Aged cob with no brakes - advice please!

[moosea]

Hi all,

I have a 20 year old cob who I have owned for 6 months.
He had previously hunted, but had been used mainly for hacking before I bought him.

The problem I have is that I cannot find the brakes on him anywhere!
It's not that he won't stop at all, just that he is so strong - not in a nasty way, he'd just like to get there faster than I would.

He is very much on the forehand. I have tried to lighten him but as it is virtually impossible to apply leg aids without getting more forwards movement I find that I cannot create and maintain impulsion on him.

An experienced friend rode him in a double bridle which really seemed to help.

I have ridden in a double many times in years gone by and am thinking of riding him in it again.

My questions are
How often would it be acceptable to ride in a double? Bearing in mind that he normally goes in a tom thumb and that I have pretty gentle hands.

What exercises should I be doing to lighten him and encourage him to engage his quarters - transitions in anything but walk - halt just fizz him up

He is quite stiff behind so i don't want to ask him too much all at once and need to take things slowly.

I should also point out that he is not unsafe - I would just like to feel that I have a little more control.
As far as he's concerned any leg means go forwards, so leg yield is a hard thing to achieve on him.

I have access to an outdoor arena and hacking.
Any advice appreciated

 

[Rose Folly]

Other people will advise you on schooling. The following might help with hacking.

I have a no brakes cob too. She has vastly improved since I made a conscious effort to relax on her (I'm getting decrepit so don't relish being tanked off with). I now virtually slouch in the saddle, ask her to go into canter simply by leaning forward a tad, with no leg aid, and slow her by gentle pull and release and my voice. She also has responded well to a hackamore.

She'd given me a big fright when I first had her by bolting down the village street (she had good reason to be scared but so was I!) After that I was edgy on her and she, like you say, wanted to go faster than I did. I also knew she had always galloped on any bit of grass in her previous home. It was only when a friend who normally rides Western took her out that I noticed the difference in her attitude to speed and willingness to stop.

Anyway it'sworth a try and I hope it helps.

 

[SusannaF]

The pony I rode as a teenager was similar – north of 20, strong neck, and only stopped if his opinion on the matter concurred with yours. We later discovered that whoever broke him in had broken his jaw and it had re-set badly. Which explained a lot. I occasionally tried to school him but mostly he was used for hacking, and Rose Folly's advice applied. However, he was definitely "winding down" and it sounds like you want to do more stuff with your new cob, and of course brakes would be essential for hunting.

 

[Old Bat]

I had a mare once who was not quite a hunter and not quite a cob (Actually draught x connie) with nightmare brakes and like Rose Folly found a hackamore best...I hope I have quite light hands as they can be abused as much as a normal bit, but the tank responded very well to it and it made hacking enjoyable again. It also gave her mouth a break for the more interesting things like team chasing and hunting when I went conventional again!

 

[LaurenM]

I've sort of remouthed mine as he wouldn't stop in a gag or a pelham. He's 15. I've had a professional help me and the difference is amazing

 

[Roxanne]

We are having real problems at the moment with very chunky 4yr old ID gelding. He is wonderful and light and very well schooled in the sand school and responds on a cotton thread with a snaffle. Out hacking on his own or with one other horse he is good too.

If we go out in a group of 3 or more though he is a total nightmare and sets his neck against the rider (who is my husband) and just goes. If we have a trot or a canter he will not go behind and it can be quite frightening because he just charges forward barging past everyone.

We have tried all sorts of bits and it sounds odd but this is not a bitting problem. My husband is very strong and can just about hold him but if I was to ride him in a group I doubt I could. This is definitely a problem of manners and training but we are at a loss because he is so good in the school or out with one other. How do you train him in a group?

It is getting now that we are not wanting to take him out with our friends.

I am really interested to hear what replies you get OP.

 

[comet&joe]

what kind of a bit do you have? 3 ring bit is what we use for a strong pony in our riding school. around 20 also and is a cob. Very heavy boy! He is also hard to turn but with the 3ring bit he is improving. And another cob at the RS is around 10-15mark and we have a flash for him as he is so lazy and then when he is cantering or jumping or going on hacks is impossible to stop!


L&C x

 

[redcascade]

Maybe you could try something with a waterford mouthpeice on a dutch gag or something similar. I know an 18year old cob who has one of these and it really helps, it stops him resting on your hands and trying to tank off!

 

[Azmar]

At his age he probably considers it's you who does not go at his speed! Maybe you just have to let him be balanced and go with the flow, hacking. It would not really be fair to try and change his way of going at his age and stiffnesses. It takes two to pull.......

 

[pip6]

When my old girl, god rest her beautiful soul, was over 20 I found you can't change them, but you can 'modify' them. Expect it to take time & small steps to change ingrained behaviours such as going certain speeds. Just as a different thought have you ever considered taking the brakes off? I've not lost the plot, but if he has had people pulling on his chops for 15+ years (as is likely with a downhill cob), his mouth may not be as soft as it was. Rather than putting him in stronger bits, go for a different form of control such as a hackamore (german version if you have any braking worries). As it works in a different manner to standard bits that he has worn, he may take more notice of it. Just thinking out loud.....

 

[Cuppatea]

can you try draw reins? They are great for engaging the back end and give that extra bit of brakes BUT can be picked up and put down when you need them so theyre not restricting the horse when you dont want them to.
I have a cob x mare that does exactly what yours does, on her own she is fabulous but in company she is a nightmare. The realaxing/slouching thing works with her too. I always ride her in the front out hacking and roll onto the back of my bottom pushing my legs slightly forward and my shoulders back - bit like tilting the seat back a bit while driving! Doesnt stop it but it helps cope with it!!!

 

[TheoryX1]

Sounds just like my old boy, who is 3 years younger. I do agree with some of the other posts on here, you more than likely wont change his behaviour, at 20 they can be pretty set in their ways. Mine is quite on forehand as well, despite the fact that he is well schooled. However, please also bear in mind that cobs were bred to pull carts etc, and needed to be on the forehand so they could throw all their strength into their collars. I hunt as well, and he can be pretty scary as he seems to stretch out flat at a gallop, which I now know is he is on the forehand. An old hunting friend told me that the best way way to handle a cob who acts like that is the following. If you are galloping at speed and you feel you are being run away with, drop your reins (keep hold of them obviously), and at the same time sit up in your saddle. Believe you me, it stops a cob dead in its tracks (almost). It takes guts to do it, but it seems to puzzle them and they slow down and think, by which time you can gain control. I dont know why it works, but it does.

With regard to bits, I have tried quite a few. For day to day schooling and hacking (not going out for a gallop), I use just an ordinary snaffle. However, if I do need the brakes big time then I really would recommend using a double bridle. As cobs tend to have fleshy mouths, I find that using two bits is a bit too far for him (forgive the pun). He works best in a mullen mouth pelham with a curb chain. With that in his mouth, I can stop no problem, plus he seems to work really well in it. I have also tried 3 ring gabs, but found that I got that horrible, what I can only describe as 'nothing' feeling in front, plus he used to set his neck against it and fight it. Have also found using a market harborough can help, but I dont like using them a lot.

Also, the fact that he has probably been allowed to know his own strength hasnt helped. Ihave one like that, and its taken me a long time to deal with it, and even though I do sometimes have the odd battle with him.

 

[Feathered]

I'm agreeing with the people who've said try taking the brakes off. But I know it can be scary.

When I got my girl she was in flash and martingale and on the bottom ring of dutch gag, and it was all pointless cos she would tank off something rotten! If she wanted to turn and go home she would just do it and there was nothing I could do about it, very scary!
A friend said you don't need a bit you need an anchor!

My revelation was that old saying "Ask a mare, tell a gelding and discuss it with a stallion" I think it should be ask a cob! Once I realised the gag etc was just me trying to force my will onto her, our relationship totally changed.

Now she's ridden in a loose ring french link snaffle, no martingale and no noseband at all and she's stops better than ever. I figured it out as if I say (i mean say with my actions) Stop now! she seems to think, Sod you puny human you can't stop me! But if I say Hey Lil shall we stop? She goes, yeah ok then.

I might not have made any sense at all there, sorry for waffling! short story.. Less is sometimes more.

 

[Apercrumbie]

An old hunting friend told me that the best way way to handle a cob who acts like that is the following. If you are galloping at speed and you feel you are being run away with, drop your reins (keep hold of them obviously), and at the same time sit up in your saddle. Believe you me, it stops a cob dead in its tracks (almost). It takes guts to do it, but it seems to puzzle them and they slow down and think, by which time you can gain control. I dont know why it works, but it does.

TX could you explain this a bit more? I think I'm being a bit thick. Do you mean drop the reins as in slip them to the buckle end? Or drop your hands? It sounds like an interesting technique so I thought I might try it when my Welsh Cob really tries it on.

 

[beeswax]

i also have a cob who can be a bit strong esp if i take him on, i.e. start to pull back on him or even shorten my reins so i use my seat instead and sit down and relax and i play with the reins give and take, give and take and he is as light as a feather and i couldnt ask for a nicer horse to ride. He can be a bit nervous sometimes so i really have to be relaxed on him and show him i am going to take care of him.

 

[lauraandjack]

Agree totally with the sitting up and loose contact approach. You are never going to win a tug of war against half a ton of carthorse, whatever you put in the mouth!

My cob will pull up from a gallop on the beach just by you sitting up and back, very little rein communication needed. I've also found, when doing fittening canter work, that if you sit forward he will go at his desired speed, if I want it slower then I have to sit upright, no amount of pulling in a forward seat will slow him down.

 

[Echo Bravo]

Try a Kineton noseband on him,as it works if he pulls,blocks off his breathing, they soon learn and you can go back to his normal tack after awhile, but if he's been hunted for sometime, he's learnt to get there the fastest way and will lean on the bit.

 

[Crackajack]

Ok....i did it another way....when he tanked off with his nose two inches off the floor rather than pulling i kicked and did not pick up my reins...

It took alot of guts and hard work to stay on and keep him going forward but eventually he realised its simply just not worth it tanking off as he then doesn't get to enjoy it as it becomes hard work!?
(He used to run into trees/fences anything to try and unbalance me naughty pony!An no it wasn't the tack or his back or anything else as i had it all checked prior)

Not always the way to do it but it worked for me and my Beastie - i didn't want to start moving my tack/bit up to a stronger level as i had tried this before and yes it worked for a couple of weeks but then it was almost as if he got used to it and then started tanking off again!

I used a kimblewick which was really good!

 

[moosea]

Hey thank you all for the advice so far.

he is apparently very bad in hackamore of any type, and also awful in an bit without a joint. Dutch gag made no difference to him according to his previous owner - who was the person who hunted him.

The main problem we have is on grass - it means go all out! ( even if you have to do 20 short bursts because you've forgotten that you're 20yrs old and not so fit and supple now!)

Hacking I think is more of a mental thing for me. Knowing that in the school I have little brakes and also that I have no lateral movement on the road is sooo strange for me.

I'll definitly try to drop the reins on the sod! that'll scare the heck out of him!! See how he likes being terrified!!

The kineton nose band I hadn't really thought of as he has quite a low head carriage and I thought that this would increase that?

Draw reins ( OMG I'm about to talk of the forbidden item! )
Well I've never used them and have the same concerns about them as using a kineton - don't want to lose any more neck in front of me. Also don't want to get him leaning on the bit anymore than he is.

I've got a double and am going to try that on him for ten minutes tomorrow.
Even if I just use double at local shows so that we can enter ridden classes next year.
We do in hand and he qualified for regional champs in his first show. I'd like to have a go in ridden - but the qualifiers are all on grass!

So come on guys - gimme some good exrecises to lighten his fore hand - preferably ones I can perfect in walk and trot !

Thanks again for all your replies

 

[brigantia]

When I got my girl she was in flash and martingale and on the bottom ring of dutch gag, and it was all pointless cos she would tank off something rotten! If she wanted to turn and go home she would just do it and there was nothing I could do about it, very scary!
A friend said you don't need a bit you need an anchor!

This has been my experience, too. I don't think stronger bits and nosebands are the best way of dealing--they could make the horse even stronger. A good trainer will be able to give you exercises to get him off the forehand and listening to you.

For a horse like this, it might be a good exercise to make him *walk* on grass, maybe with another steady horse, so he just doesn't see grass as an excuse to gallop off.

My mare used to be ridden in a Dutch gag with a flash noseband and she still used to tank off. Now she's ridden in a drop cheek snaffle, no flash, and a looser rein, and she's absolutely fine. I took her to the beach and she pulled up from gallop when I asked. I feel very safe on her now.

Sometimes the best thing is a good trainer to show us and our horses how to communicate with each other.