Affiliated riders competing Unaffiliated?

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I went watching a friend today riding her first ever Prelim test (she came second and did a lovely lovely test) at an unaffiliated event. The person who won the event was a group 6 BD rider (competing Elementary) and was riding a youngish horse in the Prelim.

I have no issues whatever with affiliated riders taking young horses out to these kind of events, it is something I will do with my own youngster when he is ready, but what I do have a problem with is the rider not going HC. After all, under BD rules this rider would not be eligible to ride at Preliminary level, so why should they at unaffiliated???

This person won the class and ok, there is no prize money just a rosette, but my friend would have been first out of a class of 19 had this person ridden HC... She was so over the moon with 2nd, but I just found it a little unsportsmanlike and I would not be riding Prelim unaffiliated unless I went HC.
 
I don't entiely agree with you- by this reckoning, lots of people would be permanently HC, and unfairly. Fior example, by this reasoning, my sister competes at PN BE and wants to move up to Novice, but she rides 2 13.2hhs who are quite youngish and competes at 1' on one and 2' on the other. Should she go HC? I don't think so because the horse is YOUNG. If it were her proper horse, then of course...
 
I don't agree either as she was on a young horse she would beable to ride affiliated prelim in the open section so perhaps the unaff show should do a prelim with a restricted section for first time riders a lot shows round me do this so i have no problem taking babies out as quite often they don't behave but when they do you know you are ready to go affiliated and start having a show record.
 
But in BD, no matter what the horse's age, if the rider has competed at a certain level higher then they are no longer able to compete at Prelim... Surely that should stand for unaffiliated dressage competitions running under BD rules (which they should be doing as this is the reason no boots etc are permitted and the rider must salute with the hand not carrying a whip etc etc).
 
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I don't agree either as she was on a young horse she would beable to ride affiliated prelim in the open section so perhaps the unaff show should do a prelim with a restricted section for first time riders a lot shows round me do this so i have no problem taking babies out as quite often they don't behave but when they do you know you are ready to go affiliated and start having a show record.

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I didn't think she could ride in the open prelim sections in a BD competition because she is a group 6 rider. The open section is only available to riders in group 7 for example who have a horse with over 49 Novice points. That is what I thought the ruling was in Prelim, only group 7 and 8 riders.

This is the rule which I could well have got wrong (I confuse myself an awful lot with these rules...):
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22. Preliminary classes
The Open section of Preliminary Classes are open to anyone, member or non-member, registered
or non-registered horse, horse not to have gained more than 49 points. Those competing in the Open
section do not qualify for the Winter or Summer Regionals.
The Restricted section of Preliminary Classes is restricted to those who are eligible to qualify for the
Summer and Winter Regional Championships, i.e. members of BD, who are group 7 or 8, riding
registered or unregistered horses with no more than 49 points.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
i'm a group 5 rider have taken horses in open section as they don't have to be registered to do prelim and never been told different by organisers or bd?
 
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i'm a group 5 rider have taken horses in open section as they don't have to be registered to do prelim and never been told different by organisers or bd?

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Yep... sorry, as long as the horse has less than 49 points you can compete as any group of rider. See, learn something new every day!
 
I think its okay for affiliated riders to compete in unaffiliated comps, of course if that particular horse was very successful when competing affiliated at the same or higher level then it would be rather unsporting but with new/young/inexperienced horses or when moving up to the next level absolutely fine. With this particular scenario group 6 is not a high group and by no means makes someone a dressage expert; people can scrape to group 6 on one very ordinary horse... If being group 6 automatically makes that person tough opposition then your friend should be even more pleased with her 2nd rossie!
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A lot of unaffiliated competitions specify that the rider are not to have BD points above a certain level, but it is essentially up to the riders to self police this. And yes, open section of Prelim is open to any rider on a horse with fewer than 49 points, but you are not eligible for any qualifiers at open prelim.
 
It would be nice if pros rode HC but there are no rules to make them.
Only last month I took my 12hh pony to his first show of the year. It was a 65cms combined training class in Wiltshire and found myself competing against a well know local eventer (who has completed Badminton several times). She had two entered in the class and came 1st and 2nd. I know she is allowed to do this but it put my friend off competing as this was her first ever show.
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monkeybum - the specific situation you are referring to has been discussed in a very long and heated debate on here!
 
TBH Why people make such a big deal about a Rider's Group I have no idea... I have ridden a fair few advanced horses and regularaly ride a horse that has competed PSG but can do all the tricks but I don't compete them, they are normally sold very quickly. I have done loads of young horse classes over the years but on my rider record with BD I have about 10 results from my 1 horse and I am group 7 - am I more or less eligible to compete unaff prelim than someone who has trained one horse up to elem BD and has a few points at that level?

I was quite surprised to read this actually as the person who won that class is on a 5yo (it could have been their first ever test) and your friend is on an older horse that on their website says was professionally produced in Germany as a young horse and has been successfully training at PSG level?!?! I don't mean to be rude and I'm not having a go at all but that is FAR more unsportsmanlike surely?!?!

Please don't be offended but I think other people in the class would be more miffed with your friend than the affiliated rider on her young horse.
 
Just because someone is affiliated doesn't make them a different rider to being unaffiliated! I think that having some more experienced riders or horses mixed into an unaffiliated competition keeps the standard higher so that less experienced combinations have a realistic level to aspire to.
If you are only going out to win then dressage is the wrong sport to be in, if you are pleased with your performance on the day and feel you and your horse have done your best then it doesn't matter what level the opposition was!
 
Was thinking very much the same thing this morning. Livery yard down the road holds a few 'out of the field' (unplaited, smart casual dress) dressage competitions throughout the year. These shows are the highlight of many of the riders' competitive careers, particularly the w&t and prelim classes. So why on earth the same woman who has competed at PSG and is truly a superb rider with beautifully produced young horses feels the need to turn up to win everytime I don't know. Surely she can't get that much satisfaction from a rosette?
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Always a little incredulous that she doesn't go HC. It's the spirit of the rules, not the letter you know!
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Most riding club dressage competitions around here always have an open and restricted section.

In fact my riding club go to great pains to make sure everyone gets a rosette.

I think affiliated people competing young horses is no problem at all at competitions. I don't see why your friend would be upset with a second place and can perhaps now think about heading towards the affiliated route if they wished
 
It wouldn’t have occurred to me that there’s anything wrong in this instance. However there’s a number of horses with quite a lot of points competing unaffiliated whether it’s within the rules, bending them or actually breaking them, so for your own sanity I’d recommend not scrutinising the results. I think my trainer summed it up very well saying ultimately it’s down to our own consciences. My conscience says I won’t be going to some of the competitions we’ve qualified for, even though we would be within the rules, but I know other people wouldn’t have any scruples, and that’s just the way it is.
 
It wasn't really my friend who was 'miffed', she was absolutely thrilled
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Although I did specify a competition, this was not intended to get at anyone or offend. I was merely using an example to ask a question so never intended to be personal. If I have offended anyone, I can only apologise. There were some lovely horses there today and some genuinely lovely people
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I personally will go HC when I take my youngster out unaffiliated for his first few attempts before affiliating him more because I am not interested in the slightest at rosettes, more in how he goes and whether I can keep him calm. When Grace had some time off, I did an unaffil again and did that HC... That is my choice and by no means do I expect people to follow what I do
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I was merely asking a question because I was looking through previous results on the site and spotted quite a few people I know compete regularly BD... I know that you are only not allowed to compete in an unaffil if the prize money is over £25 so these people are completely in their right to take their horses.
 
I just wanted to conclude... I only have these views in an unaffiliated prelim. I think higher up the levels it is not so much of an issue for me (again, a personal thing) but I see unaffiliated prelim as a place where the grass root riders can start gaining an interest in dressage
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Thanks for those who have put their views...

SAMgirl... no offence taken at all. It is a public forum with people putting their own views and opinions. It would be a bloody boring place if we all had the same views wouldn't it
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I don't think anyone was offended JS, just people have different opinions... me i'm a rules are rules person, if your within the rules its fine if your outside the rules it isn't... makes life simple!

I have never complained about being beaten by a person that competes at a higher level than myself that is entitled to be in my class, I use to take pride if I did well against them
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I also dont agree. If the unaffiliated competition in question does not have rules regarding this then there's no reason why she cant do it. Just like many unaffiliated SJ shows round me dont mention BSJA winnings at all or anything so technically I would be perfectly within my rights to ride my BSJA horse round a 2ft class!!
 
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