Ages for being fertile - help please - AP about???

Gingernags

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What is the youngest you have known a colt be to sire a foal? Not just hearsay but honestly known a colt manage to cover and impregnate a mare.

If a colt was gelded in March at 8 months, with only 1 ball down, one in the canal, both about the size of walnuts, and not at all developed - would you say it was possible?

Behaviour wise he wasn't showing any stallion like behaviour as such, just getting bolshy and pushy on the ground, but showing no signs of interest in the filly as a filly, he just galloped about with her a lot and they bit each other and play-fought. Filly was about 18 months, only a little welshy.

Was seen to jump on her one day - but I'll stress no tackle out - I'd never seen him master any control of it! As soon as he was seen doing that - the walnuts were whipped off - and because of surgery complications - he didn't go back out with them for several weeks.

Possible? Impossible?

Mare is either hugely fat (which I think is more likely) or at 12hh ish - owners think in foal to a 7-8 months at the time-will mature into 16hh- appie x of mine.
 

KarynK

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Earliest ive seen was a 14 mnth old Hackney colt who covered a shetland mare, Nice foal !!!

Here is a quote from Extension in answer to your question and in the absence of the font of knowledge AP.

"Stallions are considered to have reached puberty when an ejaculate contains 1 x (10 to the eighth) total sperm with a progressive motility of 10 percent. The mean age for this to occur has been found to be 67 weeks of age" (just over 15 months)

But there are some that say much less than that?
 

Gingernags

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As I say I just think the pony is grossly overweight, which for a 2yo little welshy is not at all nice for her.

If they really do think she's been "got at" - wouldn't you think they'd get her scanned to make sure? I mean, IF and a big IF she was - a 12hh pony mare in foal to a 16hh appie? How dangerous to go ahead?

Then if not, which I'm sure not, get the poor b*gger on a diet and stop having digs at me!
 

TarrSteps

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Ten months is the youngest "success" I've seen but that's pretty rare, especially if the colt is being kept naturally and not forced for TB sales or similar. It doesn't sound like your colt was particularly mature anyway. Still, strange things happen . . .
 

JanetGeorge

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[ QUOTE ]


Possible? Impossible?

Mare is either hugely fat (which I think is more likely) or at 12hh ish - owners think in foal to a 7-8 months at the time-will mature into 16hh- appie x of mine.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's possible - I DO know of an 8 month old colt successfully impregnanting a female he was running with. And the filly was old enough. One retained testicle would probably not reduce the chances. But it's probably unlikely - takes a VERY precocious colt to actually master the art at that age - whether he has active sperm or not.

The only way to know for SURE is to scan the filly - or is the owner doesn't want to do that - put filly on a diet!! If she IS pregnant, it will do her good to lose some weight anyway at this stage - if she's over-fat at foaling, it would make foaling difficulties far more likely!!

Maiden mares - and very young maidens at that - DO tend to have smaller foals (they need to!) so the risks associated with your colt's potential size won't be as great - but the risks of the filly being over-fat may still be high.
 

KarynK

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You could always send them a bill on the 1st October for covering fees! That might get them to scan/examin and shut them up !!!

Poor little thing being that fat at 2 cannot be doing her any good. I'm no expert on fertility but from what you describe with one retained and them sounding a bit underdeveloped when they were taken off I it think it highly unlikely.

Mind you I have seen very young colt foals taking an interest in their mothers back end and that of other mares when they are in season, even climbing on their mums, but they seem to settle as they get a bit older MEN!!!!
 

Gingernags

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He was on the small size at that age, he wasn't getting cresty and mature. I know some people do leave them longer to be cut for just that reason but Finn was still a very gangly baby at that point.

The pair of them used to play fight all the time, biting legs and necks and racing about, nothing in it at all. He was seen to jump on her ONCE but in play not with any intent, and that was it, off came the fuzzies.

I think I'll give the vet a ring and ask what she thinks, after all, she won't have forgotten his gelding given on how wrong it went after. I'm sure she commented at the time about being undeveloped and therefore straightforward (famous last words)

Mind you thats the second part - if the filly was in foal - what are my rights seeing as it would be effectively half mine?
 

magicgirl

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I knew of a colt and filly who were weaned together and the filly foaled the following January so they both would have been around 8/9 months old at conception.
 

KarynK

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[ QUOTE ]

I think I'll give the vet a ring and ask what she thinks...
Mind you thats the second part - if the filly was in foal - what are my rights seeing as it would be effectively half mine?

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Vet should have an idea, you could also sneak around with one of the equine urine testing kits!!!

Thats an interesting point on if there was a foal! I suppose you could demand a stud fee or pay them a bit for the "loan" of the mare and keep the foal if you wanted it. Thing is there was no breeding contract and there was no expectation of pregnancy when they were together so probably you don't have any parental rights!!!!
 

rabatsa

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From memory the foal would belong to the mare owner. You could try claiming a stud fee but they could counter claim for damage and loss of use, extra feed and associated vet costs. Not worth the hassle in my opinion.
 

Gingernags

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[ QUOTE ]
they could counter claim for damage and loss of use, extra feed and associated vet costs

[/ QUOTE ]

They could try


She's out, never seen a vet, and does nothing... and doesn't get fed.

You'd think if they seriously thought she was, that they'd scan her just in case - what if she was and it was twins? Plus as I say, a 12hh mare and a 16hh "sire"? Its awfully risky. We were talking about it at the yard today, and people forget its not Finns size now or then, its his mature height...
 

Gingernags

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Ah well, I guess we'll be waiting to see what happens in February!

If they mention it again I'll tell them if they really think she's in foal they'd better get her scanned to make sure otherwise they may come down one morning to a dead filly and foal... because lets face it, at 12hh and very finely built and not even 2 years old, I wouldn't risk it.
 
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