she has had a nail through her white line on the far fore in the past and so the memory has stayed with her or if indeed she hadn't been shod untill the week I bought her.

last week I had to have a differnt farrier out as mine couldnt make it for another 2 weeks and she needed them done this farrier took all her shoes off and out her nearfore on no problem and when he went to do the far fore no chance he couldnt tolerate her and so took her near fore shoe off and left her un shod and went home.

I dont know if either my normal farrier (who has been ever time that ive had her, had her since July 2009) is stronger and more tolelrance or she trusts him and so it getting better with him. I dont know

But now im worried when my normal farrier comes she'll play up and so I want some kind of calmer to ensure she is good as back up but whats the best one, when the last farrier come (the one who left her unshod) i gave her half a calmer (name began with an E) and it didnt have any effect what so ever.

And whats worse is my farrier cant come for another 2 weeks and so im not riding and am worried that shell get stones stuck in her feet.
Any suggestions or thoughts on this please?
 
I have similar problems with my mare and the farrier. We've gone back to basics with her, so she is currently unshod. I've been working on picking her feet up, tapping them with a hammer etc. Last time the farrier came she was sedated with Sedalin, which kept her much calmer.
Everytime the farrier is visiting the others on the yard he has agreed to just handle her legs & hooves. She is starting to trust him so fingers crossed next time we'll have front shoes on. Good luck.
 
I had a mare like this. She was 6 1/2 when we bought her and no-one had ever picked her feet up let alone be looked at by a farrier. We tried everything with her, got her to the point of being able to pick her feet out, which she was quite happy with. Had different farriers, but she wasn't happy with any of them, she really hated the banging in of the nails. In the end we went barefoot (with all 4 horses now) using an EP and she is much happier and has great feet. Worth thinking about.
 
A friend of mine also uses sedalin that you get from the vet with her mare. Is she ok for you to handle her feet? Or is it just men? Defo some farrier have more patience than others but at the end of the day if they get hurt from a naughty horse its their lively hood at stake.
A horse I use to look after was naughty for the farrier, he used to pull back we later found out he had scar tissue in his shoulder that made it uncomfortable for him to keep his leg up. If she has good feet I wouldnt worry about stones getting stuck just make sure they are picked out daily. If anything there may be less stones as the mud wont be stuck by the shoe. You could always try her shoeless and see how she copes
 
Please consider the possibility that your mare is actually in pain when the farrier works on her feet. It is amazing how many behavioural problems disappear when people stop shoeing their horses. Most of them take to shoeing with no problems, but for some it actually seems to hurt. If you are forced to give up shoes completely, plenty of us will help you manage the move to barefoot.
 
Thank you guys, Well she had back shoes put on for the first time last time and was good as gold but it is her far fore thats the issue yet my farrier hold her foot not so upright when he does it and she is genrally ok so I wonder if perhaps she has had past issues.

Everytime I pick her feet out I always bacng on her shoes with the pick and she is fine, her back is all good and she has no issues under saddle so joint issues have never occured to me.

The problem is for the work I am training her for she needs shoes. Maybe shes had trust issues and has built up trust with my regular farrier and didnt like the last one.

But i think I will try sedalin for next time as a back up. It sounds silly but can I ride her on a surface even though she has no shoes? Will she not get foot sore?
 
You should be fine to ride her on a surface unshod, and if her feet are good (and I assume they are cos she only had fronts on until recently) you should be able to hack her out too.

Just watch out for uneven\stoney surfaces, and take it slow to see how her feet cope. If you are going to be unshod long term you could always try Old Macs or similar for hacking out and hard ground.

I'd discuss the options with your farrier next time he comes out.
 
"The problem is for the work I am training her for she needs shoes."

Errrr - what work is she doing that mine and my friends' hunters and eventers don't?
 
"The problem is for the work I am training her for she needs shoes."

Errrr - what work is she doing that mine and my friends' hunters and eventers don't?
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This is slightly patronising! Lucky you and your friends' if your horses do not need shoes to Event. I had an event pony in the past who never needed shoes. However that doesnt mean that every horse can cope without shoes!

The fact that most horses are kept in grass paddocks or stables with rubber matting and then expected to be ridden on roads and stoney paths for just an hour a day mean a lot of horses with naturally thin walled feet are unable to be worked sufficiently without shoes. They just do not have the conditioning for it. Some Tb's and Wb types because of the nature of their feet, even with conditioning still wouldnt be able to cope with the extra pressure of being ridden. My mare was one such case. My farrier is a very good farrier and he will freely admit that nailing a heavy metal shoe on to a live organ is not ideal, however he said my mare was one of those sensitive, thin skinned thoroughbreds that would never have coped without shoes and be ridden.

Dont be horrible to OP because she needs to have shoes put on her mare to ride, your actually not offering any help whatsoever.

OP, sedaline is good. Your vet will have to provide it and ask them best how to use it for your mare. Also consider that as she is so specific with the one foot she doesnt like being shod that there could be physical reasons as to why she is misbehaving. Good luck, its a right pain having a horse that dislikes being shod.
 
Trust your horse - if she doesn't like being shod there will be a good reason. You just have to find it. Don't let it get to the stage of my latest rehab. Terrified of farriers with some very suspect hammer shaped holes in her chest.

Re Sedalin - I've always found it very variable. It works with some horses and not with others. Discussions with vet reveal that it is very unreliable.

Re thin walls etc. Some of these horses will inevitably find shoeing painful. A period barefoot complete with attention to diet, foot fall, etc will help build a stronger foot with a thicker wall more able to either work with a shoe or not. Whether you then decide to shoe will be up to you.
 
Quite, Firewell, it is the owner that needs the shoes put on in most cases because they cannot provide the right environment, work and diet for a barefoot horse. Your farrier has said exactly the same to you as mine did to me - nine months before the horse concerned competed unshod at affiliated eventing at 1m10.

No-one is being horrible to the original poster and I have already offered my help though you have obviously not read my previous post.
 
QR
I know it might sound strange, but does your farrier take all shoes off, shape all feet and then puts shoes on or does he do one leg at a time?
I'm asking, because one of my horses struggles with standing on three legs with all the feet prepped for shoes - she was behaving appallingly until I suggested doing one leg at a time and she turned into an angel to shoe...
 
He takes them all off preps them then shods them, but he doesnt hold her feet up and inbetween his legs like he does with most horses which even though shes not perfect she is better.

I did have my physio out and her joints and back ect are all good and there is no evidential problem. She moves well on the flat and jumps well so I cant see her having any real problem with her joints.

I wondered if perhaps (now dont laugh or call me stupid) if she hats the thought of being restricted to movement so when my farrier holds her foot properly and not squashed between his legs she is better. I have no isssue with picking her feet up or streching her legs ect its just when nails are added and I hate stressing her out but its for her own good.

I did wonder if perhaps leavbing her without shoes for a few weeks whilst still brushing hoof cream on to help harden them before re-shodding again would help her? Any thoughts on this please?
 
Putting hoof cream on her feet will not harden them up. Good diet is what will improve her feet as I have found to my cost. I tried all sorts of potions for hooves, none of them work. After going barefoot and looking into the nutrition side of things, it is very important that horses have a diet to support their feet. Barefoot or shod.
 
I just bought some Global Herbs Instant Supercalm for Belle as the farrier is due Wednesday morning. She only has front shoes at the minute and she plays up a little out of fear and then a bit out of naughtiness. We got the job done last time and have planned to do it in an area she is more used to with me holding her this time. I read good things about the supercalm so thought I would try it as an extra to keep her quiet.
 
I'm afraid that your mare is probably trying to tell you something. This is probably discomfort.

I find that horses who have been very bad for the farrier are often just great to be trimmed.

No horse really needs shoes - you can get along very well without them. I have 3 who do in all kinds of activities from driving to jumping, and some of my frirends have barefoot hunters and eventers. So they are not essential - but each to their own.

In the first instance if you are not happy to consider barefoot, then try shoeing her on a soft surface that yields - rubber matting or simply (what I do for trimming some horses) put a pad of camping mat under her other foot from the one that is being lifted.

Bob Bowker proved that the blood perfusion in a foot that is standing loaded on a hard surface goes down to almost zero - in reffect the foot goes to sleep - and that is uncomfortable for the horse. Standing the hoof on a cloth pad or soft surface allowed the blood perfusion in the foot to remain near to normal. That is often why horses are restless, or snatching, when they have one foot up. Usually more noticeable on the fronts.
 
firewell said:
horses with naturally thin walled feet

OP, sedaline is good.
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Juat wanted to add a comment to a couple of things you said Firewall.

I don;t believe any horse has naturally thin walled feet - thin walls are an ideopathic thing - we make them that way by shoeing, and by getting diet and environment wrong. It is interesting for me to watch the walls of my horses change as they progress through to their fouth year barefoot - both a change in the geometry of the wall and the quality of the wall.

On Sedaline - do you remember the older antihistamines, and the Actifed cough syrups? You'd be in that drowsy state - head nodding but catching yourself and being back with it before drifting again. Well I think that is what it is like for the horse on Sedaline that I've observed (put enough of it in my own lads). They are not really sedated as such, it is very variable, and in my opinion not a safe option - far better to try to understand the real problem and work through it.
 
My last boy went bare foot for years no problem but with my girlie I was a little worried about leaving her bare foot as we are training to event and I feel that having shoes with studs espically for eventing would be the safest option. Im going to have my farrier have a real good look at her feet next time and see if there are any obvious signs as to what could be wrong with this particular foot.

She has had a change of diet as my friend works for Allen and Page and always offers the best advice and her new feet is best to suit her so shes not got a bad diet.
 
Stacy - why don;t you join the UKNHCP forum and have a look there and ask these questions. Lots of help from experienced folks - many who are eventers and event barefoot and can share their eventing tales..

Studs are really not great for the horse, and risk injury to both the horse and you. Not woth the risk in my book.

Cptrayes, me and others meet in there - so we look forward to seeing you.
 
stacey_lou said:
My last boy went bare foot for years no problem but with my girlie I was a little worried about leaving her bare foot as we are training to event and I feel that having shoes with studs espically for eventing would be the safest option. Im going to have my farrier have a real good look at her feet next time and see if there are any obvious signs as to what could be wrong with this particular foot.

She has had a change of diet as my friend works for Allen and Page and always offers the best advice and her new feet is best to suit her so shes not got a bad diet.
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Allan & Page do some great feeds - their L Mix and the Sugar and Cereal Intolerance Mix are ideal, as is Fast Fibre. If your mare is on any of these then you're right - her diet is not bad. However all the other A&P mixes are far too high in sugar and starch and contain molasses, for example their Competition Mix has 40% starch, Power and Performance has 22% starch and even their Hacking Mix has 27% starch. Ideally you want to be feeding products that have a sugar/starch combined percentage of 10% or less.

I would agree with the others that your mare is clearly in discomfort being shod - imagine banging nails into something that is already sore, no wonder she's protesting. Whether you try barefoot or not if you alter her diet and cut out as much sugar/starch as you can you will find her feet improve noticably. Once her feet are healthier she will be much more likely to tolerate being shod. It's worth a try at least isn't it?
 
It sounds like this is mainly a trust issue so spend a lot of time handling her feet and if she seems really anxious next time the farrier come then just get her feet trimmed so that she learns he isn't going to hurt her then the following time she should be fine with having them put on. It also helps to get other people (particularly men) to pick up her feet every now and again.
I am sure she will cope just fine without shoes, especially on a surface. My horse developed an issue with the farrier and was shoeless and he coped really well, luckily he seems to be over it now.
 
I don't want to cause problems but......

I'd have been inclined to say leave her barefoot and see how she goes but if you really need shoes on you may need to have a work up done and see if there's a reason for her not wanting her RF done- my gelding has navicular and pedal ostitis and so he doesn't like the nailing on. Getting your Vet out and maybe xrays done would certainly rule these out.

The other option is just keep at it, be nice and gentle but insistant and take regular breaks, doing one foot at a time is also a good idea. Some horses prefer not to have their leg between the farrier's leg initially and this can be worked with.

Also (seriously, I'm not on commission!!) is keratex hoof hardener, this stuff is awesome! If you are looking for something to harden up your horse's feet while waiting for your regular farrier, then try it.

And last but not least... When you talk about feed, of course it is this that improves feet but seriously- how is a scientifically formulated feed with huge amounts of study and science behind it going to be wrong?? That's just silly, nobody makes horse feed that is bad for horses.

That concludes my two cents worth.... :cool:
 
Farrierlover said:
And last but not least... When you talk about feed, of course it is this that improves feet but seriously- how is a scientifically formulated feed with huge amounts of study and science behind it going to be wrong?? That's just silly, nobody makes horse feed that is bad for horses.

That concludes my two cents worth.... :cool:
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Would you feed something with 27% starch content to a laminitic?
 
Hi Mr Darcy ;) no I wouldn't, there are lots of things that I wouldn't feed to a laminitic but what is your point? The high starch feed isn't bad for horses, this horse isn't laminitic.
 
Thank you everyone for all your input. I was thinking what many people had said anyway and that is to leave her bare foot for a while and see how she gets on.

her feed from Allen and Page is Fast Fibre and Ride and Relax as at the moment this feed suits her very well, to many molases and sugar sends her loopy! lol and Im going to go out for a wonder this weekend and see what hoof treatments are on the market at the moment im thinking time for her feet to adapt and heal (if need be) may do her the world of good and im a great believer in not putting pressure on my horse and letting her work with me and not against me.

Thank you so much.
 
Farrierlover said:
Hi Mr Darcy ;) no I wouldn't, there are lots of things that I wouldn't feed to a laminitic but what is your point? The high starch feed isn't bad for horses, this horse isn't laminitic.
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My point is that high starch is potentially bad for all horses - the processes that cause laminitis apply to all equines, not just ponies or ones that have had laminitis before, and those processes begin with high sugar/starch diets.

Whilst this horse isn't laminitic yet she is clearly showing discomfort in her feet, has thin hoof wall and probably thin soles too. All these things can point to LGL. If that is the case then reducing the sugar/starch in the diet will very quickly relieve the symptoms.

That's just silly, nobody makes horse feed that is bad for horses.
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Just like no human food manufacturers make food that is bad for us... McDonald's is well known for producing food that is healthy and what about all those wonderful ready meals that Sainsbury's, Tescos and Asda make for us, stuffed full of salt and fat?
 
mrdarcy said:
My point is that high starch is potentially bad for all horses - the processes that cause laminitis apply to all equines, not just ponies or ones that have had laminitis before, and those processes begin with high sugar/starch diets.

Whilst this horse isn't laminitic yet she is clearly showing discomfort in her feet, has thin hoof wall and probably thin soles too. All these things can point to LGL. If that is the case then reducing the sugar/starch in the diet will very quickly relieve the symptoms.



Just like no human food manufacturers make food that is bad for us... McDonald's is well known for producing food that is healthy and what about all those wonderful ready meals that Sainsbury's, Tescos and Asda make for us, stuffed full of salt and fat?
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Ive had a look and my fast fibre is 5% and ride and relax is 15% starch I think thats ok. Right? My friend who works there was very sure this was the right feed for me.
Looking at hoof supplements at the moment to help her feet.
 
Just like no human food manufacturers make food that is bad for us... McDonald's is well known for producing food that is healthy and what about all those wonderful ready meals that Sainsbury's, Tescos and Asda make for us, stuffed full of salt and fat?[/QUOTE]


That's right- nutritionists purposfully put all that starch and sugar in feed so that ponies BEG their mums and dads to take them to the feed store and DEMAND that it be fed to them. Just like a woman I knew who fed her horse doughnuts because "he likes them"..... And how exactly she knew this?

Personally, and I know this is off topic (many apologies) but I would trust my qualified equine nutritionist to recommend feed based on what my horses are doing and their types/breeds. Starch is not bad for horses, peanuts are not bad for humans despite some people being allergic to them. Horses for courses.
 
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